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imweasel wrote:I guess folks better not take razorbacks for sm tactical squads in case of dawn of war deployment. Makes 'em kind of useless.

Not a problem, the unit is deployed when it is placed on the board. So when you deploy (i.e. The turn that they come in from reserves.) You combat squad the unit. So by rights, you state you are combat squadding it and 5 go into the razorback and 5 hump it in on foot.

augustus5 wrote:"The Decision to split the unit into combat squads, as well as which models go into each combat squad, must be made when the unit deploys."

I think the rules as stated in the SM codex are quite simply stated. I also think that a lot of people are confusing what deployment is. A deepstriking or reserve unit "deploys" on the turn it enters play.

This brings up another question though. If you have a unit in reserve that is to be deployed as 2 combat squads, do you roll seperate reserve rolls each turn until they deploy or just a single roll for both squads?

Reguardless of what the single unit intendeds to do it is still a singular unit which you only roll one reserve roll for. When it deploys (by being placed on the table) you then Inact your descion & combat squad the single unit that now are two units for all game pursposes.

As for deploying units in reserves, you said it brillaintly yourself - the turn it enters play. When its sitting on your side-table it doesnt count as deployed/deploying/about to deploy. When you sucessfully roll your reserve roll thats where things change.

So then after making a successful reserve roll, a 10 man terminator squad may then choose to deploy as 2 5 man combat squads.

By the language used in posts above, a terminator squad in a Land Raider may also split into two squads after exiting the vehicle. This is because the rules for disembarkation use the word 'deploy' as well.

One can carry things too far when taking a single word as the basis for an argument.

Democratus wrote:By the language used in posts above, a terminator squad in a Land Raider may also split into two squads after exiting the vehicle. This is because the rules for disembarkation use the word 'deploy' as well.

One can carry things too far when taking a single word as the basis for an argument.

I think you will have a hard time fitting 10 Terminators in a Land Raider though.

Grog are you trolling us? The majority is:

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Webbe wrote:

Democratus wrote:By the language used in posts above, a terminator squad in a Land Raider may also split into two squads after exiting the vehicle. This is because the rules for disembarkation use the word 'deploy' as well.

One can carry things too far when taking a single word as the basis for an argument.

I think you will have a hard time fitting 10 Terminators in a Land Raider though.

True. But 10 tacticals in a Land Raider could split into combat squads whenever they leave a LR. They could even be a single unit during the game, board the LR, and then split when they "deploy" by disembarking.

True. But 10 tacticals in a Land Raider could split into combat squads whenever they leave a LR. They could even be a single unit during the game, board the LR, and then split when they "deploy" by disembarking.

No. No. No.

You cannot split into combat squads when disembarking from a LR or any other "normal" transport. The ONLY vehicle that you can combat squad out of is a Drop Pod (and even DA can't do that), because of a special rule that Drop Pods have which allow it.

Im using the word "deploy" over the word/phrase "deployement" in the context of putting units onto the table when they first enter play. As per the Combat squad rules.

Yes you can take one-word arguements too far. If, however, you use/refer one-word specific arguments (I aint agreeing that im guilty of this) in referance to the rules in question it becomes quite clear you cant infact do silly things like combat sqaud 10 tactical marines from a LR.

Enough people get the rules concidering the replies wittnessed by this thread, IMhO.

I would whole-heartedly disagree with the line of arguement that says a unit of tactical marines in a land raider may split into combat squads when exiting the land raider. Those models already deployed when they were placed on the table. A land raider is not a dedicated transport for tac squads anyway so at some point they would have had to be on the table to begin with before embarking.

For the sake of arguement let's pretend that a land raider is a choice for a transport for a tac squad. If you held the tac squad and their transport (LR) in reserve, then upon making the reserve roll, if you choose to combat squad them out then 1 squad would be embarked and the other would be on foot.

My question as far as the RAW goes is if you are going to combat squad a unit that you hold in reserve, do you have to say that during the initial depoyment phase before turn 1 of the game.

For your last question, I would say no, Augustus5. Since the decision is made when the unit "deploys", rather then deployment at the start of the game.

So roll your Reserves, and if successful, declare your decision to Combat Squad them after all Reserves rolls are complete.

You cannot split into combat squads when disembarking from a LR or any other "normal" transport. The ONLY vehicle that you can combat squad out of is a Drop Pod (and even DA can't do that), because of a special rule that Drop Pods have which allow it.

and

I would whole-heartedly disagree with the line of arguement that says a unit of tactical marines in a land raider may split into combat squads when exiting the land raider.

Jesus people. Read more than one post. He *knows* that, and was using that as an example of absudity to prove the point.

Core, I think if you would have read the rest of what I said, instead of the first line of my post you'd see I made a well thought out arguement. Whether or not I'm right is in the air I guess.

I don't really understand what your post adds to this discussion.

Green Blow Fly wrote:Grog are you trolling us? The majority is:

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Ha Ha..yeah look what I started.

Anyway it's obvious the original debate wasn't going to get resolved to my satisfaction (I.E I don't agree with the majority) so I kinda stopped posting.

I'm not one to beat a dead horse.

GG

Lokk lokk 3 lokke boxx.

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I'm kind of amazed this thread has gone on so long. This issue isn't rocket science and the RAW do pretty clearly establish how this all works:


SPLITTING COMBAT SQUADS DURING PRE-GAME DEPLOYMENT

Before the game begins, during the 'Deploy Forces' (rulebook pg 92) a player can 'deploy' units onto the table. Obviously if a player is deploying a unit that is capable of being split up using the combat squads rule, he can do so at this point and deploy them in separate locations as stated on page 51 of the SM codex.

Alternatively, "players may choose not to deploy one or more of the units in their army and instead leave them in reserve" (rulebook pg 94). Obviously if a unit is put into reserve and not deployed then it is not being deployed and therefore may not be split at this point using the combat squads rule.


SPLITTING COMBAT SQUADS WHEN DEPLOYING FROM RESERVES

There are two main ways that units deploy from reserves: moving on from a table edge and deep striking onto the table. Both situations clearly define that units arriving this way are being deployed (rulebook pgs 94-95).

The combat squads rule allows units that are being deployed to be split up and again, it tells us that these units can be deployed separately (SM codex pg 51). So this means that after rolling to see that the unit is available from Reserves, the player would then decide whether or not to split the unit up into combat squads and if so, they would be deployed separately (i.e. Each combat squad would deep strike on its own, as otherwise we wouldn't be allowed to deploy them separately).


COMBAT SQUADS DEPLOYING FROM RESERVES INSIDE TRANSPORT VEHICLES

Page 94 of the rulebook states that you must declare if a unit which is being put into reserve will be arriving inside a transport. Once you have made this declaration it means that the unit MUST arrive on the table inside the transport. Page 66 of the rules states that a transport may only carry a single unit (plus any joined ICs). So when a unit and its transport are set to be deployed from reserve the unit CANNOT be split into combat squads as doing so would mean the transport would be carrying more than one unit and you CANNOT pull one of those combat squads out of the unit because you have declared that the unit would be arriving in the transport.

As such, it is not possible to have a unit arrive from reserves inside a transport and also split that unit via the combat squads rule.

The one exception is with the Drop Pod, which has a specific rule which allows a unit to be split AFTER disembarking from the Drop Pod (SM codex pg 51). Unfortunately this exception is for Drop Pods only.

augustus5 wrote:Core, I think if you would have read the rest of what I said, instead of the first line of my post you'd see I made a well thought out arguement. Whether or not I'm right is in the air I guess.

I don't really understand what your post adds to this discussion.

Because my point is that your reading comprehension is for crap.

Of course your argument is "well thought out", it is like saying rain is wet. No one is saying you can split upon leaving a landraider.... you are arguing a moot point.

As I said already (and you skipped right over) Democratus was using that as an absurd example to show the flaw in the previous thought process.

Thanks Yak /bow

DAaddict wrote:

imweasel wrote:I guess folks better not take razorbacks for sm tactical squads in case of dawn of war deployment. Makes 'em kind of useless.

Not a problem, the unit is deployed when it is placed on the board. So when you deploy (i.e. The turn that they come in from reserves.) You combat squad the unit. So by rights, you state you are combat squadding it and 5 go into the razorback and 5 hump it in on foot.

But you can't do that at the beginning of the game as that would be 3 units of troop choices.

Only choice at the beginning of the game is to cs your tactical squad and place the dedicated transport in reserves.