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2009/02/28 03:39:53
Subject: DE nightshields & Meltas
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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Sorry was editing my post when you replied, Ghaz.
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2009/02/28 03:47:56
Subject: DE nightshields & Meltas
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Lieutenant General
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It still does not say you measure at that point, just that the model resolves his Death or Glory attack at that point. You still have nothing to say that the weapon is at 0" range.
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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2009/02/28 04:03:28
Subject: Re:DE nightshields & Meltas
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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And, normally you would be correct. The general rule does not say to measure; Most weapons don't need to reference the distance beyond making sure the target is in range. DOG assumes that they are, because the range is contact. However, Melta weapons require you to reference the range again when resolving the attack So yes, DOG never says to measure, but the melta rules (BGB pg. 32) certainly do. The Specifc (melta) overrides the general (DOG). The attack is made AFTER the morale test is passed (at contact, or 0 range). This same argument applies to the conversion beamer; It's possible to be Tank Shocked from 24" (str 8) but the Morale test and DOG attempts are not made until contact or 0 range (str6). These weapons REQUIRE a measurement of range when fired.
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2009/02/28 04:32:01
Subject: DE nightshields & Meltas
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[ADMIN]
Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Hymirl,
If you do not wish to respond to someone's arguments in a polite fashion, then please refrain from responding to them.
You also always have the option of using the 'ignore' function on a user you don't care for.
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2009/02/28 04:49:47
Subject: DE nightshields & Meltas
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Lieutenant General
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And since the Death or Glory rules don't say to measure, then you don't So therefore range (and half range) is inconsequential. Thus you never get any 'range' bonuses because you don't use range.
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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2009/02/28 05:04:40
Subject: DE nightshields & Meltas
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Missionary On A Mission
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But what about the picture on page 68 on Tank Shock. "The Predator moves until it is in contact...." Can you not logically prove that base to base contact is less than "half range or less?" I know that this does not work for nightshields (Which I agree with you Ghaz), but for regular DoG attacks its makes sense.
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2009/02/28 05:07:43
Subject: DE nightshields & Meltas
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[ADMIN]
Decrepit Dakkanaut
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AdeptSister wrote:But what about the picture on page 68 on Tank Shock. "The Predator moves until it is in contact...." Can you not logically prove that base to base contact is less than "half range or less?" I know that this does not work for nightshields (Which I agree with you Ghaz), but for regular DoG attacks its makes sense.
I think that's how everyone most plays it (myself included), but I do think Ghaz is right. DoG attacks do not have a range associated with them and as such technically a melta weapon should therefore never get its range bonus in such an attack.
But outside of a situation involving a Night Shield I don't think you'd encounter to many people wanting to play that way (at least I haven't found anyone yet).
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2009/02/28 05:25:58
Subject: DE nightshields & Meltas
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Missionary On A Mission
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Yakface,
Thank you for the quick response. Its this addressed in the INAT FAQ? Or is this a really a non-issue?
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2009/02/28 05:32:04
Subject: DE nightshields & Meltas
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[ADMIN]
Decrepit Dakkanaut
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AdeptSister wrote:Yakface,
Thank you for the quick response. Its this addressed in the INAT FAQ? Or is this a really a non-issue?
It's not. We looked at the wording of Night Shield vs. Meltas but agreed that it seemed pretty clear when you actually took the time to read the rules for both.
However, no one considered the ramifications of DoG vs. Melta, so that wasn't addressed. Likely in the next iteration.
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2009/02/28 05:35:10
Subject: DE nightshields & Meltas
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Missionary On A Mission
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Thanks Yakface and everyone in the Thread.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/02/28 05:35:43
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2009/02/28 05:59:04
Subject: DE nightshields & Meltas
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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yakface wrote:I think that's how everyone most plays it (myself included), but I do think Ghaz is right. DoG attacks do not have a range associated with them and as such technically a melta weapon should therefore never get its range bonus in such an attack.
So then RAW, a conversion beamer has no STR in a DoG? Flufflwise I could see this being a case, but RAW there's no minimum range. How would you determine the results of a DoG with the beamer?
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2009/02/28 09:06:30
Subject: DE nightshields & Meltas
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Stealthy Space Wolves Scout
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Lordhat wrote:yakface wrote:I think that's how everyone most plays it (myself included), but I do think Ghaz is right. DoG attacks do not have a range associated with them and as such technically a melta weapon should therefore never get its range bonus in such an attack.
So then RAW, a conversion beamer has no STR in a DoG? Flufflwise I could see this being a case, but RAW there's no minimum range. How would you determine the results of a DoG with the beamer?
How do you know how many hands a power weapon use?
Simple answer, there are no answer.
GW is not a game company, it's a miniature company. You are a miniature collector, not a gamer. GW simply don't write rules or give customer support like a game company.
You have to make your own rules all the time, the rulebook is only a guideline.
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In one game turn an Imperial guardsman can move 6", kill a few guys with his flamer, assault 6", kill two more guys with his bayonet, flee 12", regroup when assaulted, react 6", kill one more guy with his bayonet and then flee another 12".
So in one game turn an Imperial guardsman can move 42" and kill more than 5 people. At the same time a Chimera at top speed on a road can move 18"... |
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2009/02/28 19:53:54
Subject: DE nightshields & Meltas
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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Webbe wrote:
How do you know how many hands a power weapon use?
Except you don't NEED to know how many hands a weapon uses, this bit of information has NO bearing on the functionality of the weapon, barring codex specification. And once again, I would like to re-iterate that although the DoG has no instructions to check the range, the Melta-weapons and C.Beamer certainly do. It's as much a function of the process as the Str Characteristic is. DoG says: "The attack may either be a shot from a weapon carried by the model, or a single close combat attack using any weapon carried, including grenades. Whatever form it takes, the attack hits automatically so resolve the hit against the vehicle's...." (Empahsis mine)
Resolving the shot from a melta weapon includes determining at what range the weapon is at the time it is fired. You can't just skip that step when using these weapons, as it is inherent to the resolution of the attack.
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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