Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I agree that the number of souls believing in him will make the Emporer a god when he finally dies (we'll see if that happens before we all do). Chaos encompasses everything, including order. You imperial lapdogs are all following a future chaos god in disguise and loving it. Bwahahahahaha!

But back on topic. The army sounds cool, go for it!

thalor

Yeah, he's probably a Chaos God made manifest. But his "daemonettes" are hotter. Hand me a lasgun, I'll gladly lay my life on the line if I get to fight next to the Adepta Sororitas.

chaplaingrabthar wrote:'E's not a God, 'e's a very naughty boy


/Python'd

If its not a personal question... are you a virgin?

(for those that think this is an insult its a reference from later in the scene in the film chaplaingrabthar was talking about)

Some people in this thread seem to think that Chaos=Warp, which is not true. Chaos lives in the warp, but it is not the warp. There are warp creatures that are not chaots creatures.

Anyway, I am off to read Slaves to Darkness and The Lost and the Damned so I can start quoting some fluff next time this comes up.

I like that Emperor, eh plays with the Astronomicon and doesn't afraid of anything.

I have a theory. I think the Emperor is a Chaos god, and I think I know which one.

I think the Emperor is actually Malal!

The Emperor was the first psycher (at least the first to gather any recognition). Because of his unique abilities he was able to gather the strongest followers, the best scientific experts and so forth around him. They then formed a great empire that managed to steam-roll over all other human nations throughout the galaxy.

When the Emperor was killed, he was effectively killed. Any semblance of consciousness or identity or will that he had was lost. The higher ups in the Imperium stuck his vegetative corpse into a machine so that they could harness his psychic energy... but even that begins running out every now and again so they are CONSTANTLY hunting down psychers to drag kicking and screaming to sacrifice to the giant warp-energy battery so jumpstart it again.

The "emperor" is really nothing more than a big warp energy battery that the higher ups in the imperium can point and use however they feel like doing so. This is typically used to create warp tunnels and communicate across the galaxy, but it can be used in other ways. But absolutely anything the Emperor seems to do is really being done by some chancellor in the imperial palace wielding the energy mass known as 'the emperor'.

This was clear from the very inception of Warhammer 40K, but the way that the imperials talk about the emperor, one can see how a reader might get confused.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Hobgoblyn wrote:The Emperor was the first psycher (at least the first to gather any recognition). Because of his unique abilities he was able to gather the strongest followers, the best scientific experts and so forth around him. They then formed a great empire that managed to steam-roll over all other human nations throughout the galaxy.

Right.

When the Emperor was killed, he was effectively killed. Any semblance of consciousness or identity or will that he had was lost. The higher ups in the Imperium stuck his vegetative corpse into a machine so that they could harness his psychic energy... but even that begins running out every now and again so they are CONSTANTLY hunting down psychers to drag kicking and screaming to sacrifice to the giant warp-energy battery so jumpstart it again.

The emperor instructed dorn to put him on the golden throne, he wasn't just stuck there by the high lords.

The "emperor" is really nothing more than a big warp energy battery that the higher ups in the imperium can point and use however they feel like doing so. This is typically used to create warp tunnels and communicate across the galaxy, but it can be used in other ways. But absolutely anything the Emperor seems to do is really being done by some chancellor in the imperial palace wielding the energy mass known as 'the emperor'.

I can't think of any background material that suggests this. The emperor guides the imperium through visions, blessings, miracles, etc. and I don't think that in 40k a bunch of psychic energy can even be controlled in the way you suggest. I really don't get why you would think this as it is never suggested.

This was clear from the very inception of Warhammer 40K, but the way that the imperials talk about the emperor, one can see how a reader might get confused.

I think it is you that is confused, because you are referencing things that go against all 40k's fluff. Unless you have something to reference, go ahead.

Hobgoblyn wrote:
The "emperor" is really nothing more than a big warp energy battery that the higher ups in the imperium can point and use however they feel like doing so. This is typically used to create warp tunnels and communicate across the galaxy, but it can be used in other ways. But absolutely anything the Emperor seems to do is really being done by some chancellor in the imperial palace wielding the energy mass known as 'the emperor'.

If the Imperium can forget how to make a dreadnought I doubt they can manipulate the Emperor's powers to do anything beyond what the Emperor designed it to do (provide the Astronomican).

halonachos wrote:The only god that exists is the Emperor because you can visit him.

SIGGED!

From White Dwarf #93, the very first thing printed about Warhammer 40K:

For more than a hundred centuries the Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the Master of Mandkind by the will of the gods and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium to whom a thousnad souls are sacrificed every day.

To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable. This is the tale of these times. It is a universe you can live today if you dare - for this is a dark and terrible era where you will find little comfort or hope. If you want to take part in the adventure then prepare yourself now. Forget the power of technology, science and common humanity. Forget the prooise of progress and understanding, for there is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter and the laughter of thirsting gods.

But the universe is a big place and whatever happens, you will not be missed...

Now you tell me... after reading this do you get the impression that the Emperor is a living person full of love and hope, watching over every human with his own will and desire to help progress the future of humanity as a gracious, loving, great god....
Or do you get the impression that the Emperor is a giant psychic energy furnace?

Later rulebooks further explained how the golden throne worked, how psykers were used as human sacrifices, how only the High Command ever claimed to hear the Emperor or 'understand his will'... it doesn't take much to piece the picture that is being painted together.

Hobgoblyn wrote:

For more than a hundred centuries the Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the Master of Mandkind by the will of the gods and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium to whom a thousnad souls are sacrificed every day.

To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable. This is the tale of these times. It is a universe you can live today if you dare - for this is a dark and terrible era where you will find little comfort or hope. If you want to take part in the adventure then prepare yourself now. Forget the power of technology, science and common humanity. Forget the prooise of progress and understanding, for there is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter and the laughter of thirsting gods.

But the universe is a big place and whatever happens, you will not be missed...

Strange... That's kinda what the fifth editon rulebook has written down on page 1...

Dang, I was kidding with the 'lack of faith' thing, but this is starting to sound more and more like you're presenting your opinions as fact. Bad form. Bad form indeed.

Hobgoblyn wrote:Now you tell me... after reading this do you get the impression that the Emperor is a living person full of love and hope, watching over every human with his own will and desire to help progress the future of humanity as a gracious, loving, great god....
Or do you get the impression that the Emperor is a giant psychic energy furnace?

Later rulebooks further explained how the golden throne worked, how psykers were used as human sacrifices, how only the High Command ever claimed to hear the Emperor or 'understand his will'... it doesn't take much to piece the picture that is being painted together.

Later books have the emperor sending people visions, communicating with the leader of the brides of the emperor, creating a warp storm, and other such things. This gives the impression that yes, he is conscious. In fact your quote does not give me the impression that the emperor is brain dead and doesn't do anything, it gives me the impression that 40k is very grimdark and that the emperor is fed souls to stay alive. Very basic things in 40k. How does this = the emperor is dead, the high lords control his power, etc etc conspiracy theory. I just don't see any connection at all.
Of course it doesn't give the impression that the emperor is living, or full of hope, or watching over everyone. 40k is obviously not like that. But just because 40k isn't all happy and hopeful doesn't mean that the emperor is brain-dead or merely a funnel for psychic energy. He still has sentience, as I showed by the stuff he does, but there's no way that he is just manipulated by the high lords. If the mechanicus, who know the most about technology, don't even understand how to make sure the throne keeps functioning as it has been, then how are the high lords, who know less about technology, supposed to maintain a device to manipulate psychic energy on that scale and precision (something that has never been suggested in 40k) let alone build it when the emperor, the most brilliant mind pretty much ever, just build the throne.

Hobgoblyn wrote:From White Dwarf #93, the very first thing printed about Warhammer 40K:

For more than a hundred centuries the Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the Master of Mandkind by the will of the gods and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium to whom a thousnad souls are sacrificed every day.

Now you tell me... after reading this do you get the impression that the Emperor is a living person full of love and hope, watching over every human with his own will and desire to help progress the future of humanity as a gracious, loving, great god....
Or do you get the impression that the Emperor is a giant psychic energy furnace?

Actually, since they're using the present tense, I'm cool with the Emperor still being alive, rather than an enormous f***-off flashlight.

I have to say that Hardiharr's first post has one of the coolest interpretations of the Emperor I have ever heard. I've been trying to think of this myself as I had always considered him a god but I couldn't think of any way to show any distinction between him and everything else.

Actually he gives me the impression that he is a nice, nice god who would tuck you in at night if he could move his arms and actually cared about you.

halonachos wrote:That still does not prove that they exist, neither do the chaos gods.
The only god that exists is the Emperor because you can visit him.

could be horus on the throne, and the emperor hated religion so he would be displeased with your ignorant following him as a god, and theirs notmor e proof he's a god than gork and mork, and saying that their are mor efollowers of the emperor than their are orks is simply laughable, there are more orks than there are any other race in the galaxy (and they are also outside the galaxy 2 (except possibly nids since most of their bulk is outside the galaxy) not to mention the fact that allot of humans ahave turned to chaos or something else like a mutation of the emperor's worship or some native feral religion, so as far as ork's being less numerous than the emperor's cult followers; WRONG WRONGEDY WRONG WRONG WRONG.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

Warboss Spleenstaba wrote:
could be horus on the throne

Rogal Dorn was with the Emperor after his battle with Horus, and built the Golden Throne according to his instructions; I doubt there was any kind of mix up.
And because I know someone will say it, I doubt the Primarch who's descendants include the Black Templars would be corrupted by Chaos at the last minute.

Darksword wrote:

Warboss Spleenstaba wrote:
could be horus on the throne

Rogal Dorn was with the Emperor after his battle with Horus, and built the Golden Throne according to his instructions; I doubt there was any kind of mix up.
And because I know someone will say it, I doubt the Primarch who's descendants include the Black Templars would be corrupted by Chaos at the last minute.

allot of humans ahave turned to chaos or something else like a mutation of the emperor's worship or some native feral religion,

It's not as common as you seem to think; the Imperials keep a tight leash on their people.

Warboss Spleenstaba wrote:

Darksword wrote:

Warboss Spleenstaba wrote:
allot of humans ahave turned to chaos or something else like a mutation of the emperor's worship or some native feral religion,

It's not as common as you seem to think; the Imperials keep a tight leash on their people.

I agree with your stand point on the golden throne and it's what I believe personally, but some people debate it so I figured I'd bring it up, and of course they keep to a tight lead that's what the ordo hereticus is for, but what about the chaos guard legions, and the lost feral worlds.

All this being said it really doesn't matter if everysingle human was a devout emperor cultist, orks still outnumber them.

Sorry, I took your comment out of context. For some reason, when I read "a lot of humans turned to chaos" I missed the "ed" in "Turned" and read "a lot of humans turn to Chaos"
As I recently commented in another topic, the Imperium is always forgetting planets and systems, especially on the Outer Fringe. These lost worlds could easily fall to the predations of Chaos.
And there is no question the Orks out number Humanity. That is why Gork and Mork are the most powerful of all the gods, even those of the Chaos variety.

Not a problem, and yes I agree.

Warboss Spleenstaba wrote:Gork and Mork are the most powerful of all the gods, even those of the Chaos variety.

This, I am not so sure about. The gods of Chaos are powered by emotions, if memory serves - regardless of whether those emotions are dedicated to them or not, or they would never have been born in the first place. I have a feeling, therefore, that at least Khorne might be on par with Gork and Mork (for obvious reasons), or at least with one of them. It's too bad we don't have more Khorne Orks, but I suppose they don't really feel the need to switch from two angry gods to one.

Khorne, Gork and Mork should make a new pantheon together. They could take turns being angry. That way the pantheon would be always angry. All the time.

But Orks aren't even sure which is Gork and which is Mork so they could be the same person or they could be Khorne. You never know.

I also belive that there is a Kult of Speed in the Ork universe, i think that they're like the Adeptus Mechanicus on Mars. I don't care what you think about this, this is what I believe and boy has this gotten somewhat off track and only in two pages!

To fix this I wil say this. THE EMPEROR IS A GOD AND NO OTHER GODS EXIST BWAHAHAHAHA!! BLOOD FOR THE BLO...I MEAN EMPEROR!! Oh, and the army does sound cool, I thought that the Inquisition had something like daemons under their control as slaves or whatever, but Emperor Demons sound godly.

Ok, more fuel for the fire: we know that humanity has a certain degree of psychic ability (some more so than others) in the 40k universe. The beliefs and actions of races that have psyker traits reflect in the warp, and can take on a life of their own, just ask the Eldar. What's to say that the Emperor doesn't have his own warp-reflection due to the belief of humanity in him?

Shh...the black ships will come for you.

But going on your logic, if the emperor(greatest psyker known to man) believed in himself then he would exist in the warp despite the number of humans believing in him. Then also anyone else who has a high level of self esteem could have a warpical manifestation of themself.

There's only one case of a species creating a god in the warp(the eldar and slaanesh). I say we conduct a little experiment. Lets all pick a name and a human emotion and think about it really hard to see if GW makes it so.

Magellan wrote:

Warboss Spleenstaba wrote:Gork and Mork are the most powerful of all the gods, even those of the Chaos variety.

This, I am not so sure about. The gods of Chaos are powered by emotions, if memory serves - regardless of whether those emotions are dedicated to them or not, or they would never have been born in the first place. I have a feeling, therefore, that at least Khorne might be on par with Gork and Mork (for obvious reasons), or at least with one of them. It's too bad we don't have more Khorne Orks, but I suppose they don't really feel the need to switch from two angry gods to one.

Khorne, Gork and Mork should make a new pantheon together. They could take turns being angry. That way the pantheon would be always angry. All the time.

I didn't say this magellan di just clarifying, and I'm done with this thread it's exhausting.

http://gilesbowkett.com/images/i_shall_not_tolerate_such_rubbish_good_day_sir.jpg

This thread is fascinating and not rubbish at all. I find that your thinking this thread is rubbish like the chaos belief of the emperor, and you play with a grey knight contingent, for shame.

But if the chaos gods are "existant" because they have gifts and can do bad stuff to the universe, then the emperor is a god because he can do the same.

halonachos wrote:This thread is fascinating and not rubbish at all. I find that your thinking this thread is rubbish like the chaos belief of the emperor, and you play with a grey knight contingent, for shame.

But if the chaos gods are "existant" because they have gifts and can do bad stuff to the universe, then the emperor is a god because he can do the same.

I don't belive that bit about horus if you read you would see that, and I'm bored of it because its the millionth thread about mergeing chaos and imperial in some form or fashion and you have the "for the emra!" people on one side that contribute nothing, and the "death to the corpse emperor" people on the other and the thread never gets anywhere, it is simply a sinkhole.

Well we simply have here a thread about the validity of the Emperor as a god in the 40k universe. We know that there are gods, but is the emperor a god?

I think we need to see what determines a god in the 40k universe.
1) Have to make physical manifestations of self.
---Emperor, and Chaos Gods. Avatar of Khaine.

Therefor Gork and Mork are not gods as I've never seen either one of them influence the orks or the universe.

This is the fluff section, of course there's going to be these arguments. There's only so much fluff that GW puts out for us to read.