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I will literally vote on every image I see while browsing, unless its a wip, picture of a base, photo of a game table with 100 out of focus models, or the same image ive seen and voted on before.

I really don't get why so many people don't do this, it takes half a second, and would improve the gallery and rating system immensly as long as they are not gakkers about it.

Not only have I started voting but I've made my own gallery to boot.

I have a feeling this is what made people lazy to vote
( having to sort through multiple WIPs )

So the 2 solutions i perfer are:

Make multiple WIP into collages as a rule.
( only 1 wip pic/ collage per model allowed )

or

Seperate Finished Gallery with WIP ones.

I would also like to add , there is absolutely nothing abnormal about receiving different over all rating on same miniature with pics taken from different angles.

This is where photo composition comes in ( and yes its important ). We arnt giving our eyes enough credit when they can spot something is off.
Or can be related to good / bad angles etc etc.
Here is an example i randomly googled:

http://www.trap17.com/forums/Angles-t55562.html

frgsinwntr wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

No-one should be allowed to upload more images than they have voted on.

I think this is a good idea.

I second that motion

I dont like trusting people to behave. There are multiple ways you can force voting - dont load another image until someone votes on it, upload only if you've voted, make a high score table for users by number of votes, etc. All of them have a similar problem - someone just needs to load the turbovoter and hold down '0' or '9' to mess up the voting for many people in an attempt to improve their own score/ranking. The same problem occurs with regular voting but it is slower than turbovoting at least. While that sort of abuse can be undone, it is annoying and I would much prefer making voting entertaining and fun enough that people will want to do it on their own.

LunaHound wrote:
I have a feeling this is what made people lazy to vote
( having to sort through multiple WIPs )

So the 2 solutions i perfer are:

Make multiple WIP into collages as a rule.
( only 1 wip pic/ collage per model allowed )

or

Seperate Finished Gallery with WIP ones.

Having multiple images is annoying when browsing or voting, unless you are looking for that specific model. There have been many times in the past when I've been looking for pictures of a specific obscure model and have been irritated by not being able to see it from different angles and at different stages of progress. I still think that there is a technical solution to the problem and am working on it continually. Yesterday there was a new gallery update which should break up grouping even more and reduce the number of WIP images that are blocked together even further, so try voting again a bit and see how it goes. Of course, when crap images have been rated highly they will be shown to you over other images, so vote them down so that others dont have to be annoyed by them. The current crap:cool ratio when browsing the gallery is about 1:4.5 by my rough estimates, but it was about 1:2.5 a month ago so things are improving.

As has been stated in this thread already, more votes will solve the problems, we get about 1 vote for every 12 image views in the gallery, and things are slowly improving.

Faux Pas wrote:I think that the split gallery option would be optimal, The idea to submit only the images you want to have people vote on.

I am quite in favour of this idea as many people (myself included) put up wip images as part of an ongoing blog, yet I want very few of these actually voded on. In the case of a conversion I'd probably want a rating on the finished product twice, primed then fully painted (that way you can judge how much the paint job adds to the model). Also if I put up multiple views of a model its to show it off but really its only the main view that i'd like to have voting on, i'm sure i'm not the only one that thinks this way?

Sirius42 wrote:

Faux Pas wrote:I think that the split gallery option would be optimal, The idea to submit only the images you want to have people vote on.

I am quite in favour of this idea as many people (myself included) put up wip images as part of an ongoing blog, yet I want very few of these actually voded on. In the case of a conversion I'd probably want a rating on the finished product twice, primed then fully painted (that way you can judge how much the paint job adds to the model). Also if I put up multiple views of a model its to show it off but really its only the main view that i'd like to have voting on, i'm sure i'm not the only one that thinks this way?

And again, voting isn't just so you can judge your models against other people. It is also an important way to make the gallery system as a whole function and thrive. Because guess what? Some WIP images are better than others, and the voting system helps to sort those images out so when you do a search you see the better WIP images first.

Now, we're still in the baby stages of the voting, so not everything has as many votes as they should to give a very accurate representation, but if I do a search for "tyranids" in the 'WIP' tag category, the images I get are ordered by the ranking of those WIP Tyranid images.

If users are able to opt-out their pictures from being voted on, all of a sudden the ability to sort interesting WIP pictures from decent WIP pictures and decent WIP pictures from terrible WIP pictures vanishes.


If people can get over the fact that images with only a few votes may have strange initial rankings and just KEEP VOTING, the whole thing will work out just fine.

I really think we'r hearing a concensus that there should be an opt-in opt-out option for voting.

Images should still be searchable, but not show up for casual brousing/voting.

For example Death By Monkeys just did a great gallery of alternate West Wind heads on IG bodies:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-6005-1827_West%20Wind%20Heads.html

Very, very useful but not painted. I can give it points for 'cool' but removing it from voting might make sense too.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:I really think we'r hearing a concensus that there should be an opt-in opt-out option for voting.

Images should still be searchable, but not show up for casual brousing/voting.

For example Death By Monkeys just did a great gallery of alternate West Wind heads on IG bodies:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-6005-1827_West%20Wind%20Heads.html

Very, very useful but not painted. I can give it points for 'cool' but removing it from voting might make sense too.

I understand that is what people are asking for. But they are thinking about the gallery from the standard CMON perspective and from that perspective voting on WIP or unpainted models seems ludicrous.

But when you consider that the search system utilizes ranking to give you better images than others and you realize that there are times when you actually want to SEE WIP pics on a certain topic, and when you do a search you'd much rather see the all the good WIP pics rather than having to sort through all the blurry WIP pics you start to understand that voting on ALL pictures is a useful tool.

I agree voting on WIP pics isn't a very pleasurable thing, so the challenge becomes making sure that you don't see those pics too often, which is the ideal that we've always been working towards.

I just made a thread in Painting & Modeling. The purpose of the thread is for users to post one image that they'd like to be voted on. You can find the code to link an image to the gallery under your image in the "my gallery" section. Have at it.

Daggermaw wrote:how about instead of every image being votable, users can submit pictures from their gallery to be voted upon.

I have pictures of garage made guns and some WIP stuff in my galleries and have no desire to have any vote applied to them.

I've tried to vote on people's stuff before but getting the same stuff, or stuff that isn't wargames related really starts to wear on me.

Exactly. The few images I have posted, have not been for votes. I went back, saw the voting, and have been turned off from posting more pics.

I would like to see an option to self remove images from the voting procedure. That'd allow me to stop adding to the 'excess images' while still posting images in the forums that I find interesting and believe the community would find interesting.

yakface wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:I really think we'r hearing a concensus that there should be an opt-in opt-out option for voting.

Images should still be searchable, but not show up for casual brousing/voting.

For example Death By Monkeys just did a great gallery of alternate West Wind heads on IG bodies:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-6005-1827_West%20Wind%20Heads.html

Very, very useful but not painted. I can give it points for 'cool' but removing it from voting might make sense too.

I understand that is what people are asking for. But they are thinking about the gallery from the standard CMON perspective and from that perspective voting on WIP or unpainted models seems ludicrous.

But when you consider that the search system utilizes ranking to give you better images than others and you realize that there are times when you actually want to SEE WIP pics on a certain topic, and when you do a search you'd much rather see the all the good WIP pics rather than having to sort through all the blurry WIP pics you start to understand that voting on ALL pictures is a useful tool.

I agree voting on WIP pics isn't a very pleasurable thing, so the challenge becomes making sure that you don't see those pics too often, which is the ideal that we've always been working towards.

I seem to recall having to vote on someone's Tyranids many times over.

malfred wrote:
I seem to recall having to vote on someone's Tyranids many times over.

QFT. When it came up another 7 times yesterday I finally checked the owner, it's Yakface himself.....

George Spiggott wrote:I would like to see an option to self remove images from the voting procedure. That'd allow me to stop adding to the 'excess images' while still posting images in the forums that I find interesting and believe the community would find interesting.

I really like this idea. The positive side is that (some) excess images are removed from the voting process depending how wisely/often people use this feature. Some simple guidelines near the options etc. would help with this I think. The negative side being that some images that the uploader thought didn't warrant voting are removed needlessly. I think that making removing from voting the option (and not the other way around) will lessen this impact.

after the request made a little while back to vote on gallery images, i went and voted on a bunch over about 30+ minutes but stopped because they kept giving me the same guy's gallery. just how many times am i going to have to vote on one guys albeit very nice carnifex? he must have had 10 pics of each monstrous creature in his army and i apparently got to review each one!!!!!! i wish that it gave you only one from each gallery before repeating the same person's pics.

warboss wrote:after the request made a little while back to vote on gallery images, i went and voted on a bunch over about 30+ minutes but stopped because they kept giving me the same guy's gallery. just how many times am i going to have to vote on one guys albeit very nice carnifex? he must have had 10 pics of each monstrous creature in his army and i apparently got to review each one!!!!!! i wish that it gave you only one from each gallery before repeating the same person's pics.

There's a fairly hoppin' thread in the modeling and painting forum where people post single pictures that they want you to vote on.

i'd rather vote in the regular gallery. i'm just making a suggestion to improve the algorithm used to determine what pictures it sends you. i'm probably not the only person who got bored voting on the same guy's stuff every second picture.

warboss wrote:after the request made a little while back to vote on gallery images, i went and voted on a bunch over about 30+ minutes but stopped because they kept giving me the same guy's gallery. just how many times am i going to have to vote on one guys albeit very nice carnifex? he must have had 10 pics of each monstrous creature in his army and i apparently got to review each one!!!!!! i wish that it gave you only one from each gallery before repeating the same person's pics.

It's Yakface. If you look at his gallery, you'll see that most of his stuff has 10-20 votes already. Since he seems like a decent chap, I can only conclude that they're deliberately bring up his stuff to make sure that they've got a good idea of how the system will shake out after the voting is completed. Oddly enough it seems to be part of the reason why the system is breaking down. This is the third or fourth comment about the 'nid from every angle shots in the gallery.

Is the voting ever going to get completed?

It's not quite as conspiracy-ish as that. Basically, if you are logged in, we show you the best images that you have not yet viewed for 80% of your views. This means that if there are a bunch of images that have the same score (new images with 8/8 for example), they will be grouped together. In the case of yak's tyranids, the pictures look similar so they get similar scores which causes them to be grouped together. About 1 in 4.5 images are grouped together at the moment (down from 1 in 2 or so) so things are improving. I have a fix lined up that will change that ratio to about 1 in 16 which will make it practically unnoticeable, but I need to test it more and do some other optimisations to the site first as it increases the load of the gallery by a fair amount.

Bear in mind though, that if you get grouped images and work through them, so long as you dont rate them all identically then they will not be grouped together for the next person to view them right now. I tend to give different ranks based on the quality of the photo and angle of the miniature which breaks up a lot of those sorts of groupings, though there are obviously some instances where doing that is not logical. You can always just hit 'skip to next image' a few times until it goes away as well, but that will not solve the grouping for other dakka users.

Thanks for the feedback, and please check out the gallery every week or two if you do not already as I am constantly tweaking and improving it.

Kilkrazy wrote:Is the voting ever going to get completed?

Right now we get about 1000-1400 votes per day at about 12 views per vote, so yes, things are going well.

Good. I was worried the rate of adding new pictures was outrunning the rate of voting.

im actually quite impressed, just looked at my image and i have votes lol

Could the formula be weighted more towards recent uploads and models with 0-1 vote? Maybe half high scorers and half with no score?

It really seems the recent uploads are getting no attention unless someone gives them a 10/10 when they're loaded.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Could the formula be weighted more towards recent uploads and models with 0-1 vote? Maybe half high scorers and half with no score?

It really seems the recent uploads are getting no attention unless someone gives them a 10/10 when they're loaded.

That is how things used to be, but it meant lots of clustering of similar just-uploaded images and made the voting a bit boring for some people. It is now at a stable point, there are about 200-250 unrated images at any one time, and they are shown to users about 1 in 10 times. I am adding a new mode called 'help dakka' tomorrow which is part of the drop down under the voting box, which will only show you images that need votes. I am also adding another turbovoter just for this, so mods and people who want to help out, or just people who want to see something different, can use that to help increase the vote count for newer images.

Having mentioned my Ork Aeronef image in this thread, it picked some more views and votes -- obviously from very intelligent and perceptive people because the score went up.

This shows (if we needed to be told) that people vote on the images brought to their attention.

Kilkrazy wrote:This shows (if we needed to be told) that people vote on the images brought to their attention.

Yes, that is apparent as the two vote for this threads in P&M section have been succeeded nicely.

I wonder if we should sticky one Vote for this thread in P&M forum.

Good idea.

I could sticky a thread for a week, then when it gets too long another one could be started.