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I tried to listen to that thing, and it was for the most part so incoherent that I have no idea whether anything that was said was actual information they were trying to get across or just another cutesy quip. I'll stick to print from now on.

I have to roll my eyes when miniatures wargamers complain about having to spend $50 on a new book or $12 for a new deck of cards when they've already dropped $500 - $2000 on their army(ies). If cost is going to be an issue, you shouldn't have gotten into the hobby in the first place. I really don't understand what Craig's issue with the timing of MK2's release is. Both PP and GW release new books every year. I think 40K gamers (of which I am one) are jealous that WM gamers (of which I am one) all get updates when a new PP book comes out while certain 40K factions are left to languish with codexes written 2 editions ago while trying to compete against horribly overpowered newer codexes (i.e. -'Nids).

The Score is a great idea for a segment. I love creating themed playlists for games/armies and I'm looking forward to getting some new ideas.

Edit - The answer to the queston about the statement in the FAQ about statlines being halved is that unit officers will share the same stats as the rest of the unit. That was confirmed in internal Press Ganger forums according to a Press Ganger on the Iron Agenda podcast.

Vladigar wrote:Edit - The answer to the queston about the statement in the FAQ about statlines being halved is that unit officers will share the same stats as the rest of the unit. That was confirmed in internal Press Ganger forums according to a Press Ganger on the Iron Agenda podcast.

I've heard this confirmed as well, along with some other tid bits that are coming out in NQ #23. I think we'll have to clear up what we know in Achievements in Gaming in ep 28.

Of course the real fun begins next week, when the play test rules hit the street. I can't wait.


Note to Warpcrafter: Thanks for giving us a try... did you get past Rapid Fire? That's the first 5 minutes of the show, the rest of the show is a bit different.

I got all the way through the interview with that doctor fellow, though it was difficult. It reminded me of conversations with my high school friends after we'd all gotten out of high school and they all became stoners except for me. Those guys seem to have no attention span whatsoever, and get the giggles way to easily. I would rather just stick to waiting for press releases to show up on TGN, then make their way to Dakka. That way, if somebody's posts on the subject seem to be wandering, I can just skip over them instead of having to sit and listen to their verbal diarrhea. Yes, I'm not much of a people person. Too much time spent around them has made me crabby.

Thanks for another fun show! Another half a work day sped along by the D6G. Chalk me up as another fan of the score segment, though no word from Owen for two episodes now tsk tsk inquiring minds want to know whats the word from Wales!

I have to agree that your anti-GW bias was showing some there Russ, so I can see where some comments were coming from. But overall it really doesnt matter, Craig did a good job of bringing in the view from both sides and the conversation was a good one and very worth having. Different people like different things and have different opinions, people need to stop being fanboys and just be happy being gamers. No matter what system you play, as long as you have fun, we all win.

Vladigar wrote:I have to roll my eyes when miniatures wargamers complain about having to spend $50 on a new book or $12 for a new deck of cards when they've already dropped $500 - $2000 on their army(ies). If cost is going to be an issue, you shouldn't have gotten into the hobby in the first place. I really don't understand what Craig's issue with the timing of MK2's release is. Both PP and GW release new books every year. I think 40K gamers (of which I am one) are jealous that WM gamers (of which I am one) all get updates when a new PP book comes out while certain 40K factions are left to languish with codexes written 2 editions ago while trying to compete against horribly overpowered newer codexes (i.e. -'Nids).

The Score is a great idea for a segment. I love creating themed playlists for games/armies and I'm looking forward to getting some new ideas.

Edit - The answer to the queston about the statement in the FAQ about statlines being halved is that unit officers will share the same stats as the rest of the unit. That was confirmed in internal Press Ganger forums according to a Press Ganger on the Iron Agenda podcast.

You do realize that PP is moving to an Army book style system, correct?

Yes, and all the books will be out within a year after MK2 goes live. The players themselves get to determine the order in which the books will be released.

RussWakelin wrote:Great color scheme and paint job. I like the sculpted eagle on the prow. Let me know how your games go. I've just started playing with my human fleet and I really like how they work.

Thanks Russ!

The eagle on the prow is actually an 6th ed. Empire shield boss I had in my bits box. All I did was score the back down the center with my knife so that I could get it to fold just enough to follow the angle of the prow and super-glued it on.

So far I've only managed to get one game in, and I have to say that the Humans have an awesome fleet! Our battle was a 3-way with one friend playing his Orcs, and another friend playing my newly-purchased Elven fleet. I ended up getting stuck in the middle and I knew I was in for a smackdown (which was okay seeing as how we just wanted to get the rules under our belts) and I was amazed at how well my fleet dished it out.

Valhallan42nd wrote:

Vladigar wrote:I have to roll my eyes when miniatures wargamers complain about having to spend $50 on a new book or $12 for a new deck of cards when they've already dropped $500 - $2000 on their army(ies). If cost is going to be an issue, you shouldn't have gotten into the hobby in the first place. I really don't understand what Craig's issue with the timing of MK2's release is. Both PP and GW release new books every year. I think 40K gamers (of which I am one) are jealous that WM gamers (of which I am one) all get updates when a new PP book comes out while certain 40K factions are left to languish with codexes written 2 editions ago while trying to compete against horribly overpowered newer codexes (i.e. -'Nids).

The Score is a great idea for a segment. I love creating themed playlists for games/armies and I'm looking forward to getting some new ideas.

Edit - The answer to the queston about the statement in the FAQ about statlines being halved is that unit officers will share the same stats as the rest of the unit. That was confirmed in internal Press Ganger forums according to a Press Ganger on the Iron Agenda podcast.

You do realize that PP is moving to an Army book style system, correct?

At least the rewrites will all be released in close time with each other.

Valhallan42nd wrote:
You do realize that PP is moving to an Army book style system, correct?

Actually they are not releasing army style books at all, that is how Games Workshop releases their game, not Privateer. What Privateer is doing as confirmed in NQ #23, officially released Wed March 25th, is as follows....

In April 2009 they will be offering for download all of the rules for Warmachine MKII as well as card information for all Warmachine models released to date, up to and including Legends.

In 2010 they will be releasing 5 faction card decks very early in the year, most likely January along with a rule book containing all of the rules for MKII Warmachine at the same time. Players will need to at least purchase their up to date faction deck, but likely also the rule book if they want their own copy of the most up to date MKII rules. Shortly thereafter, most likely I would expect February 2010, they will release MKII Hordes play test rules.

Following the release of the faction decks and rule book in 2010 they will be releasing 5 books, one for each of the 4 major factions as well as a complete mercenary compilation with sections for general mercenaries as well as a section for Rhulic and Pirates. The order of the release of books will be determined by the outcome of the 2009 summer rampage event. Summer Rampage is a Privateer event where the outcome of individual games of Warmachine/Hordes are recorded on a global map managed by Privateer, they ran one last year.

Of course when a player receives their faction book in 2010 will have little impact on their play, other than bragging rights, as they will already have the compiled MKII rules and all of their cards. In fact a player need not even purchase their faction book at all since they will already have all their rules and cards. Privateer also plans to release one warcaster and one warjack with each of the new faction books. Given that Privateer releases models on a continual basis via No Quarter I would expect at least one new model from each faction book to be available prior to the release of the book and of course when the new models are released all relevant rules come on their cards. Again no need to buy a faction book unless you want it for your collection.

After the 2010 faction books have been released Privateer will be returning to their tried and true method of releasing books that contain a section for each faction, with probably an occasional forces of warmachine book similar to the Pirates of the Broken Coast book released in late 2007 if they want to expand out a certain area. I could see a forces of Rhul book for example at some point to expand out the dwarves, especially given the current story arc will be likely involving Rhul more heavily.

At some point in all of this we will also probably see a Forces style book for Retribution, the new Warmachine faction, but only Privateer knows when they will debut that. I do know from reading the Privateer modeling forums that they have retribution models that they are painting in studio as this was mentioned by a studio painter in their studio painting tips thread. Yes even the Privateer studio painters keep in touch with their players in the forums and give tips on paint mixes and other advice.

I do not see in any way how this release plan resembles in any fashion anything that Games Workshop does and why should it, Privateer is not Games Workshop.

So, they're releasing rule books you don't need. Hmmm...

Valhallan42nd wrote:So, they're releasing rule books you don't need. Hmmm...

They have been doing that all the time. You don't need the any rule books except the core book to play with the latest figs. I for example haven't bought the last 3 rulebooks for WM, but I still have figs from them and I'm able play with them as the necessary rules are available in cards.

By Randomly determining terrain I mean determine terrain however you'd like.

I like to roll a d6 for each 12" square on the table, every 5+ (or 4+, or 6+, whatever works for your play group) is marked for terrain, and then, when all the areas that will have terrain are marked, each player rolls a die and the winner places the first piece, anything from your local collection that fits into a 12" square, first. You then alternate. If you have pieces that are bigger than 12" you can place one if two empty squares are adjacent, but that counts as two placements for you.

Conversely you can roll randomly to determine how many terrain pieces there will be, or you can use my terrain cards, or whatever.

As an unrelated side note, has anyone had trouble downloading the latest 40K Radio episode? I'm only getting their fan-generated lead in when I try. If anyone has it, could you please email it to me at my d6g email?

Thanks, guys!

~Craig

A new Words from Wales has been submitted, maybe next episode your wish will be answered.

Valhallan42nd wrote:So, they're releasing rule books you don't need. Hmmm...

Yes, this time you are posting correct information although I do not believe "Hmmm" is an actual sentence.

deleted

1. Love your show. I started listening to Podcasts through 40K radio. After listening to 40K radio for about 6 months I found you guys through a link on 40K radio's website. I really enjoy your show because you guys display more maturity than the hosts on 40K radio.

Master-Terraformer wrote:By Randomly determining terrain I mean determine terrain however you'd like.

I like to roll a d6 for each 12" square on the table, every 5+ (or 4+, or 6+, whatever works for your play group) is marked for terrain, and then, when all the areas that will have terrain are marked, each player rolls a die and the winner places the first piece, anything from your local collection that fits into a 12" square, first. You then alternate. If you have pieces that are bigger than 12" you can place one if two empty squares are adjacent, but that counts as two placements for you.

Conversely you can roll randomly to determine how many terrain pieces there will be, or you can use my terrain cards, or whatever.
~Craig

The above terrain placement is similar to old Historical games such as WRG (Wargames Research Group) version 6.5 and 7.0 and DBM (De Bellis Multitudinis).

Master-Terraformer wrote:
As an unrelated side note, has anyone had trouble downloading the latest 40K Radio episode? I'm only getting their fan-generated lead in when I try. If anyone has it, could you please email it to me at my d6g email?

Thanks, guys!

~Craig

Let me know if you still need Episode 37. I can put it on my Mediafire site.

Valhallan42nd wrote:

They're even having a public beta test of the new rules in April!

I am in no way a PP fanboy. I don't like PP games, and I don't play them.

I don't think Games Workshop trusts us to beta-test their rules for them. That upsets me. Their insular, backwards mindset limits them and insults their customer base.

Listen to us GW, we're willing to do ALL your beta testing for you. It won't cost you a thing but pride. Suck it up.

GW has done beta testing before. In 3rd edition they released Trial Assault Rules in White Dwarf. These were similar to what the 4th ed assault rules wound up being, though they had substantial differences. So GW seemingly did use some of the feedback. They also had the Hold Your Ground! (40k version of fantasy’s Stand & Shoot charge reaction) optional rule in WD, though that wasn’t nearly as popular, and was never adopted into the actual rules. My recollection from the Trial Assault Rules test was that the hardcore gamers enjoyed it, and the casual gamers got confused as hell. They were actually part of what caused Raef to drop out. I was playing a lot of 40k at the time, and remember a significant negative reaction from the more casual players, who felt that they couldn’t keep track of the differences, and hated having to reference three sources (rulebook, trial rules, and FAQ) to handle assaults properly.

GW has also done external codex playtesting in the past, with mixed results. Some of their playtesters have given great feedback, which has sometimes been used and sometimes seemingly ignored (as with the WH Armies: Chaos Daemons book). Some playtesters have given a lot of leaks to the web.

To the D6G Crew

Just a word on the issue one of you good folks had with Privateer doing Prime.. then Prime Remix.. and then Mark II.
Not sure how these things are worked out on a corporate level, but being as I like to give Privateer the benifit of the doubt, I do not see anything untoward in the release timeframes...
Even if they knew Mark II was on its way, when it comes to the main Warmachine rule book, what else could they have done?
What I mean is, at some point, they need to reprint their main rulebook.. they run out of copies for distributors... and at such a point, when there is a lot of rules scattered over several books and a lot of FAQ/Erratta, I believe that Prime Remix was a boon to the Warmachine community. In effect, instead of just calling up their printers and having another batch of "Prime Black and White with lots of errors in it" run off so that they could continue to have rule books to sell to folks to get them into the game, Privateer went ahead and "Fixxed" the rule book, made it new and pretty, added new fluff/artwork and then had it printed.
Now I am not sure how much they make as a company from rule books... but I am sure that they did not all "get rich" by putting out Remix.
It seemed to be resonably priced and was updated and showed "work". I got value for it when I bought it..

As for the Colour cards.. well they provide a card with your miniature... and what else could they do but sell them in decks so that folks who had the "old Black and White" could get the "new ones" without having to buy the miniatures again...

As for selling a direct Mark II book to folks for a discount if you own Prime or Prime Remix...while that would be nice, to me its not an issue.
I got play value out of all my books and miniatures, and mark II will let me continue with my current miniatures and give me a new game at a resonable price of a rule book and a deck of cards.. to me thats ok.
I know that Flames of War did such a thing.. but I am not sure how that worked out for them. You see, selling direct to a consumer or providing a free download/upgrade cuts out a lot of hobby middlemen... many of whom I am sure make a bigger chunk of money off these items than Privateer does.
So doing something like that would take away from a portion of the FLG's income and a chunk out of the "distributors" income as well. I do not think that would go over well here... but maybe other game stores do not have an issue with folks buying their stuff from online.

Anyway, as you can see, I am not in agreement with the idea that "Prime" to "Remix" to "Mark II' was done in an improper way.
They needed to keep printing rule books.. and for Remix to have not come out would mean that for the past 2 year folks would have been buying a reprinted black and white "Prime" without all the rules ... Remix was well done and IMHO showed an actual dedication to their growing game community that many other game companies do not.


Great podcast.. have enjoyed every one of them..

TTFN
Don King

Mannahnin: I too remember the Trial Assault rules, and the Trial Vehicle rules. While I liked the fact that GW was allowing us to beta-test the 4th ed rules, it was a huge PITA to basically have to have a stack of books in order to play a game. It's one reason why I'm not hugely in favor of constant FAQ's and downloaded supplements (I'd rather they would just write it better from the start, but that's another conversation).

I think at this point, the number of worldwide players playing 40k would make an open beta very hard to manage and would probably be ultimately useless. As for external playtesting, I think the inability to enforce an NDA is huge so I'd hope they do more internal playtesting, but we really don't know how much (little) they actually do.

BTW, I had a friend who used to playtest for PP and he said it wasn't much better. They'd make suggestions about the power level of certain units/characters and PP would pretty much ignore them too.