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The thing I hated most about Dark Ages is that half of the mechs were glorified farm machinery - tractors and combines with legs, basically.

I didn't want to play Mechwarrior so I could play "Space Farm." I wanted to annihilate my table-top enemies with space age military-grade hardware.

I'm looking forward to giving real Battletech a swing when I get back to the States.

Balance wrote:There's been some dark days for the product line, I believe. Like when FASA shut down...

You have to remember that FASA chose to shut its doors. Maybe a poor choice on their part, but it wasn't as if they went out of business (as opposed to Ral Partha, who had become dependant on FASA, so the ending of FASA was the death of them!).

There has been some times of uncertainty, such as during the transition from BTech to Wizkids (but that was quickly removed when Fanpro got the lisence) and some uncertainty recently with the Wizkids imposion, but we're at the 25th anniversary now and things are looking stronger than ever.

Hordini wrote:The thing I hated most about Dark Ages is that half of the mechs were glorified farm machinery - tractors and combines with legs, basically.

Yeah I remember when they first started showing the previews for Dark Age.

1. They showed off the first 'Mech in the game and it was a 'Mech used for cutting down forests.
2. They then proceed to tell us that 'Mechs will have a reduced presence in the game, with more of an emphasis on vehicles and infantry.
3. We're advancing the plot 60 years and not telling you what happened after the FCCW.

This was their way of generating hype for the game.

Ok, so you've got a game where the two most iconic 'Mechs are the Atlas and the Mad Cat, you're reinventing the series and... you're showing us an Industrial 'Mech as your big marketing 'reveal'. You're also de-emphasising 'Mechs completely, in a game that was about 'Mechs. And you're taking the plotlines we've all been reading for 20+/- years and... ignoring them.

Talk about a surefire way to get your fans off side...

That's exactly how it went for me!

At first I was even somewhat exited about the clicky mechs. With me playing both WHFB, 40K and D&D my hobby budget was stretched as it was. While I like the metal Btech miniatures they're quite expensive IMO so I was mainly playing with counters, the cardboard mechs on stands from the latest box at that time and the plastic CityTech models.
So I thought: "Never mind bendy plastic and weak paintjobs, I'll be having myself some cheap mech models!! I can repaint them easily!"

And then came that Forestry mech and all the other 'exiting' news about the Dark Age setting. Threw up a little in my mouth when they revealed that I can tell you!

I thought that damn forestry mech looked like a Zeus with a Chainsaw attached.....

The Forestry 'Mech was ok as far as 'Mechs go - I kinda like the way it looks even - it was just such a big (unintentional) "feth you!" from the Wizkids guys.

I'm sure they intended it to be the greatest idea ever... I just don't see how none of them stopped to think "Hey, most of these BTech fans are hard-core wargamers that have stuck with us for years... won't this alienate them?"

Did no one have enough clout to tell Jordan Wiseman that his idea - which had nothing inherently wrong with it, the Dark Age timeline is fine and I'm looking forward to reaching it via regular BTech - was going to backfire and turn people against him?

There's a huge stigma at the BTech forums about Dark Age, a stigma that has bled through onto the whole Jihad thing (which was planned way before ClickTech was even an idea yet gets seen as 'part of' the whole ClickTech thing), and while Dark Age has its proponents, the ClickTech stuff is universally reviled by most players. Did they not expect that? Did not one see that coming?

Talking about the Jihad, you can see it coming (fight between the two factions) but I didn't expect it to be so wide ranging or, more importantly, so sudden.

One moment we're recovering from the FCCW and the next moment we've jumped 60+ years and all your fave units/people are dead.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Hordini wrote:The thing I hated most about Dark Ages is that half of the mechs were glorified farm machinery - tractors and combines with legs, basically.

Yeah I remember when they first started showing the previews for Dark Age.

1. They showed off the first 'Mech in the game and it was a 'Mech used for cutting down forests.
2. They then proceed to tell us that 'Mechs will have a reduced presence in the game, with more of an emphasis on vehicles and infantry.
3. We're advancing the plot 60 years and not telling you what happened after the FCCW.

This was their way of generating hype for the game.

Ok, so you've got a game where the two most iconic 'Mechs are the Atlas and the Mad Cat, you're reinventing the series and... you're showing us an Industrial 'Mech as your big marketing 'reveal'. You're also de-emphasising 'Mechs completely, in a game that was about 'Mechs. And you're taking the plotlines we've all been reading for 20+/- years and... ignoring them.

Talk about a surefire way to get your fans off side...

I do not mind the industrial mechs. They worked on Verthandi in 3026 and while that was fiat such weapons should have been canon for Periphery forces all the way through.

What really blows it for me are the stupid designs for clan mechs, Jade Falcons all have talons and wings, wolves all have wolf heads and feral grins etc. Firstly if resources are strapped why bother with all that bs, and if resources are not what are tanks and light infantry doing in the Falcon Guards?

This is the real travesty, they take unit histories from the franchise and maul them to fit the clickytech sellling method. I.e. each and every faction unit gets a mix of mechs, industrial mechs, tanks, light vehicles, battle armour and infantry. Frankly that is a mess.

There's nothing wrong with Industrial 'Mechs, and as I said, I actually like the way the Forestry 'Mechs looks, it's just that that was their 'big reveal'. The 'future' of BattleTech at the time was a... LumberMech...

Yay...?

It didn't make sense to essentially restart BTech and then leave out the two single most memorable parts of it (Atlas & Mad Cat). I get that it was a collectable miniature game and they wanted to make all things equal (Infantry, Tanks, etc.) but when you're attempting to both generate interest and especially generate intrest in the ranks of the existing BTech fans, showing them a 'Mech that spends its day cutting down trees and crossdressing* is not the best way to start.

As far as the Falcon 'Mechs go, I do like the Shrike, and TPTB have done a good job at putting Wings and Talons into the game with actual proper rules (the partial wing is kinda nifty!). I also accept that aesthetic styles are going to change over the years. Compare the TRO's and how they changed (even the misteps of 3055). I can see design ideas changing in 60 years, so while they may not be the best designs aesthetically, it's nothing new - there have been ugly 'Mechs since the Mackie, and there will be ugly 'Mechs past the 3150's...

*Monty Python reference for those who don't get it.

Well to give Wizkids some cgredit they did ensure both the Timber Wolf and atlas made it into the intial release.

Even so we should have had more mechs from 3025 and 3050, ultimately the game boils down to them. Slowly some arrived, some intact, others mauled, but by and large we get a qwhole load of fugly designs that should never be there, and I am not talking about the industrial mechs those make sense. Almost every time I saw a new clickytech mech design I saw an opportunity wasted. Give me Jenners not Arbalests, Phoenix Hawks not Crimson Hawks - and at a proper scale too.
Half of the tanks could and should have been replaced by the designs from 3026.

Orlanth wrote:Well to give Wizkids some credit they did ensure both the Timber Wolf and atlas made it into the initial release.

Technically, the Mad Cat was NEVER released by Wizkids as we know it. Despite the fact they had a Mad Cat design that looked a LOT like our old favorite, that was a 90 ton Mad Cat II. This was something they screwed up on rather badly and never made up for. Look at the old dossiers for the people who had Mad Cats. They were much more closely resembling the Mad Cat Mk. II in terms of payload.

The only 75 ton Mad Cat released was the Mad Cat Mk. IV.

I thought WizKids released a Mad Cat Mk. I, II, III, and IV?

Are you saying the WizKids Mk. I and II were basically the same?

There was the Savage Wolf, which was just a non-Omni Mad Cat C. There was the Mad Cat Mk.II, which came about thanks to MW4, and hte Mad Cat Mk.III which is a little 45 (55?) tonner and it's pretty cool.

Hordini wrote:I thought WizKids released a Mad Cat Mk. I, II, III, and IV?

Are you saying the WizKids Mk. I and II were basically the same?

Wizkids never released a Mad Cat I.

The Mad Cat II LOOKED like a Mad Cat, but was the above described 90 tonner.

The Mad Cat III is a 55 tonner that was mad just to put the name Mad Cat out there more. While a nice 'Mech, chassis and capability wise it is identical to a Ryoken.

The Mad Cat IV aka Savage Wolf is the first 75 ton Mad Cat they produced, and it is identical in loadout to a Mad Cat "D."

That is the Wizkids Mad Cat lesson. Have a nice day.

Ah yeah, you're right. I just looked through the WizKids mechs again. For some reason I thought there was a Mad Cat Mk. I in one of the series', but I was wrong.

Man, a lot of those WizKids mech minis are horrid though. I can't hardly believe I actually bought some of those.

Don't feel bad, it was your Battletech addiction that made you buy those things. Only slowly did your body realise that the product was not only no longer pure, it was mixed with downright lethal crap. Be glad you didn't OD on it.