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The aerospace won't get used much. It's mainly for display purposes.

As for going with a pair of Shiva Omnifighters, I had considered it, but I felt the Gothas are more appropriate support for the Regulans (at least that I like, that is).

That's cool. I can NEVER fault a fluff reason for taking a unit.

FLUFF: The only reason a game can be REALLY COOL.

Yeah, I like being at least somewhat fluffy even if the models will mainly be sitting on the shelf

Hey, I own tons of Swiftwinds, MASH vehicles and things like Rotundas. I don't see them every being in a normal game, I have them more for fluff reasons.

I know at least one other person who plays Battletech in Cinci, Ghaz, and I'm pretty sure there are a few others. Go to Yottaquest or post on the forums and and you can probably find a some peeps.

I'm pretty interested in learning Battletech when I get back (I'll probably pick up the starter box with all the plastic mechs) so if you want I'd be more than happy to play then too. It wouldn't be until the fall though.

If you need to find people, sign up as a player at www.catalystdemos.com . It will tell you all the local players in an area, as well as Battletech, Shadowrun, CthulhuTech ( and soon Eclipse Phase and Leviathan) Agents who run those games.

Hordini wrote:I know at least one other person who plays Battletech in Cinci, Ghaz, and I'm pretty sure there are a few others. Go to Yottaquest or post on the forums and and you can probably find a some peeps.

You mean the BattleTech forum on Yotta's boards that has no posts whatsoever My main problem however is timing. I'm at work while most people are gaming.

Yes, I know there are no posts there (it's a rather new subforum), but the player I know plays a lot of different games, and posts a lot in the Flames of War section (one of the more popular games at Yotta).

Foobar is the man you probably want to talk to. Shoot him a PM or something, or even post in the BattleTech forum - you may get someone else to bite too.

Going to the official Battletech forums at www.classicbattletech.com is a good way to do it, too.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I hate the Ost series, but if we ignore them for the time being, I only have one 'issue':

Why a Firestarter in a Fire Support Lance (no pun intended). You've got an Awesome (3PPCs), an Archer (2 LRM20's) and a Warhammer (2PPCs). The Firestarter makes little sense, even as a close-ranged bodyguard 'Mech (something you'd take a Hunchback for). Get this Lance a Longbow, stat! Specifically the one with paired LRM15's and LRM20's all w/Artermis. That's a great Support 'Mech. Or at least a Salamander.

And the Hermes is a little odd in the lance with the Assaults and the Hunchback.

Mike Herbert (the author of Rolling Thunder) was in my gaming group when I was at Miami (OH). We asked him the same question. The idea was the Firestarter would...start fires, with the smoke from the fires thus providing cover and concealment for the Fire Lance. It may not be the best reason, but it makes sense on the surface.

EDIT: Oh, and Ghaz? I'm in Cinci, GMing a game right now. Check it out at http://www.btechunits.com/SMF/index.php?board=130.0 - I post as "Darrian Wolffe" there. We mainly play at ACME Games...

You guys should get the word out a little more. I was up at Sci-Fi City looking at their 'mechs about a month ago and had someone ask me if I knew of a BattleTech group in Cincinnati and had to tell them that unfortunately I did not. Anyway, a few questions for you:

1) Do you play mainly map based or do you use the miniatures rules?

2) Looking at the btechunits forums I noticed a few mentions of going up to IWM and placing an order. Does IWM have a 'store' at their warehouse or is this a special arrangement your group has with them?

I also see you already have two Ghost Bear players. Since I like playing armies that no one else plays that sort of pushes me towards the Regulan list. Maybe I'll rework them as Coyotes instead. Anyway, thanks for the invite, but I'm looking at this as a long-term project as I'll soon be knee-deep in Imperial Guard. If I ever get anything ready to go I know where to call now.

Ghaz wrote:You guys should get the word out a little more. I was up at Sci-Fi City looking at their 'mechs about a month ago and had someone ask me if I knew of a BattleTech group in Cincinnati and had to tell them that unfortunately I did not. Anyway, a few questions for you:

1) Do you play mainly map based or do you use the miniatures rules?

2) Looking at the btechunits forums I noticed a few mentions of going up to IWM and placing an order. Does IWM have a 'store' at their warehouse or is this a special arrangement your group has with them?

I also see you already have two Ghost Bear players. Since I like playing armies that no one else plays that sort of pushes me towards the Regulan list. Maybe I'll rework them as Coyotes instead. Anyway, thanks for the invite, but I'm looking at this as a long-term project as I'll soon be knee-deep in Imperial Guard. If I ever get anything ready to go I know where to call now.

Oh, erm...the campaign involving the Clans ended last month - I just haven't gotten around to removing the threads yet. We're currently about to start up a 3039 Merc campaign (first game is Saturday, at ACME Games from 2-10pm if you'd like to drop by) - just 2 Mechs per player.

We mainly use hex maps, although I'm planning on advancing the idea of minis rules on the players.

Regarding IWM, I worked there for a year, so I and a buddy (who got me the job) go up there every once in a while and pick through their warehouse. They don't normally let people just drop in.

Which is kinda a shame. Ral Partha always let me and my friends in back around '98 or so.

Swordguy wrote:Oh, erm...the campaign involving the Clans ended last month - I just haven't gotten around to removing the threads yet.

It's informative nonetheless It let's me know what other people are playing. I like to play forces that no one else plays (or even considered playing), so the Ghost Bears go on hold. I'm more of an Inner Sphere fan anyway.

Swordguy wrote:We're currently about to start up a 3039 Merc campaign (first game is Saturday, at ACME Games from 2-10pm if you'd like to drop by) - just 2 Mechs per player.

Unfortunately if I'm free I plan on heading up to Sci-Fi City to pick up some paints and maybe a 'mech to start on the Hussars. It does however give me the idea of converting my previous list for the Ronin into a 3039 list for the 2nd Night Stalkers (if anyone wants to post any suggestions, please feel free to do so).

Swordguy wrote:Regarding IWM, I worked there for a year, so I and a buddy (who got me the job) go up there every once in a while and pick through their warehouse. They don't normally let people just drop in.

I thought it would be something like that, but I figured I'd ask anyway. Running an actual store involves a lot more work than just mail order (like collecting sales taxes, etc). It was asked on their forums but never answered. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle (obligatory '80s cartoon reference ). If I need something I can always have Mark at CBW or Eric at Sci-Fi City order it for me without too much hassle.

One last list (if anyone is still reading this ) based on House Kurita's 2nd Night Stalkers during the War of 3039:

Command Lance
LNC 25-02 Lancelot
CRB-20 Crab
PNT-9R Panther
HBK-4P Hunchback

Fire Lance
QKD-5A Quickdraw
GRF-1N Griffin
PNT-9R Panther
FFL-4A Firefly

Strike Lance
MON-67 Mongoose
SDR-5V Spider
JR7-F Jenner
JR7-F Jenner

Here's a description of the 2nd Night Stalkers from the House Kurita book and is what I'm looking for in this force:

2nd Night Stalkers: Johiro’s Regiment
This is a light ‘Mech unit specializing in raids against enemy worlds.

Other than the Mongoose (which is mentioned in TRO: 3039) and maybe the Firefly I'm open to any suggestions.

Honestly? Take the death trap of a Lancelot out and put in a Grand Dragon. Non-Star League tech Lancelots are HORRIBLE.

Fluffy, but still horrid. The Grand Dragon will be fluffy, and better!

Want to get really cool? Swap it with a Hatamoto-Chi. Raw Combine flavor, right there.

Yeah, I was hesitant using a 'mech that pilots in the fluff call a 'Coffin'.

I had considered a Hatamoto-Chi, but with this being 3039 I wasn't sure if the Night Stalkers would have been on the list of regiments testing the prototypes (see fluff in TRO: 3039).

Other than that, how does the rest of the list look? Is it to light in terms of firepower given that I've gone with almost all lightbulb variants of the 'mechs?

My only critique (and I have no idea how your gaming group handles this), is that you have some 'mechs in a raiding force that have no hands, like the Firefly and the Jenner. But this depends on if the scenarios you will play will require the 'mechs to pick up stuff and run off with it.

Well, I don't really have a gaming group so that's not a problem.

As for the 'mechs without hands, while gamewise they make poor raiders they are appropriate fluffwise (see the fluff for the JR7-F Jenner).

I'm also considering a FLS-8K Flashman for the command 'mech as well.

The fact they are all energy weapon heavy makes it an unusual 3039 list. The old fluff always said it was cheaper and easier to maintain ballistic weapons, so that is why there were things like the Clint and Herpes II.

Only other suggestion I might have is swap the Quickdraw for a Catapult. The LRM support could be useful despite the low ammo the Catapult carries.

As for the raiding part, a good raiding force will have some dudes following them in trucks and hovercraft to pile on the goods after the attack force defeats the defenders.

Mattlov wrote:The fact they are all energy weapon heavy makes it an unusual 3039 list. The old fluff always said it was cheaper and easier to maintain ballistic weapons, so that is why there were things like the Clint and Herpes II.

I see what you did there...



I'm just going to put my recommendations in the form of a new list, since it's easier to follow (changes in bold)

Command Lance
DRG-1G Grand Dragon
CRB-20 Crab
PNT-9R Panther
HBK-4P Hunchback

Fire Lance
CPLT-K2 Catapult
GRF-1N Griffin
PNT-9R Panther
DRG-1N Dragon

Strike Lance
MON-67 Mongoose
SDR-5V Spider
JR7-F Jenner
JR7-F Jenner

I agree with Mattlov in changing out the Lancelot for a Grand Dragon - it's both fluffy AND more effective (or at least, less of a deathtrap). The biggest changes are in the Fire Lance - I view a Fire Lance as a unit designed expressly to provide medium-to-long-range fire support via direct or indirect fire. Now, the Griffin and the Panther are classic Fire-support (Sniper) Mechs; no issue with those. But the Quickdraw is a close-range brawler, and the Firefly is a light brawler with an LRM-5 to annoy people on the way in. Neither of those fits the design aesthetic of a "Fire Lance". The Catapult here is the Kurita Variant, with a weapons load of 2 PPCs, 2 MLs, and 2 MGs...but loses the Jump Jets. I'd go with either this one or the classic 2 LRM-15/4ML design; either one works in context...you just don't see the -K2 all that often. The Dragon is there to replace the Firefly because, while I know the list is supposed to be a bunch of light raiders, it has the firepower of a Light Mech (less than the Firefly, actually), and has the bonus of it all being longer-ranged than the Firefly. These changes allow your Fire Lance to actually stay back from the battle and shoot in at range, which is something it couldn't as a unit, do before.

If you aren't sold on the Grand Dragon, other interesting choices would be a Black Knight, the Flashman (as you mentioned), or even one of those shiny new ComStar Upgraded Chargers (the ones that were, in canon, shipped to the DCMS by mistake - sorry if you knew that already; I don't know how much BattleTech info you know...). Black Knights are awesome, Flashmen have the speed and firepower you want (if not *quite* enough heat dissipation with Lvl 1 equipment), and the Charger is just a really nifty, fluffy choice that tells a cool story all on its own, and ties you into the universe in a very direct sense.

That is a very fluffy, yet still quite effective Combine unit. The standard Dragon may not be able to throw out damage, but it can sit at long range firing FOREVER. More ammo than it can possibly go through lets it maintain a cool-running barrage while any other lancemates do what they need to.

And the K2 Catapult is fun. I use them on rare occasion. I like the LRM version more, though. I have 8 rounds of staying at long to middle range, then I can close with empty ammo bins and start lasering away.

Actually I was thinking of making this more of an in-your-face type of list. So if I were to keep the Quickdraw and Firefly what would you add to this "brawler" lance?

I would move the Hunchback down to that lance, and swap the Griffin with a hard, long range hitter to support them all. Maybe a Warhammer, Awesome, or Stalker. The Stalker could get in close too, if needed.

Any light or medium brawlers that would work instead? Assault 'mechs are going the wrong way for a light 'mech unit.

Ghaz wrote:Any light or medium brawlers that would work instead? Assault 'mechs are going the wrong way for a light 'mech unit.

What you're running into is that Light Mechs, generally speaking, are unsuitable for brawlers. Hit-and-run strikers, sure - but a grab-the-guy-by-the-belt-buckle fighting style requires you to have a serious commitment in armor and firepower, and Lights simply don't have the mass to do so. About the lightest unit suitable for that is the Hunchback in Level 1 play (although Wolfhounds can pull it off if you're smart and know when to run away).

Units that use Light Mechs in the manner you describe (the Light Amphagean Assault Groups and Andrew Redburn's Delta Company are the best examples) aer notable for two things - outnumbering the snot out of the enemy and high casualty rates. Delta was a double-strength company (24 Mechs) that was commonly used against lance and company-sized formations, and the LAGs generally target and enemy lance with a company or two or Light Mechs.

Off the Peter Lacasse faction list, here's everything on the Inner Sphere or Draconis Combine lists that's under 55 tons and level 1. Stuff in bold is potentially usable as a brawler:

Wasp
Locust
Mercury
Stinger
Mongoose
Hussar
Spider
Javelin
UrbanMech
Jenner
Panther
Firestarter
Ostscout
Clint
Hermes II
Assassin
Vulcan
Phoenix Hawk
Wyvern
Crab
Trebuchet
Centurion
Hunchback
Dervish
Scorpion
Shadow Hawk
Griffin
Wolverine

There's just not much. Draconis Combine Mechs are noted for their commitment to ranged weapons, good mobility, and tendency to overheat. Good mobility and good ranged capability generally mean light armor, which is bad for a Mech intended to last long enough to get to close range and then mix it up. Now, if I was required to put together a Brawler Lance for your company, I'd do it like this:


Command Lance
CHR-3K Charger
CRB-20 Crab
PNT-9R Panther
HBK-4P Hunchback

Brawler Lance
DRG-1G Grand Dragon
QKD-4G Quickdraw
WVR-6K Wolverine
OTL-4D Ostsol

Strike Lance
MON-67 Mongoose
SDR-5V Spider
JR7-F Jenner
JR7-F Jenner

Now, you'll note that 3 of the 4 Brawler Mechs are heavies (60-tonners), but the entire lance is 5/8/x profiled, giving them the ability to get in close. They're reasonable un-crappy when they're there, and except for the WVR, they all have rear-firing weapons, so when they get in the middle of a formation, they aren't helpless from the back (and the Wolverine makes up for that with jump jets). The average weight of your force is still well under 50 tons, so it's a pretty light formation, and you'll note that the CO's ride got a little swankier (that's one of the C* Chargers, IIRC) and got a LOT better for beating the snot out of people up close (quick, what do you shoot at? The Charger beating you in the face, the Hunchback 3 hexes away hitting you with 20-point bricks, or the Crab and Panther putting fire into the formation?) and lost nothing in the way of speed to the old Grand Dragon that used to be there.

I wouldn't move the Hunchback down, because I tend to group Mechs by speed first. I use lances as a cohesive whole (they all do one thing), and that generally means they need to stick together and move as a unit. A Hunchback at 4/6 in a formation of fast brawlers would get left behind, and subject to annihilation in detail. Now, the larger your playing surface, the more important this becomes, so if you routinely play on a 2-mapsheet battlefield, go right ahead and drop the Hunchie in there. If you insist on it "faster and lighter" than a full lance of 4 Phoenix Hawks becomes your best (read: only viable) choice.

If we're talking any era, I'd add the Talon to that list. I've paired that with a Mongoose and ran circles (literally) around my opponent.

Fantastic combo.

I'm not a fan of the quickdraw...Paper armor if I remember right.

Phoenix Hawks, also not a fan of (At least the stock version). Sure, they're a cool model (Super VF ) but they have only 10 sinks (With mostly energy weaponry), and only 6 points of armor on the head.

For a brawler, I was going to suggest the Centurion, Panther, and Wolfhound (They should have captured one or two by 3039) if you want to keep it light on tonnage.

I always run my lances as command, fire, and then recon though. My command lance IS my brawler lance.

Swordguy wrote:... you'll note that the CO's ride got a little swankier (that's one of the C* Chargers, IIRC) and got a LOT better for beating the snot out of people up close...

Hmm. I'm not sure I'm entirely sold on the CHR-3K Charger for the CO's ride. While I do seem to remember seeing the reference to ComStar sending some lostech 'mechs to the Combine, I can't seem to find the reference right now and the assignment tables in the War of 3039 book makes no mention of the upgraded Charger. How would a GHR-5H or -5N Grasshopper sound in it's place instead? TRO: 3039 call the Grasshopper a 'back-up brawler'.

I think this is going to involve some thought on my part. I was really looking for this force to play differently that the Hussars list which is why I was looking at a light 'mech unit and brawlers instead of sniping at long range.

There is one Quickdraw I like, the QKD-8K. 5/8/5, SFE, four ER Meds and an MRM30. CASE, 2 tons ammo, 12 DHS and about 30 more points of armour than original Quickdraws. You have to be a fan of MRM's to like it (I know I am), but when it comes to Quickdraws there aren't many good ones and this one I like the best.

The only other slightly useful one is the QKD-C, because it can jump around acting as a C3 spotter. Shame about the lack of CASE though.