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Yes, and I play Squats and always win.

I also regularly play with Pure Grey Knights and beat Orks all the time! In fact its unpossible for me to lose!

I also have a 16" schlong and 7 Masters degrees and a pair of Sexy Twin Bisexual Girlfriends who are kinkier than a Dark Eldar.

Being on the internet is fun!

But to get back on topic:
It could be seen as either way, clarify with opponent first, wait for errata that will never come while sitting in the corner and crying.

And as drunkspleen said, nowhere does it say explicitly they are cumulative. I could say "right I subtracted one, so now I meet the criteria for each model (in that I must subtract one)".

Gwar! wrote:Yes, and I play Squats and always win.

I also regularly play with Pure Grey Knights and beat Orks all the time! In fact its unpossible for me to lose!

I also have a 16" schlong and 7 Masters degrees and a pair of Sexy Twin Bisexual Girlfriends who are kinkier than a Dark Eldar.

Being on the internet is fun!

But to get back on topic:
It could be seen as either way, clarify with opponent first, wait for errata that will never come while sitting in the corner and crying.

And as drunkspleen said, nowhere does it say explicitly they are cumulative. I could say "right I subtracted one, so now I meet the criteria for each model (in that I must subtract one)".

Words of the wise....

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and have people wonder if your slowed or not, as to open ones said mouth and remove all doubt."

jp400 wrote:Words of the wise....

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and have people wonder if your slowed or not, as to open ones said mouth and remove all doubt."

In Soviet Russia, Tanks hide behind YOU!

jp400 wrote:

Drunkspleen wrote:

The only reason why people are choosing to read it as cumulative is cause they play with imperial guard and get beaten by deep striking armies regularly.

Are you kidding me?

Really..... I play as a side army and have for years and im the one that usually lays the beat down with deep striking Melta/plasma vets.

Try re-reading the last line of the quote in that post, maybe it will all make more sense to you

Lets do some simple math yes?

-1+ -1= -2

Its not

-1+ -1= -1

This is about as relevant to my position regarding the way this rule functions as Gwar's image macros.

And the Gwar strikes again!

I say we just drop this thread until we can all look at it and decide for ourselves.

lol..

and Im done.

Cant argue with idiots.

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:And the Gwar strikes again!

I say we just drop this thread until we can all look at it and decide for ourselves.

Oh shush you sillybuns!

but the OP has posted the rule Verbitam (looking at my copy here) so feel free to base any and all opinions on that wording.

jp400 wrote:lol..

and Im done.

Cant argue with idiots.

Yay we win! but please, continue to answer Drunkspleen, or are you calling his thought out argument idiotic as well? I would like to see your reasoning as to why his interpretation of the rule is any less valid than yours.

Fellas! Let's not try to prove to the world that this game, coupled with anonymity, reverts our brains back to elementary school politics.

Look at me quoting RAW!

New IG Coxex wrote:Whilst the Officer of the Fleet is alive, your opponent must subtract 1 from all his reserve rolls

If it had said, "Whilst an Officer of the Fleet is alive...", I believe we would have been in the clear. Typical GW sloppiness. Added to the fact that they can ask you to re-roll outflanking board edge choices, this is a very sad day, especially for me and my planned Elysian force...

Looks like like the only way to counter is to take one or two Astropaths, which is undesirable. I hope this gets FAQ'd. Or Errata'd, for those of us who think they deserve a choice...

New IG Coxex wrote:Whilst the Officer of the Fleet is alive, your opponent must subtract 1 from all his reserve rolls

I'll agree that it is possible to read it as both ways.

I think it is entirely possible for it to be read that no matter if you have 1 or 2 officers that you will always only subtract 1 from your reserve rolls. Since it reads "while the Officer of Fleet is alive subtract one to your 1 reserve roll" this can easily be read that while there is atleast 1 Officer of Fleet alive that you subtract 1 for your reserve roll.

It can also be read that they do stack.

no where does it say they stack and no where does it say they don't stack. This will be one of those that you will have to talk to your opponent about before that game. Though in a friendly game and your opponent knows you are playing daemons or drop podding marines and brings two I do feel that you should be allow to hit your opponent in the face twice.

Do I think this is a really dumb idea of GW to allow you to totally control your opponents army? simple answer is yes. I do not mind changing tactics to face different armies. However I do mind if the core of my tactic (daemons or drop podding marines) is completely gone and their is no way for me to counter before I even get to the table.

Though if I am playing mech reserves eldar let me stay in reserve till turn 5. I'll go second and you won't be able to shoot at anything till turn 6, if their is a turn 6.

The problem with comparing this to the Eldar dex, is that the Eldar dex isn't consistent. Sure, dual Autarchs stack, but multiple Emboldens don't.

That being said, it appeaars by the wording that 2 Officers would stack..as much as I would hate for it to be true.

Alerian wrote:The problem with comparing this to the Eldar dex, is that the Eldar dex isn't consistent. Sure, dual Autarchs stack, but multiple Emboldens don't.

That's hardly being inconstant. Autarchs modify a roll, embolden calls for a re-roll. Since you cannot ever re-roll a re-rolled dice, it doesnt stack.

Alerian wrote:That being said, it appears by the wording that 2 Officers would stack..as much as I would hate for it to be true.

The wording is ambiguous as pointed out. if it had been "If AN officer" is alive, it would be clear. If they had said "Multiple officers effects are cumulative" it would have been clear. As it is it can be interpreted both ways because of the English language being a language of rules, which it then promptly ignores 98% of the time.

Plastic People wrote:Though if I am playing mech reserves eldar let me stay in reserve till turn 5. I'll go second and you won't be able to shoot at anything till turn 6, if their is a turn 6.

Sorry for asking but I know the Autarch lets you mod rolls but that doesn't stop the units coming on a roll of 6 T2 and so on and so forth. So it might not work. Worst Case Scenario is everything comes on piecemeal. (or is there a way for eldar to negatively modify/re-roll their reserve rolls?)

Alerian wrote:The problem with comparing this to the Eldar dex, is that the Eldar dex isn't consistent. Sure, dual Autarchs stack, but multiple Emboldens don't.

That being said, it appeaars by the wording that 2 Officers would stack..as much as I would hate for it to be true.

Multiple emboldens don't stack because the 'only one reroll per roll' rule isn't overridden. So that makes the unfortunate precedent lean towards the -1 stacking.

@ Gwar: No there is no way to re-roll failed or successful rolls (or atleast none that I'm aware of). That is just how bad my reserve rolls are typically.

Personally the feeling I get is that they didn't expect to have players using more than one company command squad.

If you look at the fluff for them it talks about how the one most senior officer is the company commander and then the fluff for the advisors I get the general feeling that there's no reason for them to double up really, two astropaths are just going to divine the same information while unless there are two fleets in orbit over the battlefield who aren't communicating with eachother a second master of the fleet wouldn't be much good.

Even the master of ordnance doubling up kind of seems odd since you would think one could communicate with all the available artillery. But his rules are alot more clear since he is just firing a weapon really.

I know fluff isn't rules, so don't try and tell me why it isn't and that it holds no weight, I know that, I'm just saying, that in this situation where it can be equally interpreted both ways, I personally tend to lean towards what makes sense, even if the rules don't always go that way.

Plastic People wrote:@ Gwar: No there is no way to re-roll failed or successful rolls (or atleast none that I'm aware of). That is just how bad my reserve rolls are typically.

Ohh I see. Would be a fun game I think.

IG Smug Arse(IGSA):So we gonna play hurr!
Plastic People: Ya Sure
-Do the rolls etc-
PP: Hmm, Spearhead Anhilalation huh?
IGSA: Yeah yeah lets go I won the roll so I go first hurrrrr!!
-IGSA Deploys-
PP: You done? Cool, I keep my Army In Reser..
IGSA: HURRRRRRRRRR! LOLLOLLOL! I haz Dual Officer of the Fleets ur Reserves are fuxxored nao HURRRRR!
PP: Just play...
-IGSA Moves his units, doesn't shoot-
PP: Ok, I roll reserves... No 6's
IGSA: HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! I IZ WINRAR!

-Time passes-
PP: ok so, T5, all my units come on automatically, I try to outflank with...
IGSA: HURRRRRRRRR! REROLL IT LULZ!
PP: Ok so, right, everything is on. I fire EVERYTHING at one unit.
-Plastic People has Wiped out a Unit-
PP: Yay, 1KP for me. lets see if the game goes to T6
-Plastic People Rolled a 1-
-Plastic People has won the Game, 1KP to 0KP-
IGSA: HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My bad... I didn't mean embolden, I meant enhance...oops

I meant that the Eldar dex lets Autarchs stack, but not multiple Enhance...hence the inconsistency

@Gwar: That would be one awesome game. I would so love to see that actually happen. Much lols would happen if a game ended like that.

Alerian wrote:My bad... I didn't mean embolden, I meant enhance...oops

I meant that the Eldar dex lets Autarchs stack, but not multiple Enhance...hence the inconsistency

Well, thats for game balance. And its ultra clear in that they don't stack, by adding the reminder. In essence, it adds +1 to the relevant stat. taking Multiple Enhances also Adds +1 to the stats, but adds it to the base stat, meaning that you don't get a cumulative effect, but you instead get redundancy.

-Sigh- I miss when Gav Thorpe Made 'dexs

Exactly, Enhance gives redundancy, and Autarchs are cumulative...all I am saying is that because of this, pointing to the Eldar dex as precedent for the Officer is not a good idea, as the dex isn't consistent. It is better to just look at the wording of the IG dex, which appears to allow a cumulative effect for the Officer.

Ok so ignoring the Eldar codex:
Whilst the officer of the fleet is alive, your opponent must subtract 1 from all of his reserve rolls. In addition, if any enemy units arrive using the outflank rule, you may choose to make your opponent re-roll the dice used to determine which board edge these squads arrives from.

I Roll for my Reserves on T2, needing a 4+
I roll a 5.
You have 2 Officers of the Fleet asking "Hey you! Minus one from that roll or we cut your pretty face!"
I subtract one from the dice
Both officers go "that's a good little boy" and leave me alone.
The end result is a 4, and my Unit comes on.

The wording doesn't say "for Every Officer of the fleet" just "the Officer of the Fleet"

It's poor wording at it's best and I honestly thought GW had hired Proof Readers. I was mistaken sadly.

And just before this boils down into bad blood, I don't particularly support either Interpretation. This is a matter that will need to be clarified pre-game (since GW sure as hell wont issue an Errata this side of the Nuclear Winter). I just like debating for debates sake.

Well at least everything has to come in on turn 5.

Otherwise it could be, well they would come in on a 1 but the minus -2 so if your lucky and the game continues you might get it in before its over.

At the vary least I am not paying for units that are not coming in.

It still really hurts daemons add this with some difficulty taking on tanks and i would rather face daemons hunters. Maybe that was what they were going for with this.

Alerian wrote:Exactly, Enhance gives redundancy, and Autarchs are cumulative...all I am saying is that because of this, pointing to the Eldar dex as precedent for the Officer is not a good idea, as the dex isn't consistent. It is better to just look at the wording of the IG dex, which appears to allow a cumulative effect for the Officer.

Sorry, but I think you are wrong.

The Enhance power say it is not cumulative in it's description. Neither the Master Strategist (Autach power) or the Intercept Reserves (Officer of the Fleet power) mentions anything of not allowing cumulatives.

So the Eldar codex is not inconsistent on that part and the comparison between the codices works. Still, GW has never been known for beeing overly consistent between codices before so I'd still not use it as any firm proof.

Personally I still think the powers works cumulatively RAW as they are worded but I also think the Intercept Reserves power is hugely overpowered against Chaos Daemons and therefore broken.

Can you have more than one officer of the fleet? I know the codex is out at many stores already. And I am also assuming that the OP brought this up because he read this in the new codex.

This should definably be discovered. As the wording does sound like you can only have one of them at a time.

padixon wrote:Can you have more than one officer of the fleet? I know the codex is out at many stores already. And I am also assuming that the OP brought this up because he read this in the new codex.

This should definably be discovered. As the wording does sound like you can only have one of them at a time.

You can take 2. The wording is just poorly written.

Yes. Each Company Command Squad can have one Officer of the Fleet (and one Astropath, one Master of Ordnance and two Bodyguards).
You can have as many Company Command Squads as you have HQ slots.

For 160pts & both your hq slots..

Its good but it does nothing for your own reserve rolls & then the points start racking up.

The tactic (I think its actually too powerful for the cost to be able to stack, simply based on what its able to accomplish) is a good denail stragegy but costly and will need an army based on standard deployement/static gunline - which I think will impair the new IG players.

Modquisition on.

WARNING
several posters on this thread have been warned privately about their posts. I will be monitoring this thread. If further posts are made that could be considered attacks on other posters, especially by parties given warning privately, then they will be suspended or banned. The #1 rule on Dakka is be polite. Avoid flaming and attack the merits of the argument, not the posters. if you cannot abide by that simple rule then simply don't post in a thread.

Again, this is a warning, anyone violating that warning on this thread will be subject to suspension, regardless of time on Dakka.

sourclams wrote:Either that or they hate Daemons. A Mech list that can take Inquisitorial Mystics and delay reserves. Aweso-oh wait.

Add that to 3 x Hydra + Heavy stubber. When the daemons do show up, if they land too close, they eat 30 shots per unit.

Er, no, add that to 7x plasma cannons and a battle cannon being shot by a Leman Russ Executioner its ablative tank buddy.

Keep in mind it happens when they land, so they're all bunched up in 'kill me' formation. Direct hit nails at least 9 models with the plasmas, and all of them with the battle cannon. After scatters I think it's something like 30 hits on average with AP2/3.