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The thing is, they are a really good unit in a take on all comers list like one probably should be fielding in a tourniment.

Just because the other guy might be armored, fearless, etc. doesn't suddenly make the S9 blast template worthless.

And in the event you draw other guard, eldar, Tau, or Orks not running in 30 boy strong mobs then WR suddenly becomes money in the bank.

Its not like the unit only has one use, it can be used against any army. Sure it may not be the ideal unit to use against X army. But if you go up against Y army you will have a powerful tool to use.

I think thats where PBS's attraction comes in. No matter who you draw up in a random game. It has some uses.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:Armies with no psychic defense and low LD are going to get raped any time the PBS is on the table.

True. And the biggest problem with PBS is that your opponent needs to cooperate by fielding low-Ld foot infantry without Psychic defense in the first place. And then, he's going to have to leave the PBS intact for it to do it's stuff. The sheer conditionality of their being good is their biggest weakness.

And as Polonius touched on, this is a combo piece. In many ways, the PBS is an Eldar unit, in that it requires coordination and support from 2 or 3 units to really shine (Transport to protect the PBS, something else to Pin or wound, and possibly a 3rd to perform escort duty). FWIW, in Magic, strong decks avoid 3-card combos, and try to focus on 2-card cluster combos... This may explain a certain additional amount of aggravation that I have with the unit.

When you get right down to it, PBS is a gambler's unit. It is either going to be awesome, because the stars are going to line up just so to support the uber combo going off, or it is going to be decidedly sub-par and fizzle. If you need to win big, and are willing to lose or draw a majority of your games to do so, then this is your kind of unit. If you are more inclined towards playing things that drive consistent effects, then this is not your kind of unit.

I try to avoid gambling, so I won't take this except as a "spoiler" unit for particular games.

If you want another magic comparison think of it as a "silver bullet." For those who don't get the reference that's a card or combo you put in your sideboard to shut down some of the more powerful combos in the current game. It isn't a game winner on its own but it can shut down your opponent's game winning strategy sometimes which can almost hand you a win.

Against certain builds this is a true silver bullet. Nob bikers for one, generally they won't have the necessary 11 models to grab fearless (and if they do go kill some of them) and then you can start pinning/routing them with complete ease. It's a great way for IG to deal with uber units (nob bikers, assault termies) and whilst, yes it requires a combo, the price of said combo is usually going to be considerably less than the uber unit you just dealt with. PBS + bassie battery is a damn sight cheaper than any nob biker unit and it isn't like you bought the bassie just for this combo either. In the case or ratlings they would be useless except for this combo but something like a bassie, griffon or devil dog can be part of this combo and/or have additional uses.

I view the template as more of a "ah I'm playing chaos, oh well I can still drop a template so my pts aren't entirely wasted."

So a silver bullet　against some top tier builds, a moderately useful support unit against others and "hey at least they can drop a template" against anything else. That's not bad and I think they're worth serious consideration for any guard player.

Plus their conceptually awesome!

I plan to use some in the near future. However, I will probably stop using them as soon as my local metagame picks up on the witch hunter inquisitor with Hammer the Witches.

Hmmm... in a team-tourney type situation (they seem to be getting popular nowadays) weaken resolve plus a dire-sword exarch (or Asurmen) would be funny to see

I think determining whether the PBS is a must take or not comes down to the type of game you are playing. Friendly game at your local store, it's up in the air about whether it's worth while or not.

In a tournament? I think you would be crazy to not take at least one given the top armies right now. And even if you play an army where there aren't any good targets to Weaken Resolve a STR 10 Large Blast is damn good for taking down heavy tanks, beats the heck out of a lascannon and if you're really lucky it might even be AP1. And keep in mind that while the Chimera they are riding in is a lot easier to kill than a Russ, the turret on a Russ doesn't pop off and run around the board after you blow the body up and the PBS could potentially hop into another Chimera on the next turn. A single melta gun is not going to slag a PBS the way it does a Russ and even if you lose a few of the members of the PBS it can still make solid use of the Weaken Resolve until it gets to below half or so, sure a unit checking on LD4 isn't insta-fail like LD2 is but it's damn close. A PBS offers a level of flexibility that is rare in 40k and as has been mentioned does change the metagame.

at best the blast is STR 9, you can only have 9 psykers in the squad

I think this thread largely misses the main purpose of the PBS (other than instantly winning against Nob Bikers), which is to push scoring units off of objectives and force assaulty armies to fall back.

The PBS is more like a Kustom Force Field than a 'battle cannon'; it doesn't do a whole lot directly, although it can via Soulstorm, but it works by reducing the number of wounds you have to inflict on the enemy. A KFF is great because it turns a 30 Boy mob into the equivalent of a 40 Boy mob. Likewise the PBS is great because it turns a 10 man non-fearless, non-stubborn squad into a 3 man squad, meaning you get to basically ignore 7 models as long as you can kill 3 of them.

Everyone keeps talking about the Weaken Resolve but their blast is pretty incredible on its own. 50% chance to be AP3 or less?

It's just an all around fantastic unit.

I think that the only thing keeping them from being "fantastic" is that you still need to roll for your abilities. Don't pass the psychic test? Well, you lost some guys. Rolled a 6 when trying to hurt those marines? Sucks for you. A KFF doesn't require you to roll for it to be awesome, but a PBS with unlucky rolls could be a waste of points. Not that it's trashy, just not quite "fantastic".

Ozymandias wrote:So far, you have ONE person saying it's a subpar ability and lots of people actually using it with great success so maybe, just maybe, it actually isn't a subpar ability.

Yeah I have to agree with Ozzy here.

I think John is right about the fact that the big blast the Psykers can do isn't the greatest thing in the world, but then again that's not the only reason you take them (meaning his logic is flawed - what a shock!). The Weaken Resolve is useful and it is powerful, but as powerful as any anti-leadership thing has ever been - very very good against about half the units in the game, and utterly useless against the other half. This isn't news, this is normal.

And it's going to take more than one person going "It sucks" (especially given the source in this instance) to make me change my tune on what is probably one of the few viable (if very specifically viable) Elites choices in the Guard Codex.