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I always ban Pink Models in my tournaments, because one of my mates plays Emperors Children. It's funny to make him insist they are Fuchsia and not Pink

Gwar! wrote:I always ban Pink Models in my tournaments, because one of my mates plays Emperors Children. It's funny to make him insist they are Fuchsia and not Pink

Since Eldar are nearly extinct I make Eldar players roll a d6 first and they can only play if they roll a 4+, otherwise they have to count as IG or Tau.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Since Eldar are nearly extinct I make Eldar players roll a d6 first and they can only play if they roll a 4+, otherwise they have to count as IG or Tau.

I'm half surprised that GW has never done something like give all Eldar a niggling injury (from Bloodbowl). Before the game, roll a d6 for each model. On a 1, that model has an old injury flare up and can't participate. Of course, to balance it (and them being Eldar), on a 5+, they are Fearless and gain Preferred Enemy.

You shoot away...and he's a ......

Respectfully, I don't see how this is poorly written at all. Its clean and simple. It literally says five may fire out of the hatch. No limits, no modifiers. the second sentence ifs fluff, but fortunately fluff that fits with the above. An IG squad is not going to have 5 specials/heavies so its technically accurate that some would be firing from the lasgun mounts.

Thats what I was saying. The Regular Grunts use the side lasguns, but in the Case of vets or Stormies, well, they are not so green, they know how to use the hatch better, and are able to stagger their fire.

Fluff wise they know the "litany of keeping the trigger deepressed"...

As a general rule, we should probably assume anytime GW uses the phrase "... In reality... " we can assume that it does not apply to the rules, but rather fluff. In no case should what little plastic space soldiers do be confused with "reality" in game terms.

This is about as lame as the grey knight NFW are two handed when it is clearly written in it's description that it's one, and saying you don't get cover saves with the psycannon. I hate they have to waste space to FAQ this garbage that is clear as day instead of stuff thats needs it.

I agree that 5 models can shoot. Even if it were 5 heavy weapons which I do not think is possible anyways due to squad limits but I would say you could fire 3 las cannons and two other weapons if it were possible to fit more in the squad.

My arguement is that IG now treat HVY wpns as ONE model with two wounds. If one claims they cannot be treated at one for shooting then, OGRYN which also count as two for transport however with 1 MORE wound than a team, would only be allowed to have two in thier squad shoot and maybe an attatched character. I would say 5 ogryn could shoot out of the top. Leaving one cowering inside.

Yes, it has 5 fire ports.
Yes, they're standard fire ports, they're just modelled to look like lasguns, feel free to shoot missiles, plasma, psychic powers, ...
No, you can't use best fire port as 'count as' for the other 4. You'll have to properly aim the tank at the target if you want both sides of FP's to have LOS on the target, just like a sponson tank. You'll have to choose whether you want to have optimal defence by aiming the front arc to cover most enemy AT, or optimal offence by aiming the 5 fire ports for los instead of 3.
Also passengers shooting from inside the chimera do not ignore the turret (or other parts of the tank) for LOS purposes.

Razerous wrote:

Homer S wrote: Stuff

Really?

Where does it say in those rules the models cannot fire anything but lasguns. Where does it even suggest they can only fire lasguns.

Firepoints: Five models can fire from the Chimera's top hatch...

Right? Fine? Understand this part? Good. Firepoints, models firing, etc.

... In reality, several are firing from fixed lasgun emplacements along either flank, but for simplicity we assume all shots are taken from the hatch.

This part is purely clarification. There are no more (additional) instructions. What part of this rule are you not understanding?

No. All of this text is in the RULEbook, under the RULES for a Chimera, under the RULES for fire points. It's ALL the rules, and every part of it must be taken into consideration when firing your chimera. You can't just decide that only the first line counts, and ignore the 'clarification' sections.

It seems quite clear that, when five models are firing, SEVERAL are firing the fixed lasguns. You can't 'replace' the lasguns with plasmaguns any more than you can 'replace' the multilaser with your squad lascannon. Of course, because it's a poorly worded rule, it's now up to the individual players to decide what consitutes 'several' when five models are firing, or up to the the TO...

@ OP - It's the TO's decision of course. Maybe he could have been a bit better with his wording, but it's clear that he's attempting to write a perceived imbalance. If people started attempting to fire his Heavy Weapon Squads' three Lascannons from the top hatch, I think I'd have a problem with that, too. Even though it's RAW. Yes, he's picking a single army and applying an arbitrary restriction, but it's no different from the TO 'electing' to disallow Nob Bikers, which i would see as a perfectly justified move. It's his Tournament after all...

Nostromo - no, it does NOT have 5 fire points. It has ONE fire point that five models may fire out of.

The turret would indeed block LOS, however much like shooting from an open topped vehicle you just need to measure from one spot.

Whilst for the simplicity of game play a heavy weapons team is a single model this does not imply that a Mortar team of three weapons can fire out of the hatch, simply for the reasons above.

Now, just as a silly question, how goes a Mortar Squad -get in the Chimera in the first place, as HW Squad, doesn't get a transport option..

It seems quite clear that, when five models are firing, SEVERAL are firing the fixed lasguns. You can't 'replace' the lasguns with plasmaguns any more than you can 'replace' the multilaser with your squad lascannon.

Well, if it's such a clear cut rule, which SEVERAL are they? Seems to me the answer is the ones who don't have anything better to shoot - at a maximum IMHO you can insist that 2 guardsmen have to take lasgun shots.

BTW, imagine the following scene,in a dark cramped chimera, stuffed to the bulkheads with sweating ogryn, a bonehead asks his commisar... "WHY OGG AND THROG GOT TO USE LITTLE PEW-PEW GUNS?"

Homer S wrote:

Gwar! wrote:The part about the side lasguns is Fluff, nothing more. As pointed out, the rules state:

Fire Points: Five models can fire from the Chimera top hatch..

Done. End. Finito!

Except that all of the text following the heading Fire Points are rules. You cannot say it is fluff because it is written as prose

Homer

Um, as opposed to having been written in verse? With very few exceptions, virtually all of the fluff in the codices and main rule book are written in prose. GW has, for all of its existence (at least back to 1988 when I started), liberally interspersed rules and fluff in its "rules" sections, with nothing like italics or any other notation to differentiate between the two.


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Frazzled wrote:Respectfully, I don't see how this is poorly written at all. Its clean and simple. It literally says five may fire out of the hatch. No limits, no modifiers. the second sentence ifs fluff, but fortunately fluff that fits with the above. An IG squad is not going to have 5 specials/heavies so its technically accurate that some would be firing from the lasgun mounts.

This is a very important point, because there is no limitation in the rules as to how many of the five are firing a weapon other than a las-gun. If you happen to have four special weapons in the squad, then, obviously, only those four may fire something other than a las-gun. The other firing model can be assumed to fire from one of the fixed las-gun emplacements.

This satisfies both the rules portion and the fluff portion of the Chimaera firing points entry.

An IG squad is not going to have 5 specials/heavies so its technically accurate that some would be firing from the lasgun mounts.

Vets with, Harker, HW Team, 3 Specials. Vets could be Shotgun Armed, Stormies have Hot Shots, Ogryn get Ripper Guns, Command Squads can be loaded with 4 Specials + Plasma Pistol (or MOO). The number of things that you might want to shoot from a chimera other than lasguns are legion. (But not a HW Squad, they don't get transport)

ArbitorIan wrote:No. All of this text is in the RULEbook, under the RULES for a Chimera, under the RULES for fire points. It's ALL the rules, and every part of it must be taken into consideration when firing your chimera. You can't just decide that only the first line counts, and ignore the 'clarification' sections.

Actually, the first two words of the sentence you are talking about are "In reality..." This makes it very clear that the sentence is fluff, not clarification, since as mentioned earlier, confusing the game with reality is Bad News.

Lanceradvanced wrote:(But not a HW Squad, they don't get transport)

Of course, they could just get into someone else's Chimera and then shoot out of it. Maybe not a good strategy, but certainly possible.

i dont understand all the confusion. 5 models fire from the rear hatch if the chimera has moved 6 inches or less. period.

REAR HATCH?! clearly you have no clue what you are talking about. Great they can open fire on thier fellow guardsmen behind them.

smart_alex wrote:REAR HATCH?! clearly you have no clue what you are talking about. Great they can open fire on thier fellow guardsmen behind them.

hey watch your attitude. No, it's not the rear hatch they fire from, but it doesn't matter. 5 Guardsmen can fire whatever weapons they have.

smart_alex wrote:REAR HATCH?! clearly you have no clue what you are talking about. Great they can open fire on thier fellow guardsmen behind them.

Sure he does, it's the HATCH at the rear of the tank, as opposed to the -DOOR- and/or -RAMP- at the rear of the tank...

Wait so I could potentially put a HWT in a chimera and fire 3 lascannons out the top hatch plus a hull HB and a turret multilaser?

Yes. Or for ten points cheaper you could just buy a Vendetta with door heavy bolters.

/Shrug

Yes Ender, its rather nice now.

On a side note, what is the general consensus in here, can they 3 LCs fire if the Chimera moves 6"?

No, absolutely definitely 100% not.

If the vehicle moves then the unit inside counts as moving as well. Why would you think any different?

Ender wrote:Wait so I could potentially put a HWT in a chimera and fire 3 lascannons out the top hatch plus a hull HB and a turret multilaser?

Potentially, if you could figure out how to get them a transport...

Lanceradvanced wrote:

Ender wrote:Wait so I could potentially put a HWT in a chimera and fire 3 lascannons out the top hatch plus a hull HB and a turret multilaser?

Potentially, if you could figure out how to get them a transport...

How about... putting them in another squads Chimera?

Gwar! wrote:How about... putting them in another squads Chimera?

Isn't there a rule about dedicated transports still?

Lanceradvanced wrote:

Gwar! wrote:How about... putting them in another squads Chimera?

Isn't there a rule about dedicated transports still?

Not since 5th edition came out. Are you still playing 4th ed? They cannot start in the Chimera True, but they can Embark T1

Gwar! wrote:Not since 5th edition came out. Are you still playing 4th ed? They cannot start in the Chimera True, but they can Embark T1

It seems to vary from game to game, depending on the armies involved and how much IA stuff hits the table..