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Nurglitch wrote:

Ghaz wrote:No. It does not say figure out the vehicle's rate of movement by measuring. It says that the vehicle moves at the highest speed it's capable of and that will never be combat speed.

Quoted for truth.

Sadly it is not true, as a Monolith cannot move faster than combat Speed and is able to ram

All the reference to moving at the highest possible speed is doing is removing the part in tank shock where the player declares a distance to move, what with ramming being a form of tank shock and all. If the vehicle moves 4", it has still only moved 4" and will be subject to all of the rules for moving 4".

Read the rules on page 57. How 'fast' a vehicle actually moved is based on the distance traveled.

I can declare cruising speed but only end up going combat speed if my actual movement was only up to 6"

Page 57. Very clear.

Trekari wrote:Read the rules on page 57. How 'fast' a vehicle actually moved is based on the distance traveled.

I can declare cruising speed but only end up going combat speed if my actual movement was only up to 6"

Page 57. Very clear.

Quoted for truth.

Ramming makes you move at max speed. If something stops at 6" or less you moved at combat speed per page 57.

You actually never declare which speed you will move before you move except when you make a Tank shock (not Ram). You just measure and move and the distance determines the speed.

Gwar! wrote:But if it never gets to move at Cruising speed because it was stopped by ramming, how can it count as moving cruising speed?

Possibly because the distance moved does not necessarily matter to consider what 'speed' you are moving at? Their is apparently precedent for that you know...

imweasel wrote:

Gwar! wrote:But if it never gets to move at Cruising speed because it was stopped by ramming, how can it count as moving cruising speed?

Possibly because the distance moved does not necessarily matter to consider what 'speed' you are moving at? Their is apparently precedent for that you know...

Your condescending attitude is not welcome here

If you would care to look at Page 57, you will see the rules for vehilces moving, which I shall quote here for clarity:

Page 57 wrote:The distance a vehicle moves influences the amount of weapons it may fire and how easy a target the vehicle will be if assaulted, as described later.

• A vehicle that remains stationary will be able to bring its full firepower to bear on the enemy.

• A vehicle that travels up to 6" is moving at combat speed. This represents the vehicle advancing slowly in order to keep firing, albeit with reduced firepower.

• A vehicle that travels more than 6" and up to 12" is moving at cruising speed. This represents the vehicle concentrating on moving as fast as possible without firing its guns.

As you can see, the bold parts show that it is the actual distance moved that determines the "Speed" a Vehicle has moved. Nothing in the Tank Shock rules on Page 68 change this. The only Caveat is that you must move at least combat speed (that is, between 0.00...001" and 6"). Yes you "Declare" how many Inches you are going to move it (not what "speed" you want to move it), but that does not change the rules on Page 57 for determining how fast you actually moved. If you declare you are going to move 12" for the ram (say, to possibly catch 2 Vehicles with it) move only 4" and fail to destroy the target vehicle with the ram, You Stop. You have only moved 4 Inches, and therefore you are moving at Combat Speed

Gwar! wrote:

imweasel wrote:

Gwar! wrote:But if it never gets to move at Cruising speed because it was stopped by ramming, how can it count as moving cruising speed?

Possibly because the distance moved does not necessarily matter to consider what 'speed' you are moving at? Their is apparently precedent for that you know...

Your condescending attitude is not welcome here

If you would care to look at Page 57, you will see the rules for vehilces moving, which I shall quote here for clarity:

Page 57 wrote:The distance a vehicle moves influences the amount of weapons it may fire and how easy a target the vehicle will be if assaulted, as described later.

• A vehicle that remains stationary will be able to bring its full firepower to bear on the enemy.

• A vehicle that travels up to 6" is moving at combat speed. This represents the vehicle advancing slowly in order to keep firing, albeit with reduced firepower.

• A vehicle that travels more than 6" and up to 12" is moving at cruising speed. This represents the vehicle concentrating on moving as fast as possible without firing its guns.

As you can see, the bold parts show that it is the actual distance moved that determines the "Speed" a Vehicle has moved. Nothing in the Tank Shock rules on Page 68 change this. The only Caveat is that you must move at least combat speed (that is, between 0.00...001" and 6"). Yes you "Declare" how many Inches you are going to move it (not what "speed" you want to move it), but that does not change the rules on Page 57 for determining how fast you actually moved. If you declare you are going to move 12" for the ram (say, to possibly catch 2 Vehicles with it) move only 4" and fail to destroy the target vehicle with the ram, You Stop. You have only moved 4 Inches, and therefore you are moving at Combat Speed

100% disagree

1) Ramming distance isn't declared
2) you have to accelarate to full speed and can't stop willfully on your own, if you keep destroying/tankshocking what you encounter, then you move on to maximum distance.

1hadhq wrote:1) Ramming distance isn't declared

Yes, it is.

"Ramming is a special type of tank shock move and is executed the same way, except that the tank must always move at the highest speed it is capable of." You Still have to declare, but you must Declare you are going to attempt to move as far as you can.

2) you have to accelarate to full speed and can't stop willfully on your own, if you keep destroying/tankshocking what you encounter, then you move on to maximum distance.

Yes, I never said that you didn't? I said that if the Ram move is Stopped (because you failed to blow up the enemy tank), the vehicle counts as moving however far it moved. If this happens to be 4", the vehicle counts as Moving 4" and no More. Therefore it moved at Combat Speed, and Passengers my Fire.

Gwar! wrote:

1hadhq wrote:1) Ramming distance isn't declared

Yes, it is.

"Ramming is a special type of tank shock move and is executed the same way, except that the tank must always move at the highest speed it is capable of." You Still have to declare, but you must Declare you are going to attempt to move as far as you can.

2) you have to accelarate to full speed and can't stop willfully on your own, if you keep destroying/tankshocking what you encounter, then you move on to maximum distance.

Yes, I never said that you didn't? I said that if the Ram move is Stopped (because you failed to blow up the enemy tank), the vehicle counts as moving however far it moved. If this happens to be 4", the vehicle counts as Moving 4" and no More. Therefore it moved at Combat Speed, and Passengers my Fire.

Sounds better yet.

Still the passengers count as moved.
And he needs to resolve the ramming move without getting crew shaken/stunned, otherwise they may not shoot anyways.
Risky move with transports low front armor.

Remember that 40k often looks at things in ways that do not agree with the real world, but we need to go along with the rules way of looking at things. The rules look at speed only as a measure of how far the vehicle travels. In the real world we dont look at speed that way, but 40k isnt the real world.

You aim your vehicle, declare your intent and move the vehicle. If you are stopped and cant move any farther then the only way we have to measure your speed in game terms is your distance moved. We have no other way to measure speed in this case.



Sliggoth

Trekari wrote:Friendly models are impassable terrain. Is a tank allowed to move through impassable terrain?

A Ram is a special type of Tank Shock.
You can Ram and Tank Shock together.
You can't Tank Shock through friendly troops.
When attempting to Ram, you must move at max possible speed.

Therefore, if you have a max speed of cruising, and there are friendly infantry models within 12 inches, you can't Ram, because you would Tank Shock your own troops.

As I read the rules, it would be allowable to declare a Ram if there is a friendly vehicle within your max movement, and that you would stop at the friendly vehicle. But, if there are friendly infantry models in the way, you can't Ram.

Gwar! wrote:If you would care to look at Page 57, you will see the rules for vehilces moving, which I shall quote here for clarity:

Page 57 wrote:The distance a vehicle moves influences the amount of weapons it may fire and how easy a target the vehicle will be if assaulted, as described later.

• A vehicle that remains stationary will be able to bring its full firepower to bear on the enemy.

• A vehicle that travels up to 6" is moving at combat speed. This represents the vehicle advancing slowly in order to keep firing, albeit with reduced firepower.

• A vehicle that travels more than 6" and up to 12" is moving at cruising speed. This represents the vehicle concentrating on moving as fast as possible without firing its guns.

As you can see, the bold parts show that it is the actual distance moved that determines the "Speed" a Vehicle has moved. Nothing in the Tank Shock rules on Page 68 change this. The only Caveat is that you must move at least combat speed (that is, between 0.00...001" and 6"). Yes you "Declare" how many Inches you are going to move it (not what "speed" you want to move it), but that does not change the rules on Page 57 for determining how fast you actually moved. If you declare you are going to move 12" for the ram (say, to possibly catch 2 Vehicles with it) move only 4" and fail to destroy the target vehicle with the ram, You Stop. You have only moved 4 Inches, and therefore you are moving at Combat Speed

The actual distance moved is not always used to determine 'speed'.

When deep striking you deploy on the table and are considered to have moved at 'cruising speed'. How do you account for that? I believe that's one precedent that 'the actual distance moved' does not determine 'speed'.

Ground vehicles on a road that move 18" are considered to have moved at 'cruising speed' (INAT FAQ v2.2). How do you account for that? I believe that's a second precedent that 'the actual distance moved' does not determine 'speed'.

There are probably at least 1 or 2 other examples that 'the actual distance moved' does not determine speed. Ramming could very well be another one.

Now having said that, I don't disagree with what you are saying. As a matter of fact, possibly by RAW, but certainly at least by precedent, you are correct. Page 63 under VEHICLES AND ASSAULTS/ASSAULTING VEHICLES/Rolling to hit against vehicles, first paragraph under the chart:

Note: when assessing how far a vehicle has moved,
only take into account the actual distance covered from
its original position.

Now I understand that this is under assaulting vehicles and I also understand that GW does not use or set precedents, but please stop trying to shove 'the actual distance moved determines speed' down people's throats.

As far 'If you declare you are going to move 12 inches', I believe by raw you must declare the maximum number of inches the vehicle you are going to ram with that it's capable of moving. So if 12" is the max, then 'declaring' 12" is ok. If it's 6", then 6" it is. If it's 24" (fast skimmer) you must 'declare' 24". I don't think you get to really 'declare'. That decision has been taken out of your hands. First paragraph on right side of pg 69:

Ramming is a special form of tank shock move and is
executed the same way, except that the tank must
always move at the highest speed it is capable of.

I think the intent is that the vehicle 'moves' at it's top Speed (combat, cruising, or flat out), regardless of the actual distance the model moves. But, it doesn't seem to be RAW.