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BlackSpike wrote:

Gwar! wrote:the reverse means People with pistols and CCW don't get the bonus attacks, as Pistols are never stated as one handed.

P. 29, BRB:
"Pistol Weapons
Pistol weapons are light enough to be carried and fired one-handed"

Pretty explicit, if you ask me.

And since when did shooting rules apply in Close Combat?

Please, if you are going to quote rules, quote the correct ones.
Furthermore, you are not even quoting the actual Pistol rule. The actual rule states:

All pistols are effectively Assault 1 weapons with a range of 12' (unless differently specified in their profile). In addition a pistol counts as a close combat weapon in the Assault phase.

See, nothing about one handed there. That means, accordion to Ghaz, Pistols do not give a bonus attack.

Please! I have an actual rules question that is actually related to the thread. By replying to Ghaz or anyone that agrees with him in this topic, you are being trollbait.

EDIT! Page 42
Two normal close combat weapons
These models gain one bonus attack

It doesn't even say two single-handed CCWs. It says 2 normal ones.
QED
a weapon doesn't need to say one-handed.
/argument.

Gwar, chill out. Its a close combat weapon, meaning it adds an attack. What do you want here?

nintendoeats wrote:Gwar, chill out. Its a close combat weapon, meaning it adds an attack. What do you want here?

I know it is. I am just pointing out what Ghaz is using to claim that they do not give a bonus attack, which is utter nonsense.

Deffgob wrote:Please! I have an actual rules question that is actually related to the thread. By replying to Ghaz or anyone that agrees with him in this topic, you are being trollbait.

EDIT! Page 42
Two normal close combat weapons
These models gain one bonus attack

It doesn't even say two single-handed CCWs. It says 2 normal ones.
QED
a weapon doesn't need to say one-handed.
/argument.

QFT. However Ghaz says because it is under the part "FIGHTING WITH TWO SINGLE HANDED WEAPONS", weapons must be explicitly stated to be 1 handed or not give a bonus attack.

Edit: No, the Irony that I have done more arguing for this point than the people who actually think this is not lost on me.

-Le Sigh-

Gwar! wrote:

BlackSpike wrote:

Gwar! wrote:the reverse means People with pistols and CCW don't get the bonus attacks, as Pistols are never stated as one handed.

P. 29, BRB:
"Pistol Weapons
Pistol weapons are light enough to be carried and fired one-handed"

Pretty explicit, if you ask me.

And since when did shooting rules apply in Close Combat?

Please, if you are going to quote rules, quote the correct ones.
Furthermore, you are not even quoting the actual Pistol rule. The actual rule states:

All pistols are effectively Assault 1 weapons with a range of 12' (unless differently specified in their profile). In addition a pistol counts as a close combat weapon in the Assault phase.

See, nothing about one handed there. That means, accordion to Ghaz, Pistols do not give a bonus attack.

How can I not be quoting the "actual Pistol rule" when it is copied verbatim from the Pistol Weapons section of the rulebook?
My interpretation, which seems to differ from your interpretation, is that "carried and fired one-handed" is explicit enough to classify it as a one-handed weapon.
The rule then goes on to state that it counts as a CCW. Still one-handed, as no explicit change is mentioned.

Does a two-handed CCW qualify as abnormal?

I would hope that he isn't trying to push this on the basis of the title of the rules section. For the sake of my faith in mankind, I will continue to think that he simply misremembered what the book actually said, and that any time now he will come into the thread and admit his mistake.

nintendoeats wrote:Does a two-handed CCW qualify as abnormal?

yes.

BlackSpike wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

BlackSpike wrote:

Gwar! wrote:the reverse means People with pistols and CCW don't get the bonus attacks, as Pistols are never stated as one handed.

P. 29, BRB:
"Pistol Weapons
Pistol weapons are light enough to be carried and fired one-handed"

Pretty explicit, if you ask me.

And since when did shooting rules apply in Close Combat?

Please, if you are going to quote rules, quote the correct ones.
Furthermore, you are not even quoting the actual Pistol rule. The actual rule states:

All pistols are effectively Assault 1 weapons with a range of 12' (unless differently specified in their profile). In addition a pistol counts as a close combat weapon in the Assault phase.

See, nothing about one handed there. That means, accordion to Ghaz, Pistols do not give a bonus attack.

How can I not be quoting the "actual Pistol rule" when it is copied verbatim from the Pistol Weapons section of the rulebook?
My interpretation, which seems to differ from your interpretation, is that "carried and fired one-handed" is explicit enough to classify it as a one-handed weapon.
The rule then goes on to state that it counts as a CCW. Still one-handed, as no explicit change is mentioned.

The fact you call it "my interpretation" shows you have not bothered to read a damn thing in this thread. Also, you DID notice that the first Paragraph of each Weapon type is what we like to call "Fluff" while the second and subsequent ones are the actual rules?

And again, they can be "fired one handed". It does not say "they may be used in a Swirling meleé one handed".

Deffgob wrote:I would hope that he isn't trying to push this on the basis of the title of the rules section. For the sake of my faith in mankind, I will continue to think that he simply misremembered what the book actually said, and that any time now he will come into the thread and admit his mistake.

I'll take your sanity now Please, this is not the first time this has come up, and the posts were of the same nature the first time round.

Deffgob wrote:Please! I have an actual rules question that is actually related to the thread. By replying to Ghaz or anyone that agrees with him in this topic, you are being trollbait.

EDIT! Page 42
Two normal close combat weapons
These models gain one bonus attack

It doesn't even say two single-handed CCWs. It says 2 normal ones.
QED
a weapon doesn't need to say one-handed.
/argument.

Earlier on P.42 it states under the heading Normal Close Combat Weapons:
"Weapons like chainswords, rifle butts combat blades ..."

and then clarifies under Fighting With Two Single-Handed Weapons :
"a two-handed weapon (such as a rifle butt)".

So is a rifle-butt a normal CCW? Is it one handed? Are all normal CCW one-handed?

but... but it says very clearly that if a model has 2 normal CCWs, they get +1 attack... Can't they see that?

Deffgob wrote:but... but it says very clearly that if a model has 2 normal CCWs, they get +1 attack... Can't they see that?

Exactly. The only time it comes into play is if it specifically mentioned as two handed (which denies the bonus attack)

So, does a Grabba-Stick count as a CCW (specifically, for the purpose of getting +1A for combining it with a pistol)?

Can we get back to the part where we decide if a Grabba stick is a CCW?

They are listed as Weapons, but are never specified to be Close Combat Weapons of any sort. The codex actually states: "A Model with a Grabba Stikk Attacks Normally, but each assault phase he can cause a single model in base contact to lose an attack"

Nowhere does it state it is a Close combat weapon at all. Compare to grot prods, which state he is armed with a "Poisoned Weapon" (and as such a CCW).

So, No, Grabba Stikks do NOT allow for +1 Attacked when combined with a Pistol because they are not a CCW at all.

Gwar! wrote:They are listed as Weapons, but are never specified to be Close Combat Weapons of any sort. The codex actually states: "A Model with a Grabba Stikk Attacks Normally, but each assault phase he can cause a single model in base contact to lose an attack"

Nowhere does it state it is a Close combat weapon at all. Compare to grot prods, which state he is armed with a "Poisoned Weapon" (and as such a CCW).

So, No, Grabba Stikks do NOT allow for +1 Attacked when combined with a Pistol because they are not a CCW at all.

lol, I've been waiting for a page and a half for someone to agree with me on that, or in the very least try to tell me that I'm wrong.