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mikhaila wrote:Although they are not below the CC in the chain of command, IG commanders do generaly run general stratagy, not Space Marines. Particularly in a mixed group.

Agreed, but then 'orders' as they are played in 40k isn't strategy, that's small unit tactics.

Strategy is "Have the BloodAngels lead the assualt and take the citadel", tactics is "would those 5 marines over there please, please do this for me?"

Or in the case of Space Wolves
"What ever you do, do not assault that Bunker. I'm warning you, Assault that bunker and I will get very, very cross!"

I think it goes back to what Gwar! said about the PCS ordering the CCS. When it's not someone directly under their command, its more like providing information. Particularly fire on my target which is described as 'access to orbital cameras, auspexes or even a good pair of field glasses'. (Paraphrased)

With a group like the Grey Knights, it's more like 'Look out sir!' then 'go do this!"

Best advice to anyone playing in a tournament is the usual "Check with the TO beforehand."

This is definitely going to be played differently in different places, and I doubt we get any FAQ on it from GW before 'Ardboys in a couple of weeks.

mikhaila wrote:Best advice to anyone playing in a tournament is the usual "Check with the TO beforehand."

This is definitely going to be played differently in different places, and I doubt we get any FAQ on it from GW before 'Ardboys in a couple of weeks.

True. I would be interested to see what the rulings would be at the finals though. That at least should be an answer from GW. Unless they are dragging Hank or someone in to run it.

Wow. Marines generally do their own thing, so lets not get all fluffy and bent out of shape about who takes orders from who, shall we? Especially since it has absolutely no bearing on the rules whatsoever.

Any one who reads the Guard Codex and then thinks that orders cannot be issued to allied forces just isn't reading the codex. The Orders rules are crystal clear in allowing orders to be given to allies - there's not a shred of RAW to support any onther conclusion. Some of those orders may be less than useful, but the phrase "friendly unit" with no modifiers attached is pretty much beyond quesion.

It's possible that this is a case of GW not taking into account inquisitorial allies, or more importantly the new-ish trend of doubles tournies, but that's all very sidebar. The rules are perfectly clear and they allow allies to benefit from orders.

Someone was bent out of shape? Sense the rule was pritty clear and decided, I just wanted to include some fluff to help people who disagreed come to terms with the RAW.

Mars.Techpriest wrote:Someone was bent out of shape? Sense the rule was pritty clear and decided, I just wanted to include some fluff to help people who disagreed come to terms with the RAW.

-Ravages your Fluff- SPESS WHOLVES TAEK NO ORDUURS!

I would say that the use of "... any friendly unit..." is pretty open and shut. It doesn't say "... any friendly Imperial Guard unit..." or something of that specific, makes it pretty clear of the intent.

Fluff wise, an order does not necessarily mean the person HAS to outrank you for you to take it. It may simply be a very good suggestion in official form. For instance, Fire On My Target and Bring it Down are very good suggestions, and the advice of the Officers and the resources they are providing may prove useful to their allies, such as Inquisitors and Space Marines.

As for "Move, Move, Move!" you can assume that they are providing moral support for their ally, quoting uplifting passages from religious documents or pointing out troublesome pot holes. Incoming order is another friendly bit of advice, and Get Back in the Fight is meant to shame other armies who are supposed to be more courageous than the Guard to return to their duty to the Emperor.

I still find it funny that in a Doubles game You could give an Order to Khân, a Carnifex or an Eldar Farseer

Skinnattittar wrote:I would say that the use of "... any friendly unit..." is pretty open and shut. It doesn't say "... any friendly Imperial Guard unit..." or something of that specific, makes it pretty clear of the intent.

It might also represent a bit more thought towards support for popular casual formats like massive APOC games where different armies are teamed up.

Fluff wise, an order does not necessarily mean the person HAS to outrank you for you to take it. It may simply be a very good suggestion in official form. For instance, Fire On My Target and Bring it Down are very good suggestions, and the advice of the Officers and the resources they are providing may prove useful to their allies, such as Inquisitors and Space Marines.

As for "Move, Move, Move!" you can assume that they are providing moral support for their ally, quoting uplifting passages from religious documents or pointing out troublesome pot holes. Incoming order is another friendly bit of advice, and Get Back in the Fight is meant to shame other armies who are supposed to be more courageous than the Guard to return to their duty to the Emperor.

Indeed, fluff is fluff. Mechanically those "orders" are just communicated tactics. You could rename "Fire on My Target" and "Bring It Down" as "Spotter" or "Forward Observer," while "Move, Move, Move!" could simply be renamed, "We'll cover you!"

The fact that a Junior Officer can issue an "Order" to a Senior Officer makes it clear that the idea of pulling rank on subordinates is just the most common fluff interpretation dressing up the mechanic - not a restriction on how the ability is applied to units in the game.

- Marty Lund

I am going into a doubles tourney in the not too distant future, and we are running IG/Nids, with a Genestealer Cult theme, so the orders would be from the Magus or Patriarch (command squad/commisar/whatnot) telling the Genestealers where to go and what to do.

I still like the idea of furious charge on a toxin-saced unit of stealers... oh man, WS6 S6 I7 rending, yea, that unit i just ran into is dead.

Mars.Techpriest wrote:Someone was bent out of shape? Sense the rule was pritty clear and decided, I just wanted to include some fluff......

mlund wrote:

Skinnattittar wrote:I would say that the use of "... any friendly unit..." is pretty open and shut. It doesn't say "... any friendly Imperial Guard unit..." or something of that specific, makes it pretty clear of the intent.

It might also represent a bit more thought towards support for popular casual formats like massive APOC games where different armies are teamed up.

Fluff wise, an order does not necessarily mean the person HAS to outrank you for you to take it. It may simply be a very good suggestion in official form. For instance, Fire On My Target and Bring it Down are very good suggestions, and the advice of the Officers and the resources they are providing may prove useful to their allies, such as Inquisitors and Space Marines.

As for "Move, Move, Move!" you can assume that they are providing moral support for their ally, quoting uplifting passages from religious documents or pointing out troublesome pot holes. Incoming order is another friendly bit of advice, and Get Back in the Fight is meant to shame other armies who are supposed to be more courageous than the Guard to return to their duty to the Emperor.

Indeed, fluff is fluff. Mechanically those "orders" are just communicated tactics. You could rename "Fire on My Target" and "Bring It Down" as "Spotter" or "Forward Observer," while "Move, Move, Move!" could simply be renamed, "We'll cover you!"

The fact that a Junior Officer can issue an "Order" to a Senior Officer makes it clear that the idea of pulling rank on subordinates is just the most common fluff interpretation dressing up the mechanic - not a restriction on how the ability is applied to units in the game.

- Marty Lund

At first I was thinking fluff-wise "no way". But you guys make a great point. So I say its "okay"