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That Penny Arcade cartoon made me like Penny Arcade, and I think M. Night is a good director...

Don't hurt me because I liked Lady in the Water :(

Cheese Elemental wrote:I actually prefer He-Man, but I don't watch it because my friends think it's homoerotic.

Eh, they don't know what they're talking about.

Wrexasaur wrote:I cannot follow these new shows, I remember being just as baffled by the content as any of these other new shows. Granted it is a pretty cut and dry plot, so it is relatively easier to understand than Ben 10 for instance.

Frankly, if I cannot understand what the heck is going on, I might as well be watching Dragonball Z on fast forward for the really epic action packed feeling. These cartoons just talk waaaay too much, and never really get anywhere. Another baddie, not the classic villian, but a twisted and confused villian at every corner. What happened to good old fashioned taking over the world?

Anung I'm with Wrexy here on the shows. I've seen several. I just couldn't get into them. Its not good when your absent mindedly hoping someone puts an arrow through the primary character''s skull he's so annoying....

Cheese Elemental wrote:I hope it stays true to the show, which is the most awesome animated show I've ever seen. Yes, I'm a turbonerd, and I consider it to be even better than my other favourites like Death Note

Just as planned. Also, i agree it is awesome.

greenskin lynn wrote:we should start a poll, or a betting pool on how important of a role m. night will give himself

Answer: Momo. Anybody who watches the show will see the resemblance.

Shamfrit wrote: I think M. Night is a good director...

Don't hurt me because I liked Lady in the Water :(

I noticed something about M. Knight movies. They all have water as a key part. I will esplain.

1. The Village: The guy falls down a well and drowns.
2. Unbreakable: The main character is unable to be killed, but water can drown him.
3. Lady in the Water: DO I have to explain?
4. Signs: Water burns the aliens.

And that's about all that I can remember.

Yeah, it's something I'd picked up on, people go to see his movies with the utterly wrong expectations, action, he is not, subtly and intrigue, yeah.

I was really really blown away by Lady in the Water, in the same way I was with Requiem for a Dream or the Fountain, but I reckon that's 'new thread territory.'

We should have an article just for ragging on M. night shama lama... etc... etc... and some of his amazing works. I think I said amazing, sorry about that, I meant confusing and cryptic to the point of me leaving the theater.

LunaHound wrote:

Cheese Elemental wrote:I actually prefer He-Man, but I don't watch it because my friends think it's homoerotic.

True friends should support each other no matter what the sexual preference are!

AGREED!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:

Wrexasaur wrote:I cannot follow these new shows, I remember being just as baffled by the content as any of these other new shows. Granted it is a pretty cut and dry plot, so it is relatively easier to understand than Ben 10 for instance.

Frankly, if I cannot understand what the heck is going on, I might as well be watching Dragonball Z on fast forward for the really epic action packed feeling. These cartoons just talk waaaay too much, and never really get anywhere. Another baddie, not the classic villian, but a twisted and confused villian at every corner. What happened to good old fashioned taking over the world?

Anung I'm with Wrexy here on the shows. I've seen several. I just couldn't get into them. Its not good when your absent mindedly hoping someone puts an arrow through the primary character''s skull he's so annoying....

SAME

Im actually really looking forward to that! I saw an episode of the cartoon once, thought it was the best thing since sliced bread & proptly forgot what it was called!

Now I know I shall have to do some catching up!

It seems to not be on TV over here

looks interesting but anything with m night on there scares me.
he must need a wagon to carry his ego.

im surprised it was titled "M NIGHT SHAMALAMA oh, and that airbender guy"

Screw cartoons :]

DragQueenMarine wrote:Screw cartoons :]

Thank you so much for contributing.

New images. Zuko looks good. I'm not impressed by the other 3.












Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cheese Elemental wrote:

DragQueenMarine wrote:Screw cartoons :]

Thank you so much for contributing.

Indeed. And I'm pretty sure his Avatar somehow violates some rule.

i think those images are a lie, the movie is going to come out, and m. night will be playing every character

Just everybody watch.

Just like the crappy DBZ movie, AND the Star Trek movie, they're going to mess up a part of the story, they're going to mis-cast someone (I.E. White Goku? WTH?!?!?!) or the Plot will be slowed (So wait, Spock is in the past?!?!? WTH???!?!?)

The show was good, I hope they don't (and by that, they will) feth this up.

Edit: Just looked at the cast. They fethed up big time.

Golden Eyed Scout wrote:

Cheese Elemental wrote:I hope it stays true to the show, which is the most awesome animated show I've ever seen. Yes, I'm a turbonerd, and I consider it to be even better than my other favourites like Death Note

Just as planned. Also, i agree it is awesome.

These sentiments are correct.

@ Wrex, Ole Frazz: I'm having trouble imagining why you might have trouble following the plot of Avatar. If you happened to catch only the last episode or one of the (very few) fan service episodes, then I see what you mean. But the show has such a (refreshingly) basic plot and such fine characterization that it's difficult not to get sucked in. I myself did not start watching "from the beginning" (and I hate when people tell me "oh, you have to see it from the beginning to appreciate it"), albeit in its second rather than third and final season, but was immediately hooked.

Also, where the hell is Gwar?

Christ, they casted that dude from Twilight as Sokka. There goes my favorite character down the drain. I don't see a scar on the dude who plays Zuko though.
Also, does anybody have any idea who that guy who i'm guessing is earth bending is? Bumi or something?

He seems to have a scar. It's just not as pronounced.

Can Mark Hammil do a voice-over for Firelord Ozai?

Manchu wrote:@ Wrex, Ole Frazz: I'm having trouble imagining why you might have trouble following the plot of Avatar. If you happened to catch only the last episode or one of the (very few) fan service episodes, then I see what you mean. But the show has such a (refreshingly) basic plot and such fine characterization that it's difficult not to get sucked in. I myself did not start watching "from the beginning" (and I hate when people tell me "oh, you have to see it from the beginning to appreciate it"), albeit in its second rather than third and final season, but was immediately hooked.

I just don't feel the same way as you about this cartoon Manchu. When I see a good cartoon it shouldn't matter what episode it is, a cartoon "should" be easy enough for me to just jump in and enjoy. When I watched a few episodes of the Airbendaronie, all I thought was "HUH???". To elaborate on that the only thing I understood was their were like 5 random main characters that had super-powers I geuss, and they ran around breaking stuff. Now in essence I like this, but the fact that the story failed to pull me in for any of the episodes keeps me at arms distance from the rest of this stuff.

Way to confusing, way to complicated, and no where near enough action. Some of the backgrounds looked alright... Ya' know what, I think I know why I don't like these new shows. The CGI all over the place HAS to be the reason, I hate CGI everything, and the only CGI movie to ever catch my attention was Beowulf. What they seem to have done is draw basic concepts, then transfer them into the computer. Everything becomes really smooth and abruptly seamless (wait... a new scene now? what happened in the last one?), so I can't even decipher where the story develops, the writers just stick it into the animation so it seems to make sense.

This is coming from a guy who likes stop-motion animation, all of the old Looney toons and assorted classics, and film noir. So that could be the main reason this stuff doesn't push any buttons for me. I am not picking on this cartoon solely, it seems to be slightly better than some of the other stuff... Pokemon for instance, how do people watch that show?

"Note"
I absolutely love all of the "Cowboy Bebop" shows, and the movie too. It is obviously not a classic cartoon for kids, and doesn't try to be either. The content that the Last Airbender tries to present seems over the heads of most kids, dealing with some moral issues that even some adults wouldn't understand.

Here are some classics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyLMnrgD3bc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Suk9miYlp6k
THE FLEA CIRCUS IS HERE!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpSIAB82EHo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCMkyukmTLg&feature=related

Wrexasaur wrote:When I see a good cartoon it shouldn't matter what episode it is, a cartoon "should" be easy enough for me to just jump in and enjoy.

If Looney Toons is the paradigm, then what you mean is that a good cartoon has no plot. TBH, Airbender is a good show because it expects more of kids than Looney Toons. And that's why adults like it, too. Moreover, the kids don't find it confusing or too complicated or too mature but rather compelling. I don't think it compares at all with shows like Ben 10.

Wrexasaur wrote:Way to confusing, way to complicated, and no where near enough action. Some of the backgrounds looked alright...

The first question that comes to mind is: So what do you think about Samurai Jack? Also, using your example of Cowboy Bebop, I don't like convoluted plots, either. That's why I don't like any of the "Julia" episodes of Cowboy Bebop. What did you think of those?

Wrexasaur wrote:Ya' know what, I think I know why I don't like these new shows. The CGI all over the place HAS to be the reason, I hate CGI everything, and the only CGI movie to ever catch my attention was Beowulf. What they seem to have done is draw basic concepts, then transfer them into the computer. Everything becomes really smooth and abruptly seamless (wait... a new scene now? what happened in the last one?), so I can't even decipher where the story develops, the writers just stick it into the animation so it seems to make sense.

I don't quite understand what you mean but it sounds interesting. Could you please elaborate?

Wrexasaur wrote:I am not picking on this cartoon solely, it seems to be slightly better than some of the other stuff... Pokemon for instance, how do people watch that show?

I have no idea.

Manchu wrote:

Wrexasaur wrote:When I see a good cartoon it shouldn't matter what episode it is, a cartoon "should" be easy enough for me to just jump in and enjoy.

If Looney Toons is the paradigm, then what you mean is that a good cartoon has no plot. TBH, Airbender is a good show because it expects more of kids than Looney Toons. And that's why adults like it, too. Moreover, the kids don't find it confusing or too complicated or too mature but rather compelling. I don't think it compares at all with shows like Ben 10.

Looney tunes was just to take the edge off of what I am saying. In all honesty the last Airbender doesn't seem particularly bad in any way, I just remember all of the show I used to watch when I was a kid. Inspector gadget, TMNT, Doug (which was actually a gem in it's time), X-men, and so on.

Manchu wrote:

Wrexasaur wrote:Way to confusing, way to complicated, and no where near enough action. Some of the backgrounds looked alright...

The first question that comes to mind is: So what do you think about Samurai Jack? Also, using your example of Cowboy Bebop, I don't like convoluted plots, either. That's why I don't like any of the "Julia" episodes of Cowboy Bebop. What did you think of those?

Samurai Jack was a pioneer of modern cartoons, and I can't say that about the last Airbender, I just wish Jack still had a show . Everyone could enjoy samurai Jack for the art alone, which really served well as a hook for the show in general. Cowboy Bebop was entirely experimental, and there was a huge chance of failure. After all, it was a bit of a soap opera, but the action made up for that and I can guarantee some people liked the Julia episodes, I don't particularly like them, but they did provide a nice interlude of confusion for the story as a whole. In the same way the WH40k is so cool because you just don't know everyone's true background until it is too late, the same is for Cowboy Bebop.

Manchu wrote:

Wrexasaur wrote:Ya' know what, I think I know why I don't like these new shows. The CGI all over the place HAS to be the reason, I hate CGI everything, and the only CGI movie to ever catch my attention was Beowulf. What they seem to have done is draw basic concepts, then transfer them into the computer. Everything becomes really smooth and abruptly seamless (wait... a new scene now? what happened in the last one?), so I can't even decipher where the story develops, the writers just stick it into the animation so it seems to make sense.

I don't quite understand what you mean but it sounds interesting. Could you please elaborate?

The little I have seen of the lsat Airbender I found amusing but not particularly captivating. I can see how they would be more to the show than I took the time to understand, but that in itself was the main problem I had with the show itself. Nothing said "HEY!!! WATCH ME!", and the relatively cheap animation just can't make up for that. I actually like a few generic anime shows; Desert punk is pretty good if not a lot better at the end of the series, Fullmetal Alchemist actually has some really solid characters and very intricate action with a lot of character to it, Trigun was O.K. although some of the fights made me think I was watching a movie because of the fantastic editing. The list goes on, but the main issue is that CGI is standard stuff nowadays, and I didn't see anything that was particularly fancy about the last Airbender in this respect. This is not to say that it has to be amazing, just well thought out, and I just did not see anything that visually compelled me. There was one episode where they were in this valley and they had to fight some bug thing... I think, anyway some dude moved rock, and the rock that moved looked excactly like everything else on the screen... WHAT JUST HAPPENED??? Stuff like that, although I will take a look through some of the other episodes I haven't seen when I get a chance.

There was an anime version of Seven Samurai made a few years back called Samurai 7. It had a lot more CGI than the last Airbender and it was supposed to look like CGI, which made it look decent, like a sub-par Gundam: AS (which bored me terribly).

Watch this video (and mute it if you don't like the music), this is just an example of how I like to see action... SEE ACTION!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOweZzAmvlA

The animation is above standard (it was a mini-series though, so money was probably a bit more... available) if not a bit generic. I think it rivals Ninja scroll with some of the simple techniques they use to keep a consistent flow to the show, which I feel is what the Last Airbender mainly lacks.

"Note"
I also had some issues with Samurai 7, mainly with the editing and some of the more cheesy effects. I like a glowing white background, but the action streaks are just over-used sometimes. The character development was a joke compared to the Kurosawa flick, but for a cartoon it wasn't half bad. I knew the characters before-hand but they made some really weird decisions on how to update the classic ( ). For instance... WHY does it have to be in the future? Can't they just fight demonic bandits? Overall I think samurai 7 has a bit of an edge on the last Airbender, but quite frankly both of them are niche cartoons.

I think both shows have/had to make due on a budget that could strangle an elephant, which is usually the case with all of the elaborate production cost nowadays. I just expect more, that it all.

Manchu wrote:

Wrexasaur wrote:I am not picking on this cartoon solely, it seems to be slightly better than some of the other stuff... Pokemon for instance, how do people watch that show?

I have no idea.

Some people just like epileptic fits I guess.

Wrexasaur wrote:Looney tunes was just to take the edge off of what I am saying. In all honesty the last Airbender doesn't seem particularly bad in any way, I just remember all of the show I used to watch when I was a kid. Inspector gadget, TMNT, Doug (which was actually a gem in it's time), X-men, and so on.

Okay, I see what you mean. Cartoons from the late 1980s up through the mid 1990s were always stand-alone stories with little to no continuity between episodes. X-men, I think, actually was one of the first to change that. It was very hard to understand an episode without seeing the one before it or even several before it.

Wrexasaur wrote:Samurai Jack was a pioneer of modern cartoons, and I can't say that about the last Airbender, I just wish Jack still had a show . Everyone could enjoy samurai Jack for the art alone, which really served well as a hook for the show in general.

IMO, Samurai Jack was an experiment. It's hypothesis was: motion is the most important thing about cartoons. I can't say the art (meaning the visual design) was all that great. It certainly wasn't what made the show unique (just think back to Tartovsky's other show, Dexter's Lab, the "look" of which wasn't too original, either). Jack abandoned the idea of having anything but the very simplest of storyline plots in favor of action plots. Instead of character development, we were constantly treated to new concepts of fighting. Other animators certainly took lessons from this but the form has almost universally been rejected in favor of episodic, continuity-bound story telling. So to call Jack "the pioneer of modern cartoons"--again, IMO--isn't very accurate.

I think I understand your point about Airbender. It's not visually-appealing in the way that Cowboy Bebop or Jack was. I'm usually extremely critical about this (it's animation after all, right?) but Airbender's story-telling appeals to me a lot. And it's one of the only shows on TV these days (inlcuding shows meant for adults) where the characters actually grow and change over time.

So to call Jack "the pioneer of modern cartoons"--again, IMO--isn't very accurate.

A pioneer, not the pioneer.

Motion IS the core of any cartoon, no style works unless you know how to make it work. I actually was a big fan of the Samurai Jack art, I could understand what was going on, and they didn't have to compromise much when it came to action scenes; this meant the whole show had an extremely effective brand. All that would mean is art marketed to be popular, although Samurai Jack wasn't exactly that popular. It was just simple enough for a lot of people to enjoy it.

Agreed. I do have all the seasons on DVD and enjoy introducing them to friends who think anime means that Western animators have nothing to contribute.

I thought this thread was for avatar fans to bitch about M. Night Shanghai fething up the seris, not argue the pioneers of modern cartoons.

We need another thread for this. Quick Scout, to the Off-Topic Mobile!

Anung Un Rama wrote:We need another thread for this. Quick Scout, to the Off-Topic Mobile!

DOO DOO DO!

Wrexasaur wrote:
Samurai Jack was a pioneer of modern cartoons, and I can't say that about the last Airbender, I just wish Jack still had a show . Everyone could enjoy samurai Jack for the art alone, which really served well as a hook for the show in general.

Samurai Jack was impressive cool and captivated myself, and the kids.

Couldn't help myself.