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All poets are liars and all artists are thieves.

Very true.

So is my old saying: The point has been made... Anyone have anything new to add?

Tau- Trade Federation! Tau=Nemodians, colour scheme=Identical, Drones=Battle Droids, Tanks look near Fethin identical, etc.

Both GW and Blizzard stole the concept from star ship trooper.

Then GW stole visual designs from Aliens (lol hormagaunt and dominatrix = space jockey )

Then Blizzard came up with zergs ( idea not original , but visual design is )

Then GW stole the visual design from Zergs , most noticeably the hydralisks , aka raveners and all tyranids head previous edition.

There you go.

CT GAMER wrote:

generalgrog wrote:
Were they marines..check
Were they in space...check
Were they "space" "marines"...check
Were they GW's version of space marines...no

GG

Actually they were not in space when they fought the aliens. They fought them in the colony they went to investigate.

So by your logic they are "colony marines" Sort of similar to "colonial marines" me thinks.

Thanks for playing(and failing).

Hmmmm..... so they somehow magically teleported to the planet? Or did they travel in a....oh I don't know I'll call it a "space" ship. And that "space" ship traveled in........ oh I don't know, I'll call it "space"

Sorry CT gamer..... you just got pwned
GG


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mad Rabbit wrote:
I think the OP is being a little bit hard on GW.

I wasn't intentionally trying to be hard on GW. I just thought it would make good convo.

GG

I'd like to point out that the Slaan are in space in 40k. They were mentioned in the last rulebook so they aren't like anyone else in 40k, they are in 40k

And skaven in 40k=hrud if i remember correctly. Now they don't have an army but the basic idea is out there.

Oh, Dune and Starship Troopers (the books) were the greatest sources of inspiration for the general idea of the game I think. But that's just my personal opinion as I noticed a ton of similarities as I read them.

generalgrog wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mad Rabbit wrote:
I think the OP is being a little bit hard on GW.

I wasn't intentionally trying to be hard on GW. I just thought it would make good convo.

GG

Fair enough. The word "ripoff" just seemed a bit harsh to me. Either way it's an interesting point that you bring up.

Certainly contemporaries of early 40k were influential (Alien, Terminator) as well as traditional sci fi/fantasy.

The 40k setting is reasonably unique in my opinion. A lot of people mock GRIMDARK (which can be hilarious sometimes) but I like the medieval feel of the future. Just my $.02

Well, they are rip offs .

If OP were to sugar coat it , it would be for the sake of
the warhammer players / fans.

Question is , do we really need it sugar coated? or move along / deal with it?

Mars.Techpriest wrote:2: Tyranids- "Borrowed" from Starship Troopers, Starcraft
3: Space Marines- "Borrowed" from Starship Troopers, Starcraft

other way around. Nids have been around since the early 90's, Starship Troopers the movie was mid to late 90s, as was starcraft. The book starship troopers described a much different alien race.

Then GW stole the visual design from Zergs , most noticeably the hydralisks , aka raveners and all tyranids head previous edition.

Again, no, the Zerg were entirely borrowed from SST, "Alien" and "Aliens", and the Tyranids. The Hydralisk head was actually based on a cross between the head for the old Zoanthrobe and the standard Alien creature from the old Sigourney films. The 4th Ed Tyranids were more heavily based on 40K's Starcraft offspring, with the exception of the Genestealer, which hasn't changed since Blizzard used it as the basis for the Zergling.

generalgrog wrote:

6: Tau-"Borrowed" from Japanime, like robotech, etc.

I hate you.
No. Not Internet "I disagree with your opinions" hate.
Like, I hate you as a person.
Last section deleted by Modquisition as offensive

LunaHound wrote:
Well, they are rip offs .

If OP were to sugar coat it , it would be for the sake of
the warhammer players / fans.

Question is , do we really need it sugar coated? or move along / deal with it?

Not at all actually. A "rip off" implies a total lack of originality. What comes to mind is the generic "Dr. Thunder" that happens to taste exactly like Dr. Pepper.

There is a HUGE difference between ripping something off and borrowing from it/being influenced by it.

That is, unless punk bands are all just ripping off Black Flag and the Clash. Or Tolkien was ripping off traditional British literature.

To put it simply, when a rapper "samples" something for their own song (not counting a tribute song) that's a ripoff.
When someone does a cover (like the Sex Pistols doing "Substitute" by the Who) that is more borrowing, because they take the idea and make it their own through changing it.

Unless it's Lindsay Lohan covering David Bowie. In which case it's a travesty.

Eldar borrowed from Tolkien.

... Because Tolkien invented elves (at least, the tall, graceful haughty immortal elves) , who were copied for Warhammer Fantasy, which was then transposed into 40k



Blizzard/GW have an interesting relationship. Starcraft/40k , Fantasy/Warcraft, are very linked to each other in development (hence why Warcraft orcs look like GW orcs).

Tau take some obvious similarities from Protoss (at least in the body/face structure, the rest of Protoss is much more similar to Eldar).
The rest of tau was (stated by GW) a homage to Amine robots and samurai etc.

Cryonicleech wrote:Didn't Starcraft borrow Space Marines From GW? Who in-turn borrowed it from Starship Troopers?

If GW can take inspiration from a game that wasn't created until ten years later then I welcome our new overlords.

Welcome to Scifi its been stealing from itself for quite some time, so happy you could finally catch up.

And the Space Marines are "based" off of the guys from Dune and Starship Troopers, Heinlein's work of art, not that Gakky movie.

generalgrog wrote:

Hmmmm..... so they somehow magically teleported to the planet? Or did they travel in a....oh I don't know I'll call it a "space" ship. And that "space" ship traveled in........ oh I don't know, I'll call it "space"

Sorry CT gamer..... you just got pwned


GG

I applaud your desire to stand by a weak argument to the bitter end. To many kids these days have no dedication to anything...

CT GAMER wrote:

generalgrog wrote:

Hmmmm..... so they somehow magically teleported to the planet? Or did they travel in a....oh I don't know I'll call it a "space" ship. And that "space" ship traveled in........ oh I don't know, I'll call it "space"

Sorry CT gamer..... you just got pwned


GG

I applaud your desire to stand by a weak argument to the bitter end. To many kids these days have no dedication to anything...

Awesome! I'm 38, and you called me a kid. Thanks.

By the way, I hope you realize I was just having some fun with ya.

GG

I always got a Starship Troopers feel from the Nids, not so much with the Marines though, they had a more IG feel for me, but I've only seen the movie.

Withe the Ravenguars, is there a Poe reference in their lore or something? I don't know much about them.

Tyras wrote:I always got a Starship Troopers feel from the Nids, not so much with the Marines though, they had a more IG feel for me, but I've only seen the movie.

Withe the Ravenguars, is there a Poe reference in their lore or something? I don't know much about them.

Firstly, if you get a chance to read SST then by all means take it. In this political rant/novel the Mobile Infantry are power-armor wearing badasses who jump around on their jump jets like House of Pain could only dream of.

Also, Raven Guard are indeed a Poe reference. One of the quotes in the fluff ends with "darkness is there and nothing more". (It's a "nod" to "The Raven" for all you uncultured heathens out there)

"Rip-offs" are often preferable to being original just for the sake of being original, I think.

3: Space Marines- "Borrowed" from Aliens

I'd have issues here, the "Colonial Marines" in Aliens have very little to do with the Space Marines, and the idea of "Space Marines" in general, predates even aliens, in some ways the Warhammer 40k Space Marines take their lead far more from the Lensmen/Starship Troopers

The concept of the "Warp" and traveling in the warp- "Borrowed" from Dune.

The -navigators- are stolen out of dune, the idea of the warp itself is more from Moorcock's Eternal Champion books, the Dune books themselves involve almost no hyperspace travel in the books themselves, and hyperspace travel presents no danger in and of itself, the navigators in Dune, do just that they -navigate-, substituting precognitive ability for banned computer navigation, in the later books (Heretics/Chapterhouse) navigational machines have been reintroduced.

Actually space marines as originally written (ie rogue trader) were much more like the Sardaukar in Dune.

Except the power armor, and heavy weapons, and genetic and physical enhancements... the only real refrence that we have to physical modifaction of the Sardarkar, is when they catch a few late in the book in Dune, and Paul tells the fremen to go to extreme-extremes searching them for concealed weapons... Remeber that the entire plot of Dune revolved around House Atredies training troops to -exceed- the Sardakar in training, and hoping to expand their forces when they took over the only planet in the galaxy that was -worse- than the Sardaukar's homeworld...

(Side note here, KJA Novels about Dune -do not exist- as far as I'm concerned)

So besides my first 10, there haven't been many more contributions. I mean I purposely avoided the tolkien references because the whole elves thing seemed a bit obvious and also just about everyone and the brother have used the elf theme.

The comparisons between fantasy and 40k were a bit off topic in my opinion but oh well.

GG

Let's see...you all only go as far back as what, the last century to say what things were taken from? Where do you think most of Tolkien's ideas came from...or any other author/writer? If you've guessed mythology, you're right. Sure, over the years and through different tellings the stories change, but do you honestly think any of the modern authors have contributed a great deal of original ideas? When I get around to it I'll go through some books and throw down some examples. Until then...someone else go do it for me to prove my point.

Edit:
So yes, while you can say GW borrowed from more modern things, so say that the modern things are original is really silly.

generalgrog wrote:
Awesome! I'm 38, and you called me a kid. Thanks.

By the way, I hope you realize I was just having some fun with ya.

GG

I'm same age, it was more a figure of speech. And I likewise was just talking a little smack...

generalgrog wrote:So besides my first 10, there haven't been many more contributions.

And none of the first ten really stand up to much scrutiny anyways. Topics like this are silly precisely because 1: you can always find an analogue somewhere, just given the sheer amount of stuff out there. Look at people who go, 'oh! oh! Dune has Navigators! 40K has Navigators! I know where they got that idea from hyuk hyuk.' It's certainly possible to come up with a more empty-headed correlation, but I'd rather not try. This very thread has posters equating space marines and colonial marines, whose only real shared trait is that their name contains 'marines' and they shoot stuff. 2: a lot of the terms, especially in the OP list are so vague as to be meaningless. Kroot are like the Predator because... they both kill stuff, I guess. Or, Raven Guard, borrowed from Poe. Ah yes, because we are all familiar with Poe's gripping tales of gentically enhanced super-warriors in the grim darkness of the far future- oh wait, no. They just happen to reference some of the most famous uses of ravens in western literature.

Really, these threads are mostly the spawn of sheer ignorance.

Wow bookwrack has some serious issues. I'm not sure where the hate is coming from.

Try learning some social graces and how to deal with people without insulting them before entering a conversation. Oh wait I forgot this is the internet where anyone can sit behind a computer screen and insult people without fear of reprisal.

GG

Where is there any hate? If you don't want to be called out for saying stupid things, then you should probably not say stupid things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bookwrack wrote:Where is there any hate? If you don't want to be called out for saying stupid things, then you should probably not say stupid things.

Anyways, this is a thread that started off as being wrong on the internet, and has only gotten wronger, and wronger as it has progressed... on the internet! Can I be blamed for having leapt to my feet in a furious rage, only to immediately sit down, breathing heavily, THREE TIMES!

The problem of course is that your opinion that my thread is stupid is just that. AN OPINION. And therfore not fact. A lot of people contributed to the thread before you got on your "this is stupid" High horse, and went way over board with the insults even though I never insulted you.

Anyways I can tell an ignoramous when I see one. Welcome to the ignore list.. WOW two people added in 1 day.

GG

Lanceradvanced wrote:

(Side note here, KJA Novels about Dune -do not exist- as far as I'm concerned)

Truer words have never been spoken. I struggled through a few of them when they first came out. Went back to reread them a year or two ago and couldn't bring myself to do it.

From what I understand from back in the day, Space Marines were a port of the Colonial Marines from Aliens that were exaggerated and made more "awesome" and the Genestealers were taken directly from the Aliens themselves (Aliens actually steal parts of their host organism's genes while gestating). Later Tyranids were probably either just exagerated forms of Genestealers and mostly original, or partially inspired by Lizardmen (I have heard both from people around in the day). Later evolotion was simply parellel to what both 40k needed and what Fantasy needed, in the same way Wood Elves and Tau are similiar.

Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks, Squats, and Necrons are all directly inspired by Fantasy armies, High Elves, Dark Elves, Orks, and Dwarves respectively. Necrons are a mix of army Robots, Chaos Cyborgs, and Undead. I don't remember if Vampire Counts were around when the Necrons were originally.

In fact, Eldar used to be Space Elves, Dark Eldar, Space Dark Elves/Elf Pirates, Orks were Space Orks, Squats were Space Dwarves, and Necrons were an assortment of things. The Imperial Guard has little to no relation to Fantasy, and is more inspired by modern armies (used to be Imperial Army). Tau were invented for multiple reasons, I think just to try and get the Anime fan market for 40k. Chaos is obviously just a corrupted version of Imperials, much in the same way Chaos corrupts humans in Fantasy, so is half original, half ported from Fantasy.

As for Demons, I am a bit confused about. At first many people said it was a GW gamble to try and introduce more Fantasy aspects into 40k and have an army whose models could majority be used for both to help justify to people to buy a new army that didn't look very fun. However, that doesn't make sense because that would save players money, something GW seems to avoid like a Vegetarian avoids my refrigerator (that is until I hunt them down and butcher their tasty herbivore meat).

Indeed a lot of GW's line was inspired by Fantasy as to what they should include, but the influences on unit appearance were drawn from history and the big sellers of the 80's - the novels, movies, and TV shows that defined Sci-fi.

Daemons were indeed intended as an "either-or" army, though it wasn't much of a gamble. GW figured that there would be a decent market among existing Chaos players to add yet more scariness to their armies, and new players would just be drawn in by the badassness of Daemons. It didn't work as well as they hoped, but I would say it was nonetheless successful.

something GW seems to avoid like a Vegetarian avoids my refrigerator (that is until I hunt them down and butcher their tasty herbivore meat).

O.o I hate Vegans/Vegetarians too, but uh... little extreme?