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Bookwrack wrote:

High Commissar Biffsmack wrote:Do you think that a rhino could magically fly 30 meters into the air and slam into a flying vehicle? No.

YES!
If someone can give me a convincing explanation for how a torpedo boat could torpedo an airborne helicopter, I will accept a similarly convincing explanation for a rhino ramming an airborne Valkyrie.

If KITT could make a turboboost jump back in the 80's, i'm sure that rhino could do the same thing 38000 years from that.

As an eldar player with boat loads of supposedly high-tech skimmers that are supposedly way beyond the Imperium technology... I would say that no rhino can ram an eldar skimmer either...

However the rules state that any tank can ram a skimmer if the skimmer fails its save.

Read the stats on a valkrie... does it classify at as a skimmer? If so, it can be rammed.

DAaddict wrote:As an eldar player with boat loads of supposedly high-tech skimmers that are supposedly way beyond the Imperium technology... I would say that no rhino can ram an eldar skimmer either...

However the rules state that any tank can ram a skimmer if the skimmer fails its save.

Read the stats on a valkrie... does it classify at as a skimmer? If so, it can be rammed.

Of course it can be rammed... if your vehicle can actually come into contact with its hull: because that is a requirement to ram a vehicle as well. So, I think the only tank that could actually ram a valkyrie might be a monolith. I think it would be hilarious to see that though

Also, don't forget, the 3+ dodge that skimmers get doesn't work against other skimmers.

For that matter why not put all your flying/jump units on really tall flying bases?

Oh right, that's against the rules now, because of these sort of loopholes.

It says in the first few pages of the book that if you want to put your models on 'different' bases that may affect the way they interact with the rules, you must discuss that with your opponent.



And yes, I would love to see Monolith ramming a Valkyrie.

Why would a Monolith ever Ram anyway? A S5-7 Hit is not that effective considering it has an Always-can-Fire-indestructible-S9-2D6-Pick-Highest-Killamatron

Gwar! wrote:Why would a Monolith ever Ram anyway? A S5-7 Hit is not that effective considering it has an Always-can-Fire-indestructible-S9-2D6-Pick-Highest-Killamatron

Yeah, but it would look cool just taping the side of whatever it hits with a slight thud and that's it; not going fast enough to bounce off. Picture ramming stuff with a giant Segway, that's what ramming with a Monolith will look like basically.

Gwar! wrote:Why would a Monolith ever Ram anyway? A S5-7 Hit is not that effective considering it has an Always-can-Fire-indestructible-S9-2D6-Pick-Highest-Killamatron

That's why I said "hilarious" and not "awesome"

psf3077 wrote:That would be some very Velveeta modeling for the advantage (not to mention unstable), because unless I'm mistaken that standard base does not put the Valkyrie more then 2-3" off table. even the lowly Rhino could hit it. that having been said you would still get a 4+ "save" [for lack of a better term] to stop it, unless the Rammer were a skimmer as well.

Here is a man that has not seen the Valk base. Google image it

My local gaming store uses a house rule that when a Valkyrie is rammed then both players are required to sprinkle magical pixie dust into the air and recite the pledge of allegience. Followed by a maypole dance in the parking lot.

These forums arent for your local game store. Hence, who cares about the house rules at your local game store?

Ivan wrote:My local gaming store uses a house rule that when a Valkyrie is rammed then both players are required to sprinkle magical pixie dust into the air and recite the pledge of allegience. Followed by a maypole dance in the parking lot.

These forums arent for your local game store. Hence, who cares about the house rules at your local game store?

Well hell, bunky, I don't care about your opinion, Hence, why are you posting?) (sarcasm)

Your expectations of how anyone should post on those forums are not necessarily the opinions held by others. People will post stuff you don't want to read. Ignore it. In a similar way, you are free to post your opinions, and they will be ignored by some people.

These forums are about a game called 40k, and how people play it. Many people express personal opinions, how they play the game, rules interpretations, intent behind the rules, meaning of the word "is", and trying to string together logical ways to play a game based on the obscure writings of GW. While you may not care about house rules, or how people in other stores play the game, it turns out the universe doesn't revolve around you.

Every gaming group is going to have to make decisions on how they play the game. Sometimes examples of how other people play can help with that.

On the boarders of insanity:

Valk's block Jump pack troops movement. Why you say?

Because they would have to start 1" away, move 6" to get to the top of the Valk, 3" over the base/hull, 6" back down, and end their move 1" away. That's 17", and not possible.

And don't think this argument hasn't been had . . .

On the other hand, I haven't met anyone yet who can show me a clear set of rules of when to enforce 'parabolic' movement of Jump Infantry.

You say that you're counting their vertical movement as part of their move.
Do you, when jumping over infantry, count that you are moving 1.5 inches up, 9 inches across, 1.5 inches down?
If not (and as I said I haven't seen anyone play like that) how is ignoring those 1.5" of vertical movement any different to ignoring the 6" of vertical movement taken by moving over the Valkyrie?

n0t_u wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Why would a Monolith ever Ram anyway? A S5-7 Hit is not that effective considering it has an Always-can-Fire-indestructible-S9-2D6-Pick-Highest-Killamatron

Yeah, but it would look cool just taping the side of whatever it hits with a slight thud and that's it; not going fast enough to bounce off. Picture ramming stuff with a giant Segway, that's what ramming with a Monolith will look like basically.

Reminds me of a picture I once saw with a shield drone and a zoanthrope, it was a cartoon.

The two jumped at eachother and an Guardsman in the foreground shouted "Cripple Fight!"

Just because!

Are you guys completely slowed, why is this even a question, i can tell you why because a bunch of rules Nazis like to cause problems and take the fun out of the game.

It is not the responsibility of GW to have to keep putting out errata’s because you guys like to be difficult.

The Valarie can be rammed, and may be disembarked from, that's the bottom line.

Ludwig wrote:The Valarie can be rammed, and may be disembarked from, that's the bottom line.

Errr, no. The rules are the utter opposite...

Did I get bad Acid again? I'm gonna kill Jimmy this time...

Errr, no. The rules are the utter opposite...

Did I get bad Acid again? I'm gonna kill Jimmy this time...

I'm not going to argue the rules with you sir, I’ve sat hear and watched you post after post for days now. As far as I’m concerned you’re a disgrace to the game, you care nothing for having fun or about your opponents. So you’re just wasting your breath.

At some in time in the future when you grow up let me know, then we can have a serious discussion.

Ludwig wrote:

Errr, no. The rules are the utter opposite...

Did I get bad Acid again? I'm gonna kill Jimmy this time...

I'm not going to argue the rules with you sir, I’ve sat hear and watched you post after post for days now. As far as I’m concerned you’re a disgrace to the game, you care nothing for having fun or about your opponents. So you’re just wasting your breath.

At some in time in the future when you grow up let me know, then we can have a serious discussion.

Oh noes, I like playing by the rules. I am a terrible person.

Gwar! wrote:Oh noes, I like playing by the rules. I am a terrible person.

You're not a terrible person. I like playing by the rules too. The guys at the tournament think I am a great person and opponent. I get top sportsmanship awards all the time. Now the families of the babies I've eaten think I'm a terrible person. I would have to agree with them from that point of view.

Oh noes, I like playing by the rules. I am a terrible person.

see but that's the thing you don't play the rules you play how you think the rules should be , but you definitely don't play the rules.

What you should really to is just crawl back into you troll cave and hibernate for awhile.

I actually thik it would improve the gaming community.

Ludwig wrote:

Oh noes, I like playing by the rules. I am a terrible person.

see but that's the thing you don't play the rules you play how you think the rules should be , but you definitely don't play the rules.

Lol, I am sorry, but how is playing by what the rules say, and not what I want the rules to say, mean I don't play by the rules?

Personal attacks are not allowed on Dakka. Click the Rule #1 link in my sig for the rules, and be polite from here on out.

Gwar, your comments are a bit inflammatory too. Rule #1 applies to everyone.

"Oh noes, I like playing by the rules. I am a terrible person."

"Lol, I am sorry, but how is playing by what the rules say, and not what I want the rules to say, mean I don't play by the rules?"

None of that comes Anywhere close to "Inflammatory". Curt, perhaps, but That is as Inflammatory as Steroids (i.e. Not)

You’re guessing, the rule is foggy at best, and you’re guessing that you’re right. You show me anywhere in the rulebook that models on a flight stand can't be rammed or you can't disembark from them.

You can't, you can try to use other rules to justify your position, but there were no flight stands when the warhammer 40k rulebook was written. So to sit here and make other players lives more difficult is just slowed.

Since a valkyrie is a skimmer and not a flyer... you can ram it.

Considering the valkyrie has to be within 2" of the ground regardless of its ridiculous base inorder to disembark or embark models and most vehicles are more than 1" in height (1" plus stopping 1" away for ram)= You can ram a valkyrie.

You can get into RAI arguements about the valkyrie coming lower to drop/pickup troops but then you can also argue the battle doesnt actually happen in turn based and everything is happening at once so technically your ramming vehicle isnt sipping tea and passing grey poupon to a bike squad while it waits for a valkyrie to drop off its infantry.

Ludwig wrote:You’re guessing, the rule is foggy at best, and you’re guessing that you’re right. You show me anywhere in the rulebook that models on a flight stand can't be rammed or you can't disembark from them.

You can't, you can try to use other rules to justify your position, but there were no flight stands when the warhammer 40k rulebook was written. So to sit here and make other players lives more difficult is just slowed.

The rules have been quoted elsewhere. They come down to 2 items, which are very straightforward (for GW rules):
1) models disembark from transports w/in 2" of an access point (or the hull, in case of open-topped vehicles); and
2) in order to ram a vehicle, you must be able to make hull contact with the vehicle.

Your problem with Gwar is that you're reading his "the rules don't allow this" to equate with "I won't allow this." Gwar's purpose here is merely to provide the baseline recognition of a problem, i.e., the rules as currently written do not cover this situation (or, indeed, anything with a 5" tall flight stand). Don't read anything further into his posts; CERTAINLY don't launch into personal attacks or judgements of another poster's character.

Given the facts (a skimmer transport which is 5" off the table) and the rules, the reasonable poster has 3 options:
1) Find something in the rules that would allow the Valk/Vendetta to disembark models or be rammed;
2) accept that the rules do not cover the situation, and enter into discussion as to a reasonable adaptation; or
3) shrug, and walk away, secure in the knowledge that anyone you want to play a game with will probably agree that a transport vehicle is probably intended to be able to embark/disembark troops, and anyone who wouldn't agree to that at game time is no real loss to avoid.

Please note that "4) troll Gwar" doesn't appear on this list.

LOL

Cool, look i don't mean to get personal here, but it just seems very silly to me.

See because the skimmer and tranport rules don't address flight stands, I just can see how a call can be made like that.

What i will do thou for now is cut the plastic on my flight stands so th the valkerie is exactly 2 inches off the ground. lol

Ludwig wrote:What i will do thou for now is cut the plastic on my flight stands so th the valkerie is exactly 2 inches off the ground. lol

Then it is not on the base it came with, and as such I have the right permitted by the rules to refuse it.

LOL

Wow, still on the same size base and there is nothing in the book about modifying the the base as long as it's the same size, good try thou.

i'ts no diffrent then taking my hive tyrant and standing him on a rock so he gets better LOS