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Charts are cool.

Frank Fugger wrote:Why do we even need a chart when it's made clear in the BBB what negates FnP and what doesn't?

Because certain peoples think AP 3 weaponry negates FNP.

Orkeosaurus wrote:Charts are cool.

That one is. I saw a chart the other day entitled "Employee Toilet Break Frequency & Productivity Overlay". That wasn't cool :(

Also, why would people think FnP is negated by an attack that isn't on the list of attacks that negate FnP? I wish the world ran on that gak-wit logic; if it did, flashing my arse at pensioners should not land me with a fine, even though flashing my arse at pensioners is not on the list of legal things you can do at Butlin's.

Kyrolon wrote:Incorrect. Plasma is AP2, so per the FNP rules he gets no FNP roll. However, if you want an example of him not getting an armor save, but getting FNP, let's hit him with a krak missile. It is AP 3 so Mr. Plaguemarine get's no armor save. The missile, however doesn't ignore ALL armor saves, so he still gets his FNP roll to ignore the wound.

So would I be correct to say that Chaplain Cassius is the only current character in the Space Marine Codex that could get feel no pain if failing his invulnerable when getting shot with a Krak Missile?

I would think so. Only a model with a base T of 5 or higher could get it.

BuZzZzJaY wrote:

Kyrolon wrote:Incorrect. Plasma is AP2, so per the FNP rules he gets no FNP roll. However, if you want an example of him not getting an armor save, but getting FNP, let's hit him with a krak missile. It is AP 3 so Mr. Plaguemarine get's no armor save. The missile, however doesn't ignore ALL armor saves, so he still gets his FNP roll to ignore the wound.

So would I be correct to say that Chaplain Cassius is the only current character in the Space Marine Codex that could get feel no pain if failing his invulnerable when getting shot with a Krak Missile?

Only if he was on his own or with 1 other person, due to the Majority Toughness rules.
IGNORE ME!!!!!! :3

I thought majority toughness only applied when rolling to wound?

Correct. Majority toughness wouldn't influence FNP. FNP is taken against the model's unsaved wound.

Orkeosaurus wrote:I thought majority toughness only applied when rolling to wound?

Yes you are right, I misread the question lol. Blame Lack of sleep. I'm going to bed now :3

Frank Fugger wrote:Why do we even need a chart when it's made clear in the BBB what negates FnP and what doesn't?

If it can be made easier, then do it imo. Which is why I like the chart.

FNP vs AP - = Yes
FNP vs AP 6 = Yes
FNP vs AP 5 = Yes
FNP vs AP 4 = Yes
FNP vs AP 3 = Yes
FNP vs AP 2 = No
FNP vs AP 1 = No
FNP vs Tx2 = No
FNP vs S D = No
FNP vs Power weapons = No
FNP vs No retreat = Yes
FNP vs Gets Hot = Yes
FNP vs Perils of the warp = No
FNP vs Demon Weapon rolls of 1 = No
FNP vs Breath of Chaos = No
FNP vs Dangerous Terrain = No

Gwar! wrote:As examples go, that is a terrible and incorrect one.

It is quite interesting how when you post things that are wrong, you go through twisted convolutions to explain them away "mistaken" "misinformed" "from memory" etc etc.

But when others make what are, clearly, small errors, you jump on them with both feet. "Terrible and incorrect"? Really? The example actually did a good job illustrating the point being discussed. It just did not take into account all other aspects of the rule. That makes it "Terrible and incorrect".....?? Hardly. Try getting down off of your high horse sometime....

Well it was incorrect, so I don't know why you bothered posting that lovely personal attack.

I believeCoredump is saying there is a better way to disagree and or correct someone without calling their contribution "terrible." Political correctness aside it is just more polite.

"Political correctness" is a fancy way of saying "politeness".

What about artificer armor and an ap2 weapon? FNP works or doesn't?

Doesn't work, because AP2 weapons are on the list of things that negate FnP in the BRB.

Brother Ramses wrote:What about artificer armor and an ap2 weapon? FNP works or doesn't?

AP 2 doesn't allow armour saves to EVER be taken against them, so it negates FnP.

Brother Ramses wrote:What about artificer armor and an ap2 weapon? FNP works or doesn't?

I recommend finding a copy of the rulebook and reading it. Wounds caused by AP2 weapons are listed as denying Feel No Pain roles.

Feel No Pain is not affected by a model's saving throw, only by the nature of the weapon causing the wound. If the weapon:

1. Causes Instant Death, either by fiat or by having a Strength value equal or greater than twice the model's Toughness
2. Ignores armour saving throws in close combat
3. Has AP1 or AP2

Nurglitch wrote:

Brother Ramses wrote:What about artificer armor and an ap2 weapon? FNP works or doesn't?

I recommend finding a copy of the rulebook and reading it. Wounds caused by AP2 weapons are listed as denying Feel No Pain roles.

Feel No Pain is not affected by a model's saving throw, only by the nature of the weapon causing the wound. If the weapon:

1. Causes Instant Death, either by fiat or by having a Strength value equal or greater than twice the model's Toughness
2. Ignores armour saving throws in close combat
3. Has AP1 or AP2

4. Has a "Ignores Armour Saves" clause that applies in any phase such as Dangerous Terrain Tests (Movement) or Breath of Chaos (Shooting).

Nurglitch wrote:

Brother Ramses wrote:What about artificer armor and an ap2 weapon? FNP works or doesn't?

I recommend finding a copy of the rulebook and reading it. Wounds caused by AP2 weapons are listed as denying Feel No Pain roles.

Feel No Pain is not affected by a model's saving throw, only by the nature of the weapon causing the wound. If the weapon:

1. Causes Instant Death, either by fiat or by having a Strength value equal or greater than twice the model's Toughness
2. Ignores armour saving throws in close combat
3. Has AP1 or AP2

Yea, I am at my office right now without rulebooks around. Just the thought of +2 artificer save got in my head against ap2 weapons hence why I asked.

Gandair wrote:

Frank Fugger wrote:Why do we even need a chart when it's made clear in the BBB what negates FnP and what doesn't?

If it can be made easier, then do it imo. Which is why I like the chart.

FNP vs AP - = Yes
FNP vs AP 6 = Yes
FNP vs AP 5 = Yes
FNP vs AP 4 = Yes
FNP vs AP 3 = Yes
FNP vs AP 2 = No
FNP vs AP 1 = No
FNP vs Tx2 = No
FNP vs S D = No
FNP vs Power weapons = No
FNP vs No retreat = Yes
FNP vs Gets Hot = Yes
FNP vs Perils of the warp = No
FNP vs Demon Weapon rolls of 1 = No
FNP vs Breath of Chaos = No
FNP vs Dangerous Terrain = No

This is a great chart. I am putting this on an index card for reference in-game. Thanks!

Qustion though, what is the "S D in

FNP vs S D = No

Strength D (Destroyer) weapons in Apocalypse.

They always inflict Instant Death.

Orkeosaurus wrote:Strength D (Destroyer) weapons in Apocalypse.

They always inflict Instant Death.

Just out of curiosity, are there any that aren't AP 2 (or a CCW that ignores saves)?

Gwar!, you can't cook an omlet without breaking some eggs, or in this case egos. You are usually right so 1 mistake here and there only makes you human (i.e. fallible and not perfect). All this baloney about you (or rather against you) lately is really pathetic.

Back on topic, I second the motion to make a clear FNP chart with what negates the USR and what doesnt part of the rulebook. It would make it somewhat simpler.

RustyKnight wrote:Just out of curiosity, are there any that aren't AP 2 (or a CCW that ignores saves)?

I can't think of anything.

Better include these in the "handy chart" then:

-Breath of Chaos wounds
-Eldrad's Staff
-Yriel's Spear
-Agonizers

Gwar!, you can't cook an omlet without breaking some eggs, or in this case egos. You are usually right so 1 mistake here and there only makes you human (i.e. fallible and not perfect). All this baloney about you (or rather against you) lately is really pathetic.

I believe it is his obstinacy that he is in fact NOT fallible that draws the attacks, not the mistakes he actually makes.

Nurgleboy77 wrote:I believe it is his obstinacy that he is in fact NOT fallible that draws the attacks, not the mistakes he actually makes.

I have never claimed to be infallible. I am failable, like any human and when I make a real mistake, I admit it. What my "rep" is about is when I follow the rules to the letter, and they do not, resulting in me being right, but they constantly asserting I am not (when I am)

*sigh* Where has Mauleed gone?

Nurgleboy77 wrote:Better include these in the "handy chart" then:

-
-Eldrad's Staff
-Yriel's Spear
-Agonizers

They fall under "Power Weapons" on the chart right? Aren't these described in their codecies as "functioning as a power weapon" or some similar wording? It would be tiresome to list all the specific special weapons that have a "counts as power weapon" type phrase in their description.

No, they "allow no armor save", hence the wording of FnP saying "wounds that allow no armor save to be taken". There are surprisingly a LOT of things that say this instead of "power weapon" like we think.