Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Wrexasaur wrote:

Neferteila wrote:Sure, there is alot of bad flarf going on in the world, all over the planet. As has always been. But just because there is a war going on somewhere, doesn't mean someone (or everyone) shouldn't be upset when a farked up POS throws a defenseless baby animal out of a moving vehicle to get crushed on the road by other hapless drivers.

Saying someone shouldn't be upset about that is akin to saying "oh, wow. Hey, sorry your Dad died,... but that family down the streets entire house blew up. Your situation isn't so bad compared to that. Buck up."

Grrr...
People like the kitten chucker should be tossed out of a vehicle in front of a moving train.

I partially agree with this, but a kitten is simply not someones Father, and comparing the two seems a bit drastic to me. The fact remains that police should be dealing with this problem, not vigilante kitten saviors. If you are really that angry about it, I recommend volunteering at the SPCA or an equivalent non-profit. I have had pets for a very long time, and I can't say you won't encounter this nonsense if you volunteer at the SPCA.

You can also go clean beaches, punch a wobbly clown, volunteer to tutor kids at an after-school program, perhaps even adopt a sad kitten or puppy.

But basically... Its not worth being upset that this was done. I think I am getting it. Maybe I should go throw a puppy into traffic and see how much more apathy from humanity I can scrounge up.
I haven't gone out and beaten the guy, tracked him down to run a truck over his head as he did to the kitten... All I have done is say "That is beyond fethed up." post a little vent on a message board about it. Definetly seems like I am overboard upset I guess.
oh, and btw. I already have adopted a sad kitten from the SPCA. A few times.

Well, honestly I don't know what really happened. Mabye the kitten of that particular driver climbed out the window? Mabye we've looked at this the wrong way...

Wait...was the kitten in a bag? Well then the person is either stupid (and let it fall out) or cruel.

Listen to Emperors Faithful, he makes a better sentence.

All I am saying is that there are a trillion other things that I can be angry about, and this would be a passable offense (jail time, etc...) in a court of law. On average you can expect most judges to send a person for psychiatric evaluation followed by a large amount of community service (EXCLUDING animal shelters).

Do not expect to be able to run around hurting people without reprimand. No judge takes kindly to vigilante justice.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Well, honestly I don't know what really happened. Mabye the kitten of that particular driver climbed out the window? Mabye we've looked at this the wrong way...

Wait...was the kitten in a bag? Well then the person is either stupid (and let it fall out) or cruel.

No, the kitten was not in a bag I thought it might have been a bag at first. I saw the man's arm exteded from his window with something white in his hand. Between the distance, the speed, and paying attention to other vehicles in traffic I did not know what the object was. I just saw how the car behind him reacted so extremely, then when I arrived at the area traffic had slowed down a bit from people looking at the truck that got ran into the ditch and at the object that had been tossed did I see that it was a kitten convulsing in the road after being hit.
Make no mistake, it was purposeful.

Tyras, do not lose faith in humanity.

When I was about 15 an unknown someone muredered my pet cat. To this day, if I found out who, I'd gut the melon-fether.

Manchu wrote:Tyras, do not lose faith in humanity.

In 1996 I was deployed to Camp McGovern in Northern Bosnia where I was assisting the International Warcrimes Tribunal in the Brcko (pronounced Birchko) area. The mass graves they opened, and I help document for the task force I was assigned to was full of women, children and the elderly. No military aged men were there. Through investigation it was found that the military aged men of the Bosnian Muslims in the area, were killed and then ran through a meat processing plant in an attempt to hide Serbian Warcrimes.

I have read reports and conducted de-briefings from missions in Iraq, Afghanistan, Columbia and East Timor (all areas of operations that I supported during my time in the US Army Intelligence and Security Command INSCOM) that made me sick to my stomach. I can not detail them due to thier classified nature, but needless to say the vileness of humans and their utter disregard for other humans in those reports and debriefings was astonishing.

Other than what I either saw first hand or learned second hand there's plenty open source material for anybody with the stomach to look it up that will shake anyone's faith in humanity. Everything from the guy who was shot in an armed robbery for the change he had in his pocket to the mother who kills her children, to the man who kidnaps rapes and kills a young child. That's just in what are supposed to be civilized western nations. What about the mother who has to watch the arms chopped from her childrens bodies before their still living torsos are thrown onto a fire while the assailents devour the meat on the arms in Africa? How about the woman who is stoned to death for being seen with a male she's not related to? How about the capture, torture and eventual behaeding of the guy who went to Iraq as a contractor to help rebuild that devestated nation?

All of that and much more is out there. People reading or watching reports of these things from the comfort and relative safety of a western culture don't understand how little other cultures value life. Sure, you can get robbed and killed for a near meaningless amount of goods here, but it's rare. It's common place in some areas of the world.

There is plenty to lose faith in humanity for. The kitten was a small example, and it was more for the lack of value for life, human or otherwise, than the cuddly nature of the victim that causes me to lose that much more faith.

Have faith in yourself, and what you believe in.

Terrible things are always imminent, such as a small asteroid totally obliterating our planet. There are also good things happening, creative and inspiring things.

I say as long as the boat is afloat I am still stinking and drinking.

The fact that almost all Americans get upset about a kitten thrown out of a car and talk about putting the thrower in jail who in their opinion deserves some terrible punishment shows just how sheltered and clueless they are. Don't get me wrong I can get along with kittens but get serious. We are in the longest war in American history and American guys and girls who are not old enough to drink in most states are dying in some pretty gruesome ways far from home NOT defending America. The vast majority of the folks on the forums do not have any family members over there dying so no big deal to them.

If folks here express a desire to go beat someone up or put them in prison over a kittens death then please extend and expand the pain and imprisonment to your nearest US Senator, Congressman or President for waffling for all these years while Americans die in the Middle East in a war that can not be won with the amount of effort being currently expended.

I am reminded of football fans and commenter s using words like, kill, slaughter, a real war on the field today, brutal, and other such drivel to describe 2 groups of heavily protected grown men throwing a pigskin around while checked shirt guys throw little flags in the air when ever one of the players gets a little out of line. If those clowns were such killers then lets just make their draft a REAL draft and send the entire American Football league to a real war for 4 weeks. I sadly suspect most Americans will be more interested in the war then and demanding that the President and the Congress either pull out or start going to the kind of total war we had in WWII that allowed us to win a World War in less time then we have been dying in the current conflict.

What a shame. I would not throw a kitten out of a speeding car on a highway. I will not say the same about a Senator or Congressman who has sat on his ass collecting money for his next election instead or really supporting the Troops.

So true.

Big deal. We live in the best times and circumstances yet witnessed on this planet. Cynics who would argue the point should look more closely at history. It's easy to have faith in humanity if you bother to give weight to all the kindness that constantly happens around you rather than simply dwelling on the bad, no matter how much of it there is.

The fact is the OP appropriately (if you can put it that way) brought this issue up in a thread. So talking about it as an initial reaction shows an amount of judgment that most do not have, perhaps not acting on their feelings and thoughts, but allowing them to dwell.

There are also a lot of other things to factor into the evolution of human situation. It is not as simple as... "Well now less people die around me, so it must be better on average." Which it actually is, but on top of this the suffering found in concentrated parts of the world are basically apocalyptic to people from even one generation ago. The weapons get bigger, the people get more satisfied, and the world SEEMS to be running smoother.

Delving into this conversation would probably merit an entirely new thread, unless people can link what they say to the original subject.

Which can now be found here... http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/247814.page#832470

I was responding not to original post but to . . .

Tyras wrote:

Manchu wrote:Tyras, do not lose faith in humanity.

In 1996 I was deployed to Camp McGovern in Northern Bosnia where I was assisting the International Warcrimes Tribunal in the Brcko (pronounced Birchko) area. The mass graves they opened, and I help document for the task force I was assigned to was full of women, children and the elderly. No military aged men were there. Through investigation it was found that the military aged men of the Bosnian Muslims in the area, were killed and then ran through a meat processing plant in an attempt to hide Serbian Warcrimes.

I have read reports and conducted de-briefings from missions in Iraq, Afghanistan, Columbia and East Timor (all areas of operations that I supported during my time in the US Army Intelligence and Security Command INSCOM) that made me sick to my stomach. I can not detail them due to thier classified nature, but needless to say the vileness of humans and their utter disregard for other humans in those reports and debriefings was astonishing.

Other than what I either saw first hand or learned second hand there's plenty open source material for anybody with the stomach to look it up that will shake anyone's faith in humanity. Everything from the guy who was shot in an armed robbery for the change he had in his pocket to the mother who kills her children, to the man who kidnaps rapes and kills a young child. That's just in what are supposed to be civilized western nations. What about the mother who has to watch the arms chopped from her childrens bodies before their still living torsos are thrown onto a fire while the assailents devour the meat on the arms in Africa? How about the woman who is stoned to death for being seen with a male she's not related to? How about the capture, torture and eventual behaeding of the guy who went to Iraq as a contractor to help rebuild that devestated nation?

All of that and much more is out there. People reading or watching reports of these things from the comfort and relative safety of a western culture don't understand how little other cultures value life. Sure, you can get robbed and killed for a near meaningless amount of goods here, but it's rare. It's common place in some areas of the world.

There is plenty to lose faith in humanity for. The kitten was a small example, and it was more for the lack of value for life, human or otherwise, than the cuddly nature of the victim that causes me to lose that much more faith.

. . . and (mostly) agreeing with . . .

Wrexasaur wrote:Have faith in yourself, and what you believe in.

Terrible things are always imminent, such as a small asteroid totally obliterating our planet. There are also good things happening, creative and inspiring things.

I say as long as the boat is afloat I am still stinking and drinking.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wrexasaur wrote:There are also a lot of other things to factor into the evolution of human situation. It is not as simple as... "Well now less people die around me, so it must be better on average." Which it actually is, but on top of this the suffering found in concentrated parts of the world are basically apocalyptic to people from even one generation ago. The weapons get bigger, the people get more satisfied, and the world SEEMS to be running smoother.

Obviously it is more complicated than "less people die." The fact is that the same amount of people have always died--i.e., 100%. I think what you mean is that less people die violent deaths these days. That's what I mean. And it's actually pretty damn important. Whatever wars still continue, they are not anywhere near as brutal as those fought less than a century ago much less the constant vendetta-motivated warfare fought by primitive peoples. As to new, more powerful weapons: at what other point in history have human beings developed a weapon and then committed themselves to not using it? Thanks more to various world religions (most prominently Catholicism--and that is a fact) than even governments and international political bodies, there is a huge support system for the world's poor and marginalized. It's not perfect and it is true, as the Man Himself said, that the poor will always be with us. But at no time in the history of our species have we tried harder or more sincerely to not only alleviate suffering but also protect the dignity of human life. If you're expecting an end to these problems and won't be satisfied until then, I don't know what to tell you. Your doom and gloom, however, are not accurate descriptions of the world at large.

There are two sides to a coin. Where there might be a parent who rapes and kills thier kids, there will be countless other parents who would lay down thier lives in an instant for thier children, showing love beyond expression.

Where there are murderers and rapists, champions of justice and mercy can also be found. It is forever destined to be that way.

Also, I think as a whole, Humanity has come a long way. Think about it, where there may now be mass graves of women and children, at least the bastards are TRYING to hide what they have done. Afraid of the consequences instead of hanging thier scalps upon thier doorstep.