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Its supposed to be WYSIWYG. Definition of that rule is that the models are majority GW bought. Cardboard stuff is not even partially GW bought.

Maybe the cardboard came from GW packaging. I remember making bunkers out of my GW boxes for a modular trench-works a couple of years ago.

Yeah, last year someone brought golf hole ball holders as droppods, yes they plastic models were not out yet, but i was a bit miffed (didnt help he took 3rd and didnt even show to the regionals).

Now I have a resin cast DP I use but it looks pretty darn close to the GW one (people ask if its a FW one) but I have plans on replacing it, I already have 3 GW Droppods..

Well I was using an army I played only once. We had a total of 4 people at our Ard boys. We had calls from Portland Oregon and California but NO ONE showed.

My first was a major Victory and I lost my second game and got a minor victory in the final game.


Anyway I played Orks and until that day it was the first time I ever actually played them for real. I played them only one other time before it.
Just so you know it was a loner army cuz I dont have 2500 in Tau or have knowledge of how to proporly use them against certain armies.

-Dragons Roost, Eagle Point Oregon
115 Main Street.

Come check us out if your in our area!

ObiFett wrote:Its supposed to be WYSIWYG. Definition of that rule is that the models are majority GW bought. Cardboard stuff is not even partially GW bought.

Granted, but he also seemed to be getting worked up at the fact that the cardboard pods weren't painted. To me, that suggests that his ire comes from the player's lack of care for modeling and painting rather than disregard for the tournament rules.

In Houston TX all the GW stores canceled there Ard boys like a day or two before the actual thing so there was only one store in Houston actually holing the tournament.

Top three were:
1. 3 Monolith Necrons (me)
2. Horde Orks
3. Horde Orks.

I played against a mech Chaos list with a lash sorc, I didn't have any major problems till I lost a monolith 4th turn that required tweaking of the overall strategy to get into position to take an objective. Second round was against a Khan marine list with lots of outflanking units and a tooled out command squad with feel no pain and storm shield all on bikes w/ a librarian, but the real problem was the deep striking 10 man assault termi squad. I got a little lucky as his reserve rolls stunk so every thing came in one at a time over the turns instead of all at once. Finally an IG player who didn't know the rules and seemed to call me out all the time I questioned him, despite his cheating, intimmidation, and making up rules I still managed to massacre him.

Danny Internets wrote:

generalgrog wrote:So I guess the Orks doing well kind of shows all the "Orks are 3rd tier" proponents that they don't know what they're talking about.


GG

Or maybe it has something to do with the fact that many TOs ruled that Deffrollas work on vehicles this year. When everyone is bringing mech and you can take cheap upgrades that makes killing every vehicle in the game completely trivial it gives you a fairly large edge.

EDIT: Also, the first round is fairly meaningless. The store I went to only had 3 participants, including myself. Needless to say, we're all going through to the semi-finals.

So if it is becoming the norm for Orks being allowed to use deffrollas to tank shock, how does that invalidate my point of Orks...NOT being 3rd tier? As some others have been trying to say in a few of the other posts this week. Not to mention Steleks rantings.

GG

I came in 2nd at the 'Ard Boyz here in Southern Maine. It was a blast - we had 24 players with a fairly good turn out of different armies. The only ones not represented were witchhunters, dark eldar, and necrons I believe. The first place winner got 70 poins with Ghazkull horde orks. I managed 54 for second place with gunline-ish tau and the third player was IG... but not mechvet.

Interestingly enough, the harder mech armies were all clustered in the 4th-10th slots. I think that the horde ork player really read the tea leaves and made a pretty good anti-mech army... as for myself, I took 6 broadsides and lots of fusion blasters.

I won the first round, with my tri-monolith + Star God Necrons.

That makes 3 years in a row of winning first rounds. Go Me!

Danny Internets wrote:Granted, but he also seemed to be getting worked up at the fact that the cardboard pods weren't painted. To me, that suggests that his ire comes from the player's lack of care for modeling and painting rather than disregard for the tournament rules.

It was not because it wasn't painted. It was because IT LOOKED LIKE A TOILET PAPER ROLL. I mean, really? You come to a tourney not having the model (GW or otherwise)?

I would have been PO'd had I played against that. I would have taken that thing into the bathroom and used it, given it back, and said "Hey! I painted it for you!"

I've seen people make really good stand-ins for vehicles, but this wasn't even funny.

So if it is becoming the norm for Orks being allowed to use deffrollas to tank shock, how does that invalidate my point of Orks...NOT being 3rd tier? As some others have been trying to say in a few of the other posts this week. Not to mention Steleks rantings.

GG

It doesn't change it, but it does make necessary the condition of a very particular and contentious interpretation of the rules. And I certainly wouldn't go so far as to say that it's becoming the norm, considering that the Adepticon FAQ no longer allows it, nor do the UK Grand Tournaments.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Uriels_Flame wrote:

Danny Internets wrote:Granted, but he also seemed to be getting worked up at the fact that the cardboard pods weren't painted. To me, that suggests that his ire comes from the player's lack of care for modeling and painting rather than disregard for the tournament rules.

It was not because it wasn't painted. It was because IT LOOKED LIKE A TOILET PAPER ROLL. I mean, really? You come to a tourney not having the model (GW or otherwise)?

I would have been PO'd had I played against that. I would have taken that thing into the bathroom and used it, given it back, and said "Hey! I painted it for you!"

I've seen people make really good stand-ins for vehicles, but this wasn't even funny.

So you were upset because of the quality of modeling, not because of the tournament rules, which is exactly what I said.

Quality is not the word I would choose, and I dare say if the tourney organizers at the next level allow that crap, it's a farse. I should have just taken my son's legos out and used them for the tourney.

ObiFett wrote:Its supposed to be WYSIWYG. Definition of that rule is that the models are majority GW bought. Cardboard stuff is not even partially GW bought.

2 of my battlewagons were mostly cardboard with a few GW bits mixed in because GW bits are pretty much the only bits that I use in my conversions. They were fully painted and even the judges were impressed with how orky they looked.





The crappiest, weediest battlewagon that I have is a heavily converted GW battlewagon that I made out of a couple of rhinos and a tank trap sprue years ago. At least no one can argue that it's "ok" to use.



To be honest, I was hesitant to even bother going because I was paranoid about someone calling me on them and insisting that they weren't "tournament legal". In the end I'm glad that I went and I ended up taking a battlewagon boxed set for my prize so hopefully I'll have it finished by the semi-finals so that it won't be an issue.

Afrikan Blonde wrote:I came in 2nd place with my daemon hunters. 1st place was Chaos daemons and 3rd place was also Chaos daemons.

Congratulations ! Glad you pulled it off with an army people say can't win..Even if some would say you had an advantage over your opponents, I don't care glad DH got to place in the top 3...

ObiFett wrote:
Gratz on advancing to the next round! You gonna attend semi-finals?

The Eldar player wasn't one of the James', it was actually a player from salt lake, as was the IG player. They were both great players and the Eldar guy got massacres plus near full bonus points in each round. I guess they were both buddies of the infamous Stelek but they were great players and added to the tournament alot.

Yeah the Semi-Finals are being held at the same store that the qualifier I attended was at, so no problem there. Congrats to you too. Can't say I'm surprised to see that you qualified. Too bad more guys from DK didn't, but that's life. Where are your semis being held?

I assume they are gonna be held at the Keep.

Best part about the tournament was getting to play different armies. I had never played against Sisters of Battle nor Dark Eldar. They were some intensely fun games.

And I'm not surprised you finished top 3 either. We had a good rivalry going when you were here. You are still the toughest opponent I have played.

Danny Internets wrote:

Uriels_Flame wrote:Really? Cheating in this round? When 3 people get to go?

What a tool.

Serioulsy, I think most organizers should have put a little time into just checking the armies. I saw people with cardboard pods (not painted) and a freaking pipe fitter for another called "DA Drop" painted on top.

Now if one of these people won, are they seriously going to the regional with that trash?

What's wrong with cardboard proxies if they are of the correct dimensions? It's a tournament, not a hobby convention.

As a TO for a regional 'Ardboyz, I can tell you that all cardboard proxies will be taken off the table, and that person will play the game with less than 2500 points. You don't have to paint models for 'Ardboyz, you do have to have WYSIWYG models. If what I see is cardboard, it goes in the trash.

The models that Artyboy posted pictures of, I would not consider to be a proxie. A toilet paper tube is just that. The cardboard battlewagons look fine.

Very reasonable decision, sir.

Sarigar wrote:Very reasonable decision, sir.

Reasonable, but completely hypocritical.

In one sentence he says "all cardboard proxies will be taken off the table" because of the tournament rules (emphasis mine), then in the next he says that he would allow a cardboard proxy that looks good. If you're going to run a good tournament the most important thing you should do above ALL ELSE is apply the rules CONSISTENTLY (and thereby fairly).

I sure hope he's not running the semi-finals that I'm attending. You're not in New Jersey, are you mikhaila?

40kenthusiast wrote:I won the first round, with my tri-monolith + Star God Necrons.

That makes 3 years in a row of winning first rounds. Go Me!

Nice job 40KE!

Danny Internets wrote:Reasonable, but completely hypocritical.

In one sentence he says "all cardboard proxies will be taken off the table" because of the tournament rules (emphasis mine), then in the next he says that he would allow a cardboard proxy that looks good. If you're going to run a good tournament the most important thing you should do above ALL ELSE is apply the rules CONSISTENTLY (and thereby fairly).

I think his point is about WYSIWYG. You don't see a WYSIWYG difference between a toilet paper tube and artyboy's models?

gorgon wrote:I think his point is about WYSIWYG. You don't see a WYSIWYG difference between a toilet paper tube and artyboy's models?

Regarding the tournament rules, there is zero difference. Cardboard is cardboard, cardboard is not a Citadel model.

I'm not saying that the model shouldn't be allowed--it's a fantastic scratch-build. However, it would be extremely unfair (and unprofessional) of a TO to quote the rules and allow some people to use their cardboard models and not others.

I managed to pull out first place with my Dark Eldar raider fleet. I won the first round of 'Ard Boyz last year but couldn't go to the semi's because my wife had to have a pretty serious jaw surgery, so I am very happy to have a chance to go this year. The other two spots went to a dual Lith+star god+destroyes Necron list and a guard list with DH allies both of which I played against.

Danny Internets wrote:I'm not saying that the model shouldn't be allowed--it's a fantastic scratch-build. However, it would be extremely unfair (and unprofessional) of a TO to quote the rules and allow some people to use their cardboard models and not others.

Are you serious? A toilet roll vs an actual scratch build with actual bits?

I play orks.
1st round mech eldar. Major victory
2nd round foot sloggin orks. Massacre
3rd round....
Drop pod Marines (with plasticard drop pod marines..no citadel parts)finished turn 4 and time ran out, I had a major victory. the guy starts saying if you want to win like that go ahead, poeple are still playing we can finish.
I hate whinners and this was my first offical tourny so I said hurry up and lets go. we powers through last two turns and would have tied but.... Warp gate to last objective (with drop pod out of range) no scatter roll, hey look he wins a massacre. looked up warp gate rule after he left when someone told me he could not do that. he took second and isnt even going to next round.
I love this hobby but this douche RUINED MY GOOD TIME!
I don't care about loosing but at least play honestly ya gak head. Would have finished second but dems da breaks. next comp I wont treat so relaxed against someone who was being a rulez nazi through the whole match anyway(I was just way to nice about the whole situation).

Rant over.

@Artyboy- After playing your battlewagons I have to say that at times I wanted to call you on them because they weren't so klunking huge as the GW one, but thankfully my land raiders are so clunking huge that they could still see them. they didn't look like a piece of crap though, and they fit with your overall scheme. I would totally take out the little tiny one and replace it with the real model, I think that is where you will run into the most opposition. Tough list though. Good game.

@ Grimgob- that totally sucks dude, I am sorry.

As for my experience (I actually got to go!!! YAY!)
I took 2nd with a 5 land raider DH list

1st game against ArtyBoy's orks- epic fail on my part, I deployed badly, tactically played badly, he won by objectives, I had more kill points, Major victory him, a few random points me.

2nd Game- Space marines- after that warm up game I played much better, blowing up everything with my LRs, the highlight of the game was when my 2 Grey knight squads (10 man, 2 incinerators each) shot then cc'd lysander and his 10 man terminator squad, 2 turns and lysander is gone!! Massacare victory 14 kp to 1 kp, a few bonus points tacked on.

3rd Game- Necrons- I heard he was a slow player so I rushed my turns. My grand master and his 5 man termie retinue was the MVP here killing 42 necron warriors, 5 flayed ones, and a necron lord (thank you force weapons). with a little help from my other grey knights, he phased out, massacare for me, with a few bonus points.

2nd place behind artyboy.

Uriels_Flame wrote:

Danny Internets wrote:I'm not saying that the model shouldn't be allowed--it's a fantastic scratch-build. However, it would be extremely unfair (and unprofessional) of a TO to quote the rules and allow some people to use their cardboard models and not others.

Are you serious? A toilet roll vs an actual scratch build with actual bits?

Yes. Read the rules. Are they somehow unclear to you or are you just being argumentative?

Any conversions must begin as Citadel models and
contain a majority of Citadel components.

Non-Citadel models may not be used in the event.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m90029a_40KArdBoyzRules.pdf

I was able to get a place in the regionals...but it was close. The guy that came in second and I actually tied each other in the KP mission.
Our 'Ardboyz...12 entrants

1st - SeerCouncil
2nd - BAngels
3rd - Vulkan Drop (me)

Can't wait for the regionals, going to be intense!!

Here in PA the results were as follows

C:SM - Khan List

Sisters - 3 exorcists sister/Rhino spam

Daemonhunters (Me) - 4 landraiders, 3 rhinos, Calidus assassin


It was a god day of battles and some people did slowhammer their way through it. Looked as though guard was gonna pull off some big wins , just didnt happen though. I think my list is good enough for Semis.. but now that i see so many horde armies moving on .. i just dont think i can handle horde in annihilate. Im thinking about changing my list for the next round to a shrike nul zone librarian drop list.. but i really want to represent DH in the tournies.. puling off something special like another placing would be great for those of us that think DH cant win.

I kicked hell out of everyone I played last week, just don't ask me how many people I played...