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Zapp Gun's has 3BS due to grot crew.

But anyway zapp gun's are too random to surely wreck land raider

Erm...

Okay, fluff in the guard codex.

goes something like "After his tank was run over by an ork battlewagon, and it's turret destroyed by the battlewagon's deff rolla"

So explain how deff rollas cant tank shock again?

AAaaanyway, i'll second the ignore it crowd.
Or be playing the awesome fun of the army with every random unit you're allowed (SAG, Zzap guns, wierdboyz, etc), and shoot everything at it until one of them gets a double-6 and kills it.

budro wrote:sadly, fast vehicles (not skimmers) can only move 18" unless you happen to have a road. So the most a trukk will ever get is S6 on the ram.

Ah. I'm thinking of using turbo boost to smash into things. Turbo-boosting things can hit 24". I assume they CAN turbo boost? If they can't, then never mind...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If that fails, just get a whole load of Dreads and Kans and get 'em in close combat. Strength 10 Dredd weapons. Snip!

Battle Brother Loken wrote:

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:Ghazghkull is almost guaranteed to take out a LR.

Yah but he is slow and almost as many points as a raider

a typical LR runs about 250. i think gaz (correct me if im wrong) is about 325. I run an IG army and i cant tell you how much of my stuff hes killed

Kanz are an integral part of my "get rid of the land raider" Plan. They are honestly the only thing that gets the job done well and prevents massive damage from the contents. You need alot of them, and I put rokkits on mine (rokkits for the chance of a glance to slow the LR down, as slim of a chance as that may be) Assaulting the LR is the most successful way orks have to stop it, period. S10 attacks where the WS doesnt matter makes the kan perfect for this role. Additionally if you can Stun or immobilize it in your assault phase, or for some reason the driver doesnt move away from you, you have another combat in your opponents phase, where you hit automatically.

KingCracker wrote:I play Orks, and I thikn its insane that people think it CAN hurt another vehicle. The deffrolla is designed to squich troops on the ground. ITs a steam roller basically. The fact that people read the rules for it, and spin it so it CAN attack vehicles are just cheaters that have that win at all costs type of attitude

and I believe that people who endlessly argue against it have the same attitude but favor playing with armies besides orks in a competitive environment. The RAW favors the stance that it works. It specifically says in the rulebook that ramming is a special form of tank shock. Nowhere does it say that it only works when you tank shock troops. Trying to defend against it by saying that a steam roller couldn't hurt a vehicle is laughable. Put a big, spike encrusted steamroller on the front of a huge, lumbering tank and I imagine that it would do damage to anything that gets in front of it. Saying "I play orks, I'm against it and anyone who tries to justify it is a cheater" is the equivalent of making a racist comment and then saying "and some of my best friends are black".

Special, Dictionary.com wrote:spe⋅cial
  /ˈspɛʃəl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [spesh-uhl] Show IPA
Use special in a Sentence
–adjective
1. of a distinct or particular kind or character: a special kind of key.
2. being a particular one; particular, individual, or certain: You'd better call the special number.
3. pertaining or peculiar to a particular person, thing, instance, etc.; distinctive; unique: the special features of a plan.
4. having a specific or particular function, purpose, etc.: a special messenger.
5. distinguished or different from what is ordinary or usual: a special occasion; to fix something special.
6. extraordinary; exceptional, as in amount or degree; especial: special importance.
7. being such in an exceptional degree; particularly valued: a special friend.

As for the effectiveness, I think that people overblow it bigtime. During 'ard boyz I was running 3 battlewagons with deffrollaz. My first game was against a 5 land raider demon hunters list. I killed 4 of his land raiders. None of them died to my deffrollaz. I did manage to immobilize one but that's the only damage that they did. The rest of them were popped with power klawz and that was with him moving 6 inches per turn.

The second game was against necrons. His monolith didn't come in until the end of the last turn so once again, they were a non issue.

The third game was against a vanilla marine list with a land raider. Once again, my nobs popped his land raider and the deffrollaz did nothing.

This is a pretty typical result in all of my games. Either the battlewagons are popped before they make it all the way across the table, my opponent is smart enough to avoid getting rammed or I get the ram in and it just doesn't do that much. They're not some magic bullet that people try to make it out to be. They just make it a bit easier for orks to deal with armor 14.

budro wrote:sadly, fast vehicles (not skimmers) can only move 18" unless you happen to have a road. So the most a trukk will ever get is S6 on the ram.

The problem with ramming is that you'll never get the max strength - you get +1 for each full 3" moved so you have to be exactly 18" away to get S6.

So, best for a truck with no road is +5 for speed and +2 for armour (reinforced ram) = S7

Ramming sucks against armour 14 - S8 is the best that anyone can get. (AV12 fast tank or AV14 regular tank) Are there any AV13+ fast tanks?

Well I stand corrected on the deff rolla. I said that thinking (I could of sworn even) that it was in the GW FAQ on not being able to ram vehicles with it. But there nothing there either in the Ork or rule book FAQ. SO Ill retract my previous statement, and go with the running over vehicles as well.

Scott-S6 wrote:

budro wrote:sadly, fast vehicles (not skimmers) can only move 18" unless you happen to have a road. So the most a trukk will ever get is S6 on the ram.

The problem with ramming is that you'll never get the max strength - you get +1 for each full 3" moved so you have to be exactly 18" away to get S6.

So, best for a truck with no road is +5 for speed and +2 for armour (reinforced ram) = S7

Ramming sucks against armour 14 - S8 is the best that anyone can get. (AV12 fast tank or AV14 regular tank) Are there any AV13+ fast tanks?

Well, wave serpents get S10 rams, but you probably weren't talking about skimmers

Does a wave serpent have the Tank attribute?

My Orks punch Land Raiders. That's right. They punch them.

KingCracker wrote:I play Orks, and I thikn its insane that people think it CAN hurt another vehicle. The deffrolla is designed to squich troops on the ground. ITs a steam roller basically. The fact that people read the rules for it, and spin it so it CAN attack vehicles are just cheaters that have that win at all costs type of attitude

If you read the fluff, there are stories of deffrolla's destroying light vehicles and light tanks. Just because people see something differently from you, doesn't mean they are cheating.

Scott-S6 wrote:Does a wave serpent have the Tank attribute?

Yep (checked just now to be on the safe side) :]

Scott-S6 wrote:Does a wave serpent have the Tank attribute?

Yes.

Jamora:

No, it doesn't mean they're cheating. It does mean that they are misreading the background though. The back material on p.55 of Codex: Orks says:

"A Krusha's driver will spend much of the battle steamrollering enemy infantry and light vehicles, cackling manically all the while."

Is this evidence that the designers intended for Deff Rollas to work against the game objects designated "Vehicles" via the Ramming rule?

No, it does not, because light vehicles are represented in the rules by the Biker rules, which can be subject to Tank Shock.

Nurglitch wrote:Jamora:

No, it doesn't mean they're cheating. It does mean that they are misreading the background though. The back material on p.55 of Codex: Orks says:

"A Krusha's driver will spend much of the battle steamrollering enemy infantry and light vehicles, cackling manically all the while."

Is this evidence that the designers intended for Deff Rollas to work against the game objects designated "Vehicles" via the Ramming rule?

No, it does not, because light vehicles are represented in the rules by the Biker rules, which can be subject to Tank Shock.

You had me until the "light vehicles are represented in the rules by the biker rules."

There is no GW definition of "light vehicle." I would consider things like land speeders, buggies, war walkers, and maybe even rhinos as "light vehicles." Of course, neither my opinion or yours is represented in the rules.

ShotgunFacelift wrote:Either avoid it, or kill it with PK's.

As the orks BS is so low i dont like the idea of spending the points on a Zzzap gun.

I'd rather spend the points on PK's or more meat shielding to make sure my Pks get there.

Zzzap Guns are a bit rubbish anyway; the litany of fail starts at the fact they're not AP1 and continues all the way down to "Grots crew them". Kannon Batteries aren't bad, neither are MegaBlasta Kans, or indeed PowerKlaws.

The basic idea is, whatever you're going to take, make sure you have more than you'll ever think you'd need.

Frank Fugger wrote:The basic idea is, whatever you're going to take, make sure you have more than you'll ever think you'd need.

I would like to agree with this statement tenfold.

KaloranSLC wrote:

Frank Fugger wrote:The basic idea is, whatever you're going to take, make sure you have more than you'll ever think you'd need.

I would like to agree with this statement tenfold.

I think this is basic for lots of ork 'taktikz'

From experiance Kans or deff dreads seem to be the best way to take out raiders. All the ork player needs is an immobilzed result becfore the hurt really starts on a land raider. Also, with a 225+ point price tag, Land Raiders tend to take up so many points that an army has to be based around the function of the land raider. In general, most effective lists don't throw a land raider in "for the hell of it" like we would another rhino or land speeder.

In regards to the deff rolla on vehicles I'm in the camp that does not think the rolla works in a ram, the reasons are simple.

Ramming is a special form of tank shock, meaning that while all rammings ARE tank shocks, all tank shocks ARE NOT rammings.
The two have differences: being able to shoot vs not being able to shoot, declaring the distance moved beforehand vs. moving max distance.

Until an FAQ or Phil Kelly comes out and says that Deff Rollas work in a ram I will play that they don't.

Land Raiders certainly are the toughest unit an Ork army can face. Generally I focus on other assets. Yes it is possible for ork shooting to neutralize a Land Raider but it takes luck and a hell of a lot of shooting. Besides, your opponent wants you to shoot at the Land Raider and for that reason alone you should shoot at something else. Nevertheless if you have to take out a Land Raider use a Warboss with PK perhaps mounted utilizing a boarding plank, Shokk Attack Guns are ordinance but you'll need luck, Killa Kans and Deff Dredds if they can get close.