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I spend less money on GW than my girlfriend does on shoes/handbags.


On the other hand I can't tell my parents/GF to buy it for me. $30 on one piece of pewter is a bit much for some.

Had more trouble justifying the costs of my other hobby, triathlons. Have spent £800+ this year on a bike, wetsuit, goggles, trisuits, running shoes, not to mention entry fees.

Could have bought Spear of Sicarius for that! (I wouldn't have though, because I refuse to buy a huge box set that doesn't constitute a saving).

As for GW models, as long as I don't go mad, she's usually fine with it. £25 per month is my own set limit, which normally gets me a box set and any additional paints, glue etc that may be required.

OK... Justification for the prices is very different then justifying the expenditures to folks outside your realm.



PRICE justification

From a strict inflationary standpoint CPI purchasing power of $1.00 has declined from 1988 to today. Essentially you should be able to buy $1.00 worth of 1988 goods for $1.82. you can find this information on Burea of Labor Statistics




These are 2 RT purchases I have in my inventory of figs. Now.. I don't believe the labels on them are list price but discounted to sell in a retail environment. However, taken at fact:

The inflation on a Wartraxx from $9.74 in 1988 to $25.00 is 257%. The rate of inflation of a single Space marine went from $1.50 to $3.50. The inflation rate of 233%. (remember this is on the high side of the equation b/c I believe these prices to be discounted).

However if you take the inflation rate with 20% retailer discount you get to 187% for the marine and 205% for the wartraxx.

I'd argue that the marine plastic kit is considerably better then the metals with the options available.

So from the standpoint of creating an army, GW has kept its prices inline with inflation in this example. I'd argue that it the advent of plastics has (as a measure against inflation) actually made the price of playing an army lower in todays dollars then 1988 dollars (especially true of WHFB).

http://www.natoonline.org/statisticstickets.htm

I've also included the rate of inflation on Movie Tickets - 173%. This rate is published by the theater owners. I'm taking it with a grain of salt.

I'd love someone to be able to find the rate of inflation of a sporting event ticket since these are all "entertainment" dollars.


Now... How to justify spending the money to yourself and anyone else.

EXPENSE JUSTIFICATION

I justify my expense as "entertainment" dollars.

If I buy a single metal figure for $15. It will take 5 hours to assemble and paint. I get $3.00 and hour in hobby time.

if I go to a movie it cost 7.18/2 hours = $3.59 an hour. Already the GW hobby is cheaper by the entertainment hour.

Now lets factor in 2 more bang for your buck with miniature hobbying.
a) Play with my figure
b) sell them

PLAY:
If I have a 50 figure army, I may play 50 games before I get bored and sell this army. So 50 games at 2 hours a game is 100 hours of play. Divided by 50 figures = 2 hours of net play per figure.

My $15 figure purchase has now netted 7 hours of entertainment reducing its cost to $2.14 an hour.


Sell the figure.
If I can sell the figure for a mere 20% of retail value (or more http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/27619-Eldrad.html ) then my actual base cost is 12.00/7 hours or $1.71 an hour.


So compared to Movies as a "base" form of entertainment this is a win... Not even counting a bucket of Popcorn.

Man... I feel so good I might have to go to the forgeworld site.

I preferred it when they all had different colourful packaging. Now it's all generic Grimdark stuff.

Wrexasaur wrote:

Osbad wrote:It is actually a mild psychological disorder I believe. Its simply "shopaholicism". We buy stuff because we believe buying stuff will make us feel better. The advertising hype convinces us that if we buy X our lives will improve immesurably. We also equate buying toys for ourselves with giving ourselves a little present, and we all like getting presents! A hobbyist accumulating a lead pile is just the same as his wife filling her closet with handbags and shoes. No difference at all.

Yes it is most definitely a real disorder and while I cannot say GW is any worse than a shoe company, the fact that they employ these tactics and possibly influence children into worsening a possible disorder, and I actually feel sick because of it.

Find support here if you need it, people care, and you can find better ways to cope with what you feel.
http://www.shopaholicsanonymous.org/

Compulsive Buying Scale © Valence. D’Astous & Fortier
Express the extent to which you agree or disagree with each of the following statements.


When I have money, I cannot help
but spend part or all of it.

I am often impulsive in my
buying behavior.

For me, shopping is a way of facing the
stress of my daily life and relaxing.

I sometimes feel that something inside
pushed me to go shopping.

There are times when I have a
strong urge to buy.

At times, I have felt somewhat guilty
after buying a product, because it
seemed unreasonable.

There are some things I buy that I do not
show to anybody for fear of being perceived
as irrational in my buying behavior.

I often have an unexplainable urge, a
sudden and spontaneous desire, to go and
buy something.

As soon as I enter a shopping center or mall,
I have an irresistible urge to go into a shop
and buy something.

I am one of those people who often
respond to direct mail offers.

I have often bought a product that
I did not need, while knowing that I have
very little money left.

I am a spendthrift.

I have sometimes thought “If I had to do it
over again, I would…” and felt sorry for
something I have done or said.


Calculating your score:
• 5 for “strongly agree”, 4 for “somewhat agree”, 3 for “neither agree nor disagree”, 2 for “somewhat disagree, and 1 for “strongly disagree.
• Add together the 13 numbers for your Xs to get your total scale score.
• Compulsive buyers tend to score 42.2 or higher.

jgemrich wrote:
From a strict inflationary standpoint CPI purchasing power of $1.00 has declined from 1988 to today. Essentially you should be able to buy $1.00 worth of 1988 goods for $1.82. you can find this information on Burea of Labor Statistics

Although, the inflation number that you're referring to isn't the whole story. Try to buy $1 of 1988 gasoline for $1.87... Some resources have outpaced the average inflation (among them, oil, which is used in the creation of plastic toy soldiers, and tin, which is used in the production of metal toy soldiers), while other things track below the average inflation (goldfish (the pets, not the snack crackers), for example, don't cost anymore today than they did in 1980.)

I'm 35 years old and work for my money. I justify none of this to anyone.

Justified by time spent enjoying the purchase. Building, painting, playing, travelling for big events are all enjoyable - each purchase gobbles up a lot of free time enjoying my hobby.

This is ultimately what money is for, right?

I justify GW's pricing through the vast discounts indies offer although now I'm inclined to purchase more of their GW direct metals since plastics are likely going to be just as expensive in the near future. DAMN YOU GW FOR SOMEHOW MAKING ME WANT METALS ARRRGHHH WHY DO I LOVE IG?!!?! I also buy military kits to supplement my IG army; when the Valkyrie came out I went ahead and converted one out of a 1/48 HinD and bitz and my Demolisher is based off of a $15 tank as opposed to GW's ~$50 one.

How would I justify buying full retail? I don't. I realize the prices are a sham and that I'm addicted but I've really got no one to "answer to" since I'm not around those types of people. I was raised in a family where my dad collected hobby trains (from tiny ones to LGB scaled) and coins so I guess it was inevitable that some of that would rub off on me and become a part of my life.

Compared to past hobbies like paintballing and learning to fly an airplane; GW products are cheaper and sometimes have more value since a days worth of paintballing at a field costs at least $50 whereas $50 of GW stuff will still be around unlike your splattered paintballs. Not the best of comparisons but you get my drift.

I too justify none of my purchases to anyone, unless she who must be obeyed catches me sneaking through the house with bags of stuff or intercepts parcels before I can reach them.

Then any and all discounts received become insignificant when comapred to the true horror that is the Missus getting her revenge by buying her own treats (shoes of course!) with my credit card!

I don't justify it. It is something I want so I buy it. If we don't have the money for it I sell other minis to get the money for it.

Sounds to me like a more appropriate word would be "rationalize".

And I don't because I buy what I want when I want it.

It's easy:

I am not in the bar every night anymore
I quit smoking
I don't upgrade my Computer every 3 months anymore
I only have 1 car
I don't play in a band/buy guitars & amps anymore
I'm the breadwinner

My wife's just happy I am using my artistic abilities. I also sell painted stuff and bits to accommodate, which helps pay the bills as well.

I just looked up some prices on regular plastic models of heavy tanks and such, around $40-$50

GW Heavy Support Prices (for space marines anyways) falls into the same range, so it seems fair to me.

Edit: I do see however, that the 'better' heavy supports seem to be overpriced (Nearly $60 for a Battlewagon or a Land Raider?) I'm trying to think about it and buy smart though.

I don't tell her how much I am paying. Once she starts helping balance the checkbook then we can talk about justifying the prices.
She knows it is a hobby I love and get excited about. I like moding models, and she knows that I don't go out and spend tons of cash on other things. The way I see it, if I tell her about the things I DIDN'T buy, she will be happy won't mind the occasional small purchase...

I point to the car they drive, the dresses they wear, the music they listen to, the movies they watch, the sound system they purchased, the cigars they smoke, the booz they consume, the clubs they frequent, the kayak they own, and the makeup they wear. Then I remind them if they wanted to give all that stuff up, then they too could play with little plastic men with toy guns.

Trasvi wrote:I spend less money on GW than my girlfriend does on shoes/handbags.

I spend less money on GW than my wife saves.

Wait...

I don't justify my spending to anyone else. I have a modest personal annual hobby / entertainment budget that I stick to. Thus, I only need to justify any GW expenditures to myself.

For a very long time, I haven't accepted GW retail prices, except for the occasional bitz order which would be cheaper than ordering via 3rd party. But my primary preference is to trade stuff on discount pre-increase that I can trade for other stuff.

Spending more? Only if it's awesome, like a Baneblade, Shadowsword, or Valkyrie. But even then, I only buy on deep discount.

The prices are insanely over inflated. I cant stand seeing how much these can cost. But I truly love this hobby. There is a point where Ill just say no friggin way and stop paying it.
Hobbies are usually expensive tho. You think this is pricey? Get into mud bogging. Now thats an expensive hobby. I got lucky and bought a truck that never broke down on me lol. But my buddy on the other hand, in 1 summer had to replace 2 front axles, a motor, a transmission 1 tire a bent drive shaft and I think he broke a head light lol.

starbomber109 wrote:I just looked up some prices on regular plastic models of heavy tanks and such, around $40-$50

GW Heavy Support Prices (for space marines anyways) falls into the same range, so it seems fair to me.

Edit: I do see however, that the 'better' heavy supports seem to be overpriced (Nearly $60 for a Battlewagon or a Land Raider?) I'm trying to think about it and buy smart though.

Yes but for that you are getting a scale model kit. It's supposed to accurate to real life and someone, or some people, have measured the real thing and then someone has sculpted an exact scale replica, the level of intricate, fine detail is much greater. GW has none of those issues because they are making something fictional. There's no such thing as it being "the wrong shape/size". That's what you're paying for from companies like Tamyia, Dragon, Revell, etc, the two aren't comparable.

I show my wife how much it is on the GW website and then I show her how much I am actually buying it for. That and how much I saved in my coin bank just to buy it.

I rarely buy new stuff, I used to build armies off of tournament winnings and trading...

I have a ton of minis I dont use, I bought (traded) these 5-10 years ago. Funny enough I think of GW stuff as investments, the value will only go up with the price increases and kit trooper quantity shrinkage.

Ive become fortunate enough to form a small miniature company and I have good distributor connections to get good prices on stuff I do need. I just bought a Land Speeder Storm and Ironclad at you-cant-beat-em prices..

Unfortunately I just bought some Vulcan (20$) and Khan (17$)models direct and my butt still hurts from the GW Direct rapage... but if you play tournaments you have to use the real models...

In any case, I am pretty much done buying GW models, Ill trade, convert or newly sculpt and cast what I need now, too bad not everyone has access to sculptors and casters to feed the habit.

Perhaps "justifying" is not the word i should be using , and the sibbling / parents / to be justified are just an example ( since players of VARIOUS ages all post on dakka )
There is no need to throw in whether someone can afford , and who pays for it into this.
(after all , humans constantly try to justify their actions for everything no? whether you should walk faster , drink extra cup of water or not , even the minor things )
unless im using the wrong word.

If i can find an example to what im trying to ask is... equivalent to the pic below . Surely anyone can afford $5 , but is that all there is to it?
i liked the variation of answer of "the hobby and time i can spend on it is rather cheap"

I guess I'm lucky. I don't have to justify it to anyone because it's my money and I'll spend it however I wanna

Some people smoke, some people are hardcore gamers, some people go to Alaska or Chile to catch trout (really, we got this card in the mail advertising that). Some people drop half a dozen Franklins on hunting gear, then more on a gun. Some people have more golf clubs than they do clothes.

Facetious comments aside, since I don't hunt, don't golf, and can't smoke, I play fourtykay. I am a bit of a gamer, and fish, but I don't have those little SONAR devices and stuff like that which not only ruin the sport but cost an arm and a half. I buy all my models second hand, if I can, and thus rarely (if ever) buy from GW these days.

It's my little nerdy pasttime. The girlfriend understands, the family understands(ish), and I enjoy it. In the end, that's all that really matters.

Rico.

Necros wrote:I guess I'm lucky. I don't have to justify it to anyone because it's my money and I'll spend it however I wanna

I know i know , again i apologize , it seems like justify is not the correct word .

What im trying to ask is , how do you decide to spend $70 for $5 plastic , over say saving up for a new computer ( for example , maybe car , video game etc etc )

I buy very little anymore. What I do buy, is to justify the use of the gaming store. Not to kind to show up and play, and never buy anything. Most of my hobby money goes to getting my stuff painted now.

djones520 wrote:I buy very little anymore. What I do buy, is to justify the use of the gaming store. Not to kind to show up and play, and never buy anything. Most of my hobby money goes to getting my stuff painted now.

Thank you , this is the type of answer im looking for.

I don't buy much anymore. I've sold all but one of my armies (VC WHFB, when I finish it I'm selling it though). But I do plan on building three armies and my own gaming table. Not soon but in about a year or two when I'm out of this stint of schooling. I'll start building them really slowly but occasionally I mention how much I spend on a single box of miniatures (16 DA [is that right?] is 35$, 10 CSM is 35$, a SM dreadnaught is 40$). It's never been an issue but I always look at it in terms of food pricing when I go out to eat. I can either take my gf out to dinner tonight (Applebee's) or I can buy a box of miniatures. If people ask I just confess and tell them I waste tons of money on overpriced plastic toy soldiers, but then I tell them "I have money to waste though".

In that case, I buy it because I love to paint the miniatures. I have always enjoyed art since I was in kindergarten. Unfortuantely, I don't use those skills in the job I am in. I co-manage two manufacturing companies...not the most visually creative avenues of employment, especially as I find myself dealing alot with cost accounting and handling our financing.

So this is really my creative outlet as well as a system of stress relief...and after a long day of dealing with employees, customers, and suppliers, I need the outlet.

I suppose there are cheaper outlets for painting that I could pursue, but I enjoy the added benefit that the strategic element of game play provides as well as the social elements. Also, I have been exclusively painting miniatures for over 10 years now; accordingly, my other artistic skills have lasped. Though I could get back into the groove of canvas and water color painting given time, the added investment would be a hurtle that I am not in a rush to overcome.

Lastly, given my employment coupled with my single status, I have the discretionary income to support the hobby.