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R&D for new mini's? Oh come on now, we all know that blue marines are the big hit! You'd need to be slowed if you're researching what the big GW hit is!

The probability of me harbouring an extra chromosome are pretty well null. Wishful thinking, yes. The glass may as well be half full if it is already half empty.

However, you're right that we'll see a lot more blue and inverted Omegas in the future. In the future there is no peace, only war and blue marines.

BrookM wrote:Would you like some Space Marines to go with those Space Marines and Space Marines?

Depends on how much Space Marine paint and Space Marine glue they have.
Space Marine you GW, get over your Space Marining Space Marines and Space Marine off.

xowainx wrote:Or, more accurately, sell what is by far and away your most popular and well known range in places that currently don't offer any of your products for sale and aren't large enough to carry a full range as an introductory product in order to promote and spread your brand...

I can't see why more people don't seem to understand this.

These stores either can't or won't stock the full range of GW products. But GW still wants to sell product in these stores. Logical solution: Put the most approachable and highest selling product on these shelves, as this will have a two-fold effect: More people get into the hobby (via increased exposure) and they get more money for the effort (and shelf space).

More exposure and increased sales is good for the hobby. What's good for the hobby is good for the hobbyist. Beyond that, who cares what they're selling to the rubes in some gas station?

Because some people can't separate their preferences from sound business decisions.

Protip: market something all you want and if people don't like it it will flop. See New Coke.

The Unending: It's a generalization based on a demographic. Terminator robot killing machines and muscular green guys (think hulk) also would appeal to that group. So would well sculpted female models with boobies mixed in ;-)

I like the design of Eldar and love painting them. That being said if I had to pick SM or Eldar as a primary product and face of *my business*, I know what I would pick.

In light of Dawn of War 2 and the previewed "Space Marine" game, they are the product line that makes the most sense.

Someone who is exposed to those games may pick up a box on a lark in a store like that.

They are not likely to search out a GW store or even a FLGS.


People who play video games and haven't been exposed to tabletop gaming don't go to the LGS.

But they will go to the mall, or other shop, and maybe they see these and recognize them from the E3 videos, or their buddy's comp game.

That is their target, I believe. Anyone with previous exposure to Tabletop Games is going to know there is more than just Marines.

Welcome to SM40k..

In the grim darkness that is GW's marketing policy... there is only SPAZ MARINES HURRRR!

jp400 wrote:Welcome to SM40k..

In the grim darkness that is GW's marketing policy... there is only SPAZ MARINES HURRRR!

Win

Space Marines sell because thematically and visually they are rather cool to a wide range of peoples, and they have a backstory, such as it is, that is rather fun too. This then extends to CSM as well, just for those who like more grimdark on their cereal than normal.

And they are heroic, but marginally relatable, as opposed to Tyranids, lets say, who are giant gribbly bugs. Or Necrons.


Cool rules have something to do with it, but you find a lot of people buying it for the cool models/painting/fluff than for the current ed. rules. Also the fact that Space Marines are such all rounders to play with, you can do what you like, as opposed to Necrons or Tau, or Dark Eldar to a lesser extent, who are forced into 1 or 2 playing styles by unit choices etc.

GW will do a heck of a lot to ensure these big sellers do well. They will also work even harder to make slight thematic/schematic changes to Space Marines/SM wargear/SM vehicles to entice people to buy more of a product - why wouldn't they? I don't blame them for it, its a business thing. I'm just glad they don't axe large lines of product to make way for more marines (yes, I know there will be much QQ for Inquisition and LatD players about this, but hey), and at least put some effort into getting revisions out or future revisions for DE, Nids, Tau and Necrons. Even if DE is probably their weakest line after SOB.

And for those who QQ that Marines don't need advertising - why wouldn't they advertise their most popular line to bring in new players? Its not like that when you start playing, you get a GW approved ultramarines chip in your brain, ensuring you can never ever play a non SM army again.
/stereotype
And no, Tau and Eldar are lame enough that no amount of advertising is really going to make them super popular outside of the slightly artistic/autistic crowd they currently attract.
/end stereotype

Orlanth wrote:

Besides if you get big enough you might get free advertising from repeat customers on the opposite side of the world.

skrulnik wrote:

People who play video games and haven't been exposed to tabletop gaming don't go to the LGS.

Oh, I don't know, we like to count how many people come walking into the GW store and ask if they carry the Wii...
Sometimes leads to a demo game and another AoBR off the shelves.

Stormtrooper X wrote:

Kirasu wrote:I say dark eldar because the whole "crab claws" thing turns me off about daemonettes

Nah, you gotta be willing to change it up a bit. Just imagine the things you could do with a crab claw.

Congratulations, you have just blasted what shreds of Sanity I have left.

Stupid thread is stupid.

AlexCage wrote:

I can't see why more people don't seem to understand this.

These stores either can't or won't stock the full range of GW products. But GW still wants to sell product in these stores. Logical solution: Put the most approachable and highest selling product on these shelves, as this will have a two-fold effect: More people get into the hobby (via increased exposure) and they get more money for the effort (and shelf space).

More exposure and increased sales is good for the hobby. What's good for the hobby is good for the hobbyist. Beyond that, who cares what they're selling to the rubes in some gas station?

Indeed. Im not a Marine player but I fully accept that Marines are the Breadwinner of the hobby and without them GW wouldn't function. Or would just be another sci-fi gaming company with the occasional 1 page ad in Wargames Illustrated. All of our favorite non SM races have plenty of investment because of the money that SM bring in.

The reason that these stockist don't carry non SM is much the same reason that Tesco only stock the top 20 albums or the top 20 video games. It's not their main line and so to sell anything other than guaranteed fast moving stock is suicide. GW have the luxury of being able to keep slow movers in store your local model shop does not. Simple as that.

In the Grim Darkness of the future there is only space marines

That's why Choas Mariens were invented.

I have to assume that GW find some value in the non-SM factions or they would not make them.

Perhaps the game would become too samey even for the core target market segment (12-15 year olds) if it was nothing but SMs.

It's not that I disagree that GW should use Space Marines as the product they market in a limited space area,indeed,just the opposite,SM are GWs flagship army,so it makes perfect sense.
What did confuse me however (unless I misread the articale),is that GW also wishes to include LOTR & WHFB in these limited space area sales,would it not make more sense to have SM & some SM enemies,rather than 3 different games?

Makes sense to put Space Marines out in stores that don't carry much Warhammer. Stick a pamphlet in the box saying where to get more, and maybe you pick up a few newbies.

Let's face it, they want target is adolescent males. I can't tell you how many under 15 males come into my store, run up to my 40k demo table and exclaim how cool the robot guys look (or pointing out how they "look like Halo"). There's also the video games, which when Dawn of War became popular, we had a lot of young guys commenting on that too.

It just makes sense to put that out to an audience that may otherwise never set foot in a hobby store.

Know what you're saying, but I never liked the Super-Human thing myself. Which is why I play Guard. And I'm pretty sure there'll be others like me.

What GW has forgotten in their rush to sell product, is that for SM to function as SM are supposed to ( i.e as per the fluff they generate) then said SM need an enemy to fight!

Without telling you guys how to suck eggs, promoting one aspect of the yin - yang relationship works with Hasbro and other toy companies, but in the wargaming industry, in order for your wargames to have any real "meaning" you need to promote both sides equally! The reason is simple, imagine a Games Day where every army is blue Space Marines?!?

Now its a bit of an exaggeration, but the way they market their product, its a real possibility. Of course GW doesn't want this happen, but wheres the incentive to play the other races? no updates for ages, if ever? no new models? and all the focus of the company on poxy Marines......

Other Miniature wargames companies have managed to generate interest and support for mutliple races, so why not the almighty GW.....

Other Miniature wargames companies have managed to generate interest and support for mutliple races, so why not the almighty GW.....

Turn it around. GW is doing something other companies can't/don't. The stores we are talking about don't have games in them. Now they have some. Ask the question "If GW can get games into non gaming stores, why can't other Miniature wargames companies?"

Kilkrazy wrote:That's why Choas Mariens were invented.

I have to assume that GW find some value in the non-SM factions or they would not make them.

Perhaps the game would become too samey even for the core target market segment (12-15 year olds) if it was nothing but SMs.

except that it more or less -is- the same. Why? because GW has no concept of army balance. Space Marines have generally been the best army, thus they sell more. and GW being the International C-ck-Up that they are, just make more Space Marines instead of balancing the other armies to be fun and competitive (not talking about tournament competitiveness, I know that SM don't have a gimmick one trick pony that allows any Howler Monkey "Hard Boy" to ROFLstomp someone and validate himself)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mikhaila wrote:Other Miniature wargames companies have managed to generate interest and support for multiple races, so why not the almighty GW.....

Turn it around. GW is doing something other companies can't/don't. The stores we are talking about don't have games in them. Now they have some. Ask the question "If GW can get games into non gaming stores, why can't other Miniature wargames companies?"

it may have something to do with other miniature companies not having or caring to throw away how ever much money this idea is going to cost.

Though to be fair, You can buy D&D Miniatures and Barnes and Nobles, and they are not a game store.

How is GW throwing any money away? The store buys the stock from GW, then they have to sell it. GW already got their cash.

The store assumes all the potential risk.

I assume it is similar to how a convenience store stocks its beer cooler.
In my area, Miller, Bud, and Coors are about equally represented.
Most also carry Mike's Hard Lemonade. Some carry stuff like Sam Adams. Others will even have the seasonal microbrews.
If it doesn't sell in enough amounts, they don't restock it.
But they will always carry the most popular lines.

Space Marines are the Miller, Bud Light, or Coors.
Everything else is closer to Leinenkugels's Oktoberfest. (Wisconsin Microbrew)

I think Mikhaila has the right of it. We as wargamers tend to forget just how tiny and specialized our hobby is. Even video games are only relevant to a very small chunk of the buying public, and only recently (10-15 years) have they been even a reasonably well known part.

Now, one can debate whether or not making wargaming more main stream is necessarily good (I am not certain it was for video games) but the fact the a small, non-gaming store, or hell, even a Gamestop, is carrying 40k merchandise is a sign of GW's success is drawing people into the fold.

Personally, I long for the day when my local Walmart carries a full range of GW products at 40% off current retail.

it may have something to do with other miniature companies not having or caring to throw away how ever much money this idea is going to cost.

No idea how the manufacturing>distribution>retail chain works, huh?

GW sells stuff to stores. Stores give GW money. GW makes a profit selling to stores. It's not returnable merchandise.

Forget the advertising GW gets by having their product in those stores. Forget that they may get some longterm customers if those people buying SM find a GW store, or other game store.

Every little stack of space marines in any store makes them money, regardless of what else the store sells.

But the fact is that the Space Marines are selling because they are there. The same could be said for a box of Necrons, or Tyranids. The argument seems to be if you sell it they will buy it. GW sells allot of Space Marines therefore people buy allot of Space Marines. If GW sold allot of Necrons, I would buy allot of Necrons. As long as they continue to not sell Necrons(at least nothing I don't already own and multiples) they aren't getting any money from me. Support your products, support your players and both of them will support you.

NecronLord3 wrote:But the fact is that the Space Marines are selling because they are there. The same could be said for a box of Necrons, or Tyranids. The argument seems to be if you sell it they will buy it. GW sells allot of Space Marines therefore people buy allot of Space Marines. If GW sold allot of Necrons, I would buy allot of Necrons. As long as they continue to not sell Necrons(at least nothing I don't already own and multiples) they aren't getting any money from me. Support your products, support your players and both of them will support you.

Selling you necrons has nothing to do with GW putting space marines and basic, best selling kits into non-traditional outlets. While I understand that each person sort of sees themselves as the center of the universe, trust me on this: They really didn't take into account that you might want to buy new necron models in all those little shops they are sticking space marines into. Didn't even cross their minds.

Back on topic:
If they tried to jam all their models into these stores, they'd be told to shove off.
By putting in some, and seeing if they sell well, those stores might eventually expand the lines and sell more.
If they don't, they are recruiting centers for new players.

GW making more money lets them do more things with other races. GW making less money means they stick more with the formula, and sell space marines. People blast GW all the time for bad business moves. Sadly, this isn't one of them. It will expand their markets and get them free advertising.

GW would easily make "more money" if they treated each army fairly and with the same amount of attention. Non-SM players easily outnumber SM players 2:1. Just imagine the revenue they would receive if they actually supported that 2:1 ratio with actual product. There is a reason GW has developed the reputation they have on this subject.

Howlingmoon wrote:
Though to be fair, You can buy D&D Miniatures and Barnes and Nobles, and they are not a game store.

You used to be able to buy Khorne Bezerkers at my Barnes & Noble, although that was before I knew what 40k was by years.

NecronLord3 wrote:GW would easily make "more money" if they treated each army fairly and with the same amount of attention. Non-SM players easily outnumber SM players 2:1. Just imagine the revenue they would receive if they actually supported that 2:1 ratio with actual product. There is a reason GW has developed the reputation they have on this subject.

Necrons...unappreciated...got it. Steal has nothing to do with the original topic.