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Kilkrazy wrote:The other bit of support for the Eldar connection is that in the first Tau Codex there is a top Eldar saying he likes the Tau and feels a kindred feeling with them. I don't think that bit was put into the Tau Empire codex.

There are hints that Tau have a psychic warp presence but it is highly focussed and beam-like, so warp entities find it very hard to discover.

Alternatively a kindred feeling could stem from them both being children of the old ones...

Aren't practically all the intelligent species in the galaxy children of the old ones, directly or indirectly?

Except for Nids.

Doombot001 wrote:

metallifan wrote:They're hardly destablilizing though. The Tau Empire is so small that most Imperial maps don't even show it. If the Imperium attacks the Tau, as was the case in the Damocles Crusade, it's because the Tau had the gall to try and conquer several Imperial worlds.

True that the Eldar hardly consider the Tau worth negotiating with (Then again they think that about everyone, even other Eldar Craftworlds). The Eldar are more likely to manipulate the Tau which, as another user stated, is likely the reason Tau have that gland in their foreheads. That feature is something they share with other races that the Eldar commonly employ as cats paws.

I think judging by the amount of tomb worlds surrounding the Tau Empire, as well as the number of Hive Fleet tendrils in the surrounding area, the Eldar use the Tau as a bulwark against the Necrons and Tyranids, and a means to strike quickly at any threat from either without losing 'more valuable' Eldar lives

Bingo! This is exactly what I was trying to say. Eldar using the Tau as pawns for their own ends.

Yes but eldar attempt and succeed at using EVERYONE as pawns for their own ends, save the necrons and tyranids, but even with the tyranids that is beginning to change. The eldar are trying atleast to divert the hive fleets. The reason that Tau destabilize the area is not because of their strength, but because of the doubt they are shedding on the almighty imperium. its funny how quickly those out of range of most of the imperium crusaders easily find reason to trade and converse with a race trying to be peaceful.

The stupid imperium is take no comers, and though people claim they could crush the tau in an instant, they are DEAD wrong. The imperium right now is fighting 7 fronts, orks alone are a handful considering they outnumber humanity like 8 to 1, and good-ol-gazzy is gathering more and more to his waaagh! Then tyranids come about and the first hivefleet, or be it known hivefleet managed to COMPLETELY wipe out the Space smurfs 1st company, and each new hivefleet is more than double the size of the previous. So no, the imperium cant crush the tau as would require way too many resources and they would get smashed in return.

I think that it is possible that the tau are either a fluke in nature, offsetting every other race thus far, or may actually be the only 'natural' race in the galaxy. Eldar and Orks created by the old ones, dark eldar former eldar, necrons are necrons, tyranids are from beyond the galactic rim, and its very possible that humanity was created by the necrontyr in order to have a vast race to feed on and enlsave when the necrons re-awoke, I mean just look at the physical similarities, and the fact that the void dragon probably dwells under mars, oh and that they worship machines and the necrontyr is now a machine race? Who knows maybe the speed that tau evolved at is what life in this galaxy is supposed to match, and the other races are more imperfect than the tau?

When the People say that the Imperium could Crush the Tau they are right, but because the Imperium has bigger threats and needs their resources else where, they have not bothered with the Tau. On a 1 on 1 the Imperuim would overwhelm the Tau and eradicate them.

They necrons were made to destroy all life, Humanity could not have been made by them. Earth was covered by a warp storm cutting it off from the rest of the galaxy until they were able to conquer the stars. And some place said that the old ones created man.

Hmmm, I should check my .pdf Codex collection for the old Tau one, that's very interesting. Sounds like Games Workshop is leaning towards the Eldar theory. I like the Eldar theory as well, personally.

And like I said earlier, the Necrons themselves would not have created mankind on account of them being tools, etc. etc., but the C'tan just might have influenced them. Just playing devil's advocate, though, I personally agree that the Old Ones created man.

I think if we talk about "natural" evolved races, there may be only the old ones and the necrontyr.

Now for genetic engineering its your best bet to look at the old ones.

-they did create several races
-they did have influence on the warp
-they desperatly fought and lost

So, those old ones have what it needs to create the Tau.

-capable of creating races
-having some control over the warp
-did use "lesser" beeings as cannonfodder against C'tan.

But they lost their gamble with the warp as a weapon. Would it be too far strechted to see them trying again with a different approach?
-eldar wont serve again
-orks wont serve
-humans wont serve

but Tau could have an inbreed agenda.
Does anyone really know what the greater good is?
Maybe the Tau believe its only a way to save them from civil war. I say that s not enough to explain why Tau should want others to join
this "greater good".

Evidence points to someone capable of genetic engineering and knowledge of the warp.
The Tau may not know it yet, but they will serve somehow,someday.

True, Very very True. But If you look at it in other ways, the outcome is different.

The Great Good, is the unification of all races to establish peace. But there is a hiarchy system and joining the Tau would put you as a second Class citizen. If I was a person of the Imperium I would not want this and would fight to my last breath to make sure it does not happen, much like the fictional Imperium is doing. To me it seems like the Great Good is a phrase used to justify the Tau as rulers in the Galaxy.

Now with the note that the Ethereals have a gland that produces a pheromone that is believed to give them a dominance over the other sub-Tau, each caste being a sub-Tau species, but together making the threat known as just Tau. I guess you could say the the Old ones are behind this, setting up a warp storm just in time to keep them alive, then in the middle of their crucible times, a new sub-Tau shoes up and has a charismatic charm that could not be denied. They popped up out of nowhere, so they could have been released but the Old Ones... But the old ones died out... that is the only flaw imo

I think in the codex it mentions some cone shaped head beings near mountian tops a few some type of time measurment right before the eathrals showed up.

Sanchez01 wrote:They necrons were made to destroy all life, Humanity could not have been made by them. Earth was covered by a warp storm cutting it off from the rest of the galaxy until they were able to conquer the stars. And some place said that the old ones created man.

Not wrong. But also not correect.

Terra was covered by a Warp Storm, until it was reconquered by the God-Emperor. You cannot reconquer human colonies, if Humans never left Eqrth pre 30k.

And on an off idea. If a Human fleet from the pinnacle of human tech would come out of the warp due to some freak reason, they could conquer most of the galaxy. Except that human fleets never went astray at that time ^^.

Eldar are supposed to have lost less tech than the humans, but both are about equal in weapon-techs. Makes you think.....

Eldar are supposed to have lost less tech than the humans, but both are about equal in weapon-techs. Makes you think.....

Oooh, I have never thought of it that way before... That's very interesting!

Note that nowhere does it say the old ones are extinct... its possible they are just very rare and those select few who still exist work behind the scenes of the major races.

Yeah, they're not extinct, I read somewhere that they have just 'retreated from the galaxy at large'. Supposedly they live quiet and toned-down lives on secluded and peaceful planets.

Yeah. We all know what happens to secluded and peaceful planets in 40k.

I've always gone with the theory that, if the C'Tan had their hands in the Tau creation cookie jar--it was to create a race that could counter the Tyranids.

I mean, think about it.
They don't use Warp travel as extensively as any other race, the lack of a Warp signature/Psykers means they'll be immune to the "Shadow in the Warp" effect that the Tyranid big beasties cause, driving Psykers and normals alike insane.
They adapt, quite well, to their circumstances, and seem more willing to preserve their people than to sacrifice entire regiments worth of resources to the Tyranids, which only makes 'em grow stronger.

But eh, it's just my pet theory.

Oh yeah, thank you for the corrections

On a slightly different note I have one theory that the most powerful remaining (but most now destroyed) old ones are actually the eldar 'gods'. I mean it is said that the laughing god imprisoned the outsider, wouldn't it it make sense that an old one imprisoning a c'tan? Also I have a theory that the ork 'gods' (gork and mork) are the same as two of the eldar gods (the laughing god and khaine)

i just finished reading that Xeno-whatsit fluff book. The Etherial caste have that Diamond pheremone crystal that this other bug species has. The bug species left records of when humans (chaos or not dno) attacked and invaded, but were beaten back with the help of Eldat allies. The Eldar afterwards wanted their queen as payment but when refused took her, killed some bugs and left.
Now fast forward to Tau, rapidly developing but coming to a standstill with extinction on the cards due to infighting war. Then wait.. TA da! the first ethereal pops up. Eldar putting into motion a long awaited part of a larger plan? Theres nothing but speculation as to the why.. but its fair evidence in the Xenology book that the Ethereals were Eldar created/manilpulated.

corpsesarefun wrote:Note that nowhere does it say the old ones are extinct... its possible they are just very rare and those select few who still exist work behind the scenes of the major races.

"Eventually, with the eruption of the Enslaver Plague on the galaxy, the Old Ones were broken and scattered, never to come to any power again and eventually die out altogether."

That was quote from Lexicanum that states it's source as Page 24 in the Necron Codex.

Sorry it took me so long to reply to that, I caught it by accident when I was browsing. Hope it shed some like on the topic.

Actually do Tau not also use the Warp for FTL travel?

In a ver ylimited way?

I remember from the first Tau codex, that thesy submerge a ship in the warp/water, and let it bubble up sideways. At least that was the analogy used in the dex.

Thats page 26.

But it is also : "eventually die out" so we cant be sure.

Couldnt confirm the quote since i didnt have 2 necron dexes.. mine tells me rather the might of the old ones is gone forever.

Wouldnt one single scientist of the old ones be enough to manipulate the tau ?

That could be possible 1hadhq, But if Lexicanum is right, then the old ones are not behind it... that being if we take the literal sense of it... but I do not own a Necron codex so I cannot see what it says personally.. as for page 26? idk... the website just says its source is page 24.


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Voronesh... uhh.. last time I looked into it they skim the border of the warp to keep from entering it fully.

Ahh so it worked that way, but there was some involvement.

Now is the Empyrean necessary or just optional? Thats a big question.

Now is the Empyrean necessary or just optional? Thats a big question.

That is a big question. I think that the answer is that the Empyrean is indeed necessary, at least in 40k. The technology of the Warhammer 40,000 universe is very very central to the Warp, with the possible exception of the Necrons. I can't remember how they achieve their FTL. The Warp is also necessary to give Psykers something to draw power from, and without the Psykers, most ships would be completely lost in space, as the Astronomicon would no longer shine, and no astropath would be around to pick up its signal anyway. The Forces of Chaos also use very similar methods of mapping out courses among the stars. I don't know for sure if Orkish Weirdboyz guide Waaagh!s around space or not. I don't think the Orks care where they're going, as long as they fight once they get there. And Eldar, of course, just use the Webway.

Shelegelah wrote:

Now is the Empyrean necessary or just optional? Thats a big question.

That is a big question. I think that the answer is that the Empyrean is indeed necessary, at least in 40k. The technology of the Warhammer 40,000 universe is very very central to the Warp, with the possible exception of the Necrons. I can't remember how they achieve their FTL. The Warp is also necessary to give Psykers something to draw power from, and without the Psykers, most ships would be completely lost in space, as the Astronomicon would no longer shine, and no astropath would be around to pick up its signal anyway. The Forces of Chaos also use very similar methods of mapping out courses among the stars. I don't know for sure if Orkish Weirdboyz guide Waaagh!s around space or not. I don't think the Orks care where they're going, as long as they fight once they get there. And Eldar, of course, just use the Webway.

Without the warp chaos couldnt know navigate eh?

you know if the warp didnt exist i can see a bit of a bigger problem for chaos

Ha! Wow that was a super brain fart for me! Thanks for pointing that out.

Sanchez01 wrote:Well to play the devils advocate if you want...

The Necrons hate the Warp. Why? I do not know, others may be better to enlighten us, but they do, and notably the Tau do not enter the warp, they cannot navigate the warp, and they cannot possess the warp. This basicly means they have no souls (yes, they are souless creatures, well they have no souls like humans and Eldar define souls) much like the Necrons.

A friend of mine and I were discussing the Necrons, and much of their agenda seems similar to the Reapers from the Mass Effect Game-they wait until the galaxy is full of life, propagating Chaos with it's thoughts and emotions, and then they awaken, culling the galaxy of much of its sentient life.

So balance is maintained, the Necrons go back to sleep, and life continues. Chaos is never able to reign completely. Maybe it is the C'Tan who are guardians against total Chaos, and the destruction of the material universe.

And on the subject of Tau FTL tech, it seems that they use warp 'hops' similar to the 'Jumps' in the Battlestar Galactica series, where they don't travel in some sort of hyperspace (The warp by any other name) for any period of time, but just jump close to the warp, going super luminal but never fully translating.

If maybe one of their client races were psychic, then they could perhaps utilize navigators.

Trevak Dal wrote:

Sanchez01 wrote:Well to play the devils advocate if you want...

The Necrons hate the Warp. Why? I do not know, others may be better to enlighten us, but they do, and notably the Tau do not enter the warp, they cannot navigate the warp, and they cannot possess the warp. This basicly means they have no souls (yes, they are souless creatures, well they have no souls like humans and Eldar define souls) much like the Necrons.

A friend of mine and I were discussing the Necrons, and much of their agenda seems similar to the Reapers from the Mass Effect Game-they wait until the galaxy is full of life, propagating Chaos with it's thoughts and emotions, and then they awaken, culling the galaxy of much of its sentient life.

So balance is maintained, the Necrons go back to sleep, and life continues. Chaos is never able to reign completely. Maybe it is the C'Tan who are guardians against total Chaos, and the destruction of the material universe.

And on the subject of Tau FTL tech, it seems that they use warp 'hops' similar to the 'Jumps' in the Battlestar Galactica series, where they don't travel in some sort of hyperspace (The warp by any other name) for any period of time, but just jump close to the warp, going super luminal but never fully translating.

If maybe one of their client races were psychic, then they could perhaps utilize navigators.

Threadomancy and necrons hate all life, the c'tan want to eat EVERY joule of energy in the universe.

They hold favour with mighty allah

...What?

What would the eldar or necrons need the tau for, as far as i can see they have never sided and have fought countless battles. Also if the eldar are manipulating the tau for their needs, this doesnt explain the tau's rapid evelution. I reckon these are all just coincidences and the tau are just a wild card race that hav beeen discovered and the rapid evalution? well the phrse "life but not as we know it" comes to mind.

I think the tau are either descendants of the Slann or were made by them. Seeing as the Slann have close connection to the old ones.
That and they both look anphibian, kinda like toads.