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Timmah wrote:So per Rustyknight:

Scout squads are made up of scouts (the word GW uses to describe units in Scout armor), scouts (the models) and scout sergeants.

I'm glad we agree Rusty.

Does GW routinely use Scouts to describe people in Scout armor? Not that I'm aware of (course, if they did, how would one determine if they called it a scout because it had scout armor or because it performed the role of a scout or because it was one who was scouting?). I know you're desperate, but that last post of yours seems kinda childish. "HAHA I twisted your words into agreeing with me! I win!"

In the scout armor entry, they are referred to as scouts.

I just find it funny how people change their opinions on things and twist words so that they can claim they are playing by RAW.

In the FRFSRF thread people claimed that terminators were a category and unit. Yet if I do the same thing with scouts, I get flamed again...


I would just like some consistency with rules answers personally.

Timmah wrote:In the scout armor entry, they are referred to as scouts.

Did you even look it up?

Codex: Space Marines wrote:Scout armour is formed of thick plates of carapce armor,
easily capable of stopping a bullet. Less cumbersome and
noisy than power armour, scout armour is ideal for the
subtle infiltration work that its wearers embark upon and
allows a greater freedom of motion. Models with Scout
armour recieve a 4+ armour save.

Timmah wrote:In the scout armor entry, they are referred to as scouts.

Not that I can find.

I just find it funny how people change their opinions on things and twist words so that they can claim they are playing by RAW.

Some day you will learn that you can distinguish two things. Two things can be alike in some ways, and different in others.

In the FRFSRF thread people claimed that terminators were a category and unit. Yet if I do the same thing with scouts, I get flamed again...

1) Models in TDA are referred to by both players and GW as terminators, regardless of unit entry or codex. A casual reference to Terminators most likely means "model in TDA armor." the same thing isn't true about the scout sgt.

2) When rules use specific, exact language, and the outcome makes sense, than the rule should be applied. Here the rules is specific and exact, and it makes sense.

I would just like some consistency with rules answers personally.

I think you're getting it.

I think the main point here has been bludgeo.....er.. .. "strongly emphasized" enough that there really is no question on whether you can or you can't. -- you can't.

You have to accept that certain models are limited to the upgrades and gear options specifically enumerated for them in their codex entries and that what's more, IN those entries, separate divisions of gear options must be both observed and recognized as having importance and relevance.

In the case in point-- why would they specifically list gear options for all models in the guise of "any model" if "scouts" meant the same thing.

You have to recognize a division here, the significance of such, and then move from there.

On the point of terminators and sweeping assault... I think there actually is a peculiar case to be made in specific RAW, but I wouldn't try it, and I don't have the codex in front of me to confirm my suspicions.

However, it goes as such-- and may be (most likely IS) entirely wrong.

IF the texts on sweeping says "Terminators" cannot SA as opposed to "models in Terminator armor", AND/OR The unit heading and models in the unit are listed as assault terminators as opposed to terminators-- per RAW they are exempt. Forget that though because I'm pretty sure the models themselves are simply listed as 'terminators'. Moving on, in any T-unit itself there is a model named Terminator Sergeant. Per RAW, it would seem there is a model in Tactical Dreadnought Armor who can still sweep-- after all he's not a "Terminator" exactly.

However, that's just plain crazy. If you let this fly you're saying I can start taking units of servitors for the Techmarine Gunners that come with TF Cannons, and other people can start doing wackiness also.

That's one can of worms I'm not going to open.

The "assault terminators are to terminators as scout sergeants are to scouts" argument does not hold water.

There is no separate statline for an "assault terminator," only for a "terminator". See Codex:SM pp. 136 and 144

There is, however, a separate statline for a "scout sergeant". See Codex:SM pp. 134 and 144. It is a different type of model, and it is referenced separately in the rules defining the wargear available to scout squads. See Codex:SM p. 134.

Scout sergeants are to scouts as hot shot lasguns are to lasguns is a better analogy (and I'm not even sure analogy is the right word here). In both cases, the two 'things' being compared have separate statlines, therefore they are not synonymous or interchangeable.

The argument that a "scout sergeant" is the same thing as a "scout" based upon context fails because the context simply does not support that conclusion. While the context does tell us that a scout sergeant is part of a unit of scouts, wears the same type of armor, etc., the context also includes the fact that they have distinct statlines and are referenced separately in their unit's wargear section.

For these reasons, I agree with Polonius that you are, in fact, getting consistency in your rules answers here.

-GK