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1. Mike Sirota's Bycling through Time and Space.

2. The first book in the Discworld Series

3. Ringworld

4. The 2nd Ringworld book (lol so unforgettable that I forgot the title)

5. The 3rd Ringworld book (see above 'lol')

6. The 4th Ringworld book (see above 'lol')

6. Fifteen Hours

7. The Once and Future King

8. The Grapes of Wrath

9. Death of a Salesman

10. Guilty Pleasures (Anita Blake)

11. Dead Witch Walking

12. Dark Journey (New Jedi Order)

13. Outbound Flight

14. The Phantom Menace (Star Wars... the novelization seemed hella more enjoyable than the movie)

15. Xenos (Eisenhorn... I believe this is the title of the first one... I liked the whole series but this one seemed so 'full')


...oh man, there is so much more... this makes me want to go through all the present books I have to see what I've read through... and as I type this I can't believe I didn't put down Starship Troopers haha

Unfortunately I can't add much that hasn't already been mentioned, but I'm bored and like writing about books, so I'll add my $.02*. And I'm quite aware that much of my list reads like a High School summer reading list. I don't friggin' care.

*MSRP, actual value may differ.

Not listed in order of rank, rather in order of when I think of them.

1. 1984, George Orwell. It took this book to open my young mind to the idea that the Government really does/can determine our way of life. And that could be a very bad thing.

2. Brave New World, Aldous Huxley. More of the above. Scary future is scary.

3. Descent of Angels, Mitchel Scanlon. The thread is "Books you'll not forget", but it doesn't specify WHY. I'll never forget this book due to how much it blows. And the balls on Scanlon to write dialogue for The Emperor, that just chaps my ass.

4. The Hobbit, Tolkien. LOTR is the obligatory, pretty much, but honestly I found The Hobbit more memorable. Maybe because I was very young when I first read it, maybe because it was the first book I read cover to cover in one sitting, or maybe because it's just not quite as dry as LOTR, but The Hobbit sticks with me like warm happy feeling.

5. Chronicles of Narnia, CS Lewis. One of the first series of books I read. And it got me through 4 years worth of book reports.

6. Cannery Row, John Steinbeck. Really, I should say ALL of Steinbeck's work. He's my absolute favorite author. But Cannery Row sticks in my head above all the others. Probably due to the camaraderie and preseverance of the characters.

7. We The Living, Ayn Rand. Another author where I'd like to mention just about all of their work, she's probably my second favorite author. But We The Living stood out above the rest of work due to the sheer grittiness and finality of it. I found it fittingly grim throughout, unlike her other works which, arguably, had a happy ending (or as happy an ending as anyone could expect). I found it both depressing as hell and life affirming, somewhat of a counterpoint to 1984. (I don't care if people think I'm pretentious!)

8. Walden, Thoreau. Living on a boat in relative seclusion at the time I first read this book, I found it vaguely mirrored my situation. I seemed to share a similar light-hearted yet sardonical view of the 'civilized' world as the author.

9. Jacqueline Carey. Everything she's penned that has been published I've found wonderful. The two Kushiel's Trilogies were exciting and intriguing like few other books I've read. And The Sundering Saga was a very interesting and moving look at the 'bad guys', and what unfortunate circumstances brought them to their state. The mirroring of LotR was exceptional, and painted a world that's maybe not so morally aboslute.

10. Sandy Mitchell. Not at all 'high-literature' but listed because Ciaphas Cain is one of the very few literary characters I can honestly say that I love to death. Just such a fun personality.

11. Band of Brothers, Stephen Ambrose. The most fascinating account of any group of fighting men I've ever read.

12. The Prince, Niccolò Machiavelli. Memorable for one in that I found myself seeing the logic and sense in most of Machiavelli's ideas of leadership. More so, memorable because after reading it I realized that the term 'Machiavellian' is not only absurdly over-used, but also entirely inappropriate. At least, in my opinion. It just seems that the general belief system has been warped and exaggerated, or incorrectly interpreted. But that's just me.

13. All Quiet on the Western Front, Erich Remarque. First book to really bring home to me the true horror of war.

14. Fahrenheit 451, Ray Bradbury. As a self-proclaimed bibliophile and bookworm, this book scared the CRAP out of me. Maybe one of the scariest books I've ever read.

15. The Old Man and the Sea, Hemingway. I really related to the excellent portrayl of the sea as a generous provider of life, while at the same time being a cold, fierce, uncaring creature. Both giving and taking in one action.

Honorable Mention:
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, Robert M. Pirsig. For being the most memorable book I've never actually read (at least not fully). Mostly because my father is constantly quoting it and telling me to read it.

I'd have to read 15 books first

Kidding, but a few that have stuck with me through the years:

Chronicles of Narnia: The Voyage of the Dawn Treader - The entire series was great, but this one was my absolute favorite and have probably read it about 5 times throughout my youth. Silver Chair gets an honorable mention as well.

Fahrenheit 451 - Read as a class assignment, but I loved it. Read it a couple more times since.

Homer's Oddyssey - A classic and a great book.

The first three Harry potter books - Were good. I didn't care for the rest really. Yea...I had potter fever for awhile.

I don't read a lot of fiction, but I'll see what I can recall.

1. Diplomacy - Kissinger (Diplomatic history through the eyes of one of the best)

2. A History of God - Armstrong (Diplomacy for God)

3. Principia Mathematica - Russel, Whitehead (cemented my belief that Greggory House is a dramatization of Russel)

4. Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus - Wittgenstein (excellent illustration of the limits of logic in the course of argument)

5. Kitab hikmat al-ishraq - Suhrawardi (first historic mention of a concept akin to 'necessary, and sufficient')

6. A Treatise of Human Nature - Hume (Probably the most important book in the history of Western philosophy)

7. Critique of Pure Reason - Kant (I have nightmares about this one)

8. Fountainhead - Rand (This book should not be cast aside lightly, it should be thrown with great force)

9. The Communist Manifesto - Marx, Engels (pretty much what Sebster said)

10. Dune - Herbert (It is pretty much the greatest sci-fi novel ever written. Just don't mention the rest of the series. Accept God-Emperor.)

11. New Wars - Munkler (The military fallout in the wake of the Cold War)

12. Power: A New Social Analysis - Russel (Libertarian Lenin)

13. Utilitarianism - John Stuart Mill

14. The Qu'ran - Muhammad

15. The Bible - Various

1. Once a Hero- Elizabeth Moon
2. American Gods- Neil Gaiman
3. Outlander- Edith Patou
4. Don Quixote- Miguel Cervantes
5. Frankenstein- Mary Shelley
6. The Odyssey- Homer
7. The Marriage of Heaven and Hell- William Blake
8. Nuklear Age- Brian Clevinger
9. East- Edith Patou
Repeats, but still excellent works
10. Grendel- Jon Gardner
11. Lord of the Rings- Tolkein
12. Dune
13. Mere Christianity
14. The Ciaphas Cain Novels
15. 1984

I think you need to come to Ayn Rand from the right mindset to get into her. I read the Fountainhead for that essay contest in high school, and as a mildly disaffected upper middle class over achiever i took to it like cancer on a prostate. She's got some scary ideas, and like most philosophies the logical progression ends up horrifying, but for me and for a lot of people, it was nice to read something that seemed to tell me that it was ok to be a proud, and it was ok to not feel bad for wanting to do things for yourself. Age has greatly tempered my zeal, of course. Nobody is also going to call her the most gifted story teller. There are ridiculous plot points in both Fountainhead and Atlas shrugged, and the characters are two dimensional at best (with a small handful of exceptions like Gail Wynand and Hank Rearden). What Rand is good at is capturing a mood and a tone. While Atlas Shrugged badly needs an edit, the mood of creeping horror as civilization crumbles is pretty evocative.

So, yeah, I didn't intend to be a massive apologist for Rand, but it turned out that way.

Polonius wrote:I think you need to come to Ayn Rand from the right mindset to get into her. I read the Fountainhead for that essay contest in high school, and as a mildly disaffected upper middle class over achiever i took to it like cancer on a prostate.

That's actually a goog point. Though I think it may be true of any controversial text. When I first read the Fountainhead (for the same essay contest) I was a bitter, underachieving teenager, so it had essentially the opposite affect on me. Combine that with the wooden nature of the text (especially for something billed as a novel) and it isn't particularly surprising that I would hate it.

1- The Last Book In the Universe
2- The Island of Dr. Moreu
3-One Fish, Two Fish, Red Fish, Blue Fish
4-Rainbow Six
5- The Prince
6-Utopia
7-Desperation
8-The Saint
9-15 Hours
10- Red Rabbit
11- The Hunt for Red October
12- Atlas Shrugged
13- Farenheit 451
14- Bridge over the River Kwai
15-Skeleton Crew

dogma wrote:

Polonius wrote:I think you need to come to Ayn Rand from the right mindset to get into her. I read the Fountainhead for that essay contest in high school, and as a mildly disaffected upper middle class over achiever i took to it like cancer on a prostate.

That's actually a goog point. Though I think it may be true of any controversial text. When I first read the Fountainhead (for the same essay contest) I was a bitter, underachieving teenager, so it had essentially the opposite affect on me. Combine that with the wooden nature of the text (especially for something billed as a novel) and it isn't particularly surprising that I would hate it.

Atlas Shrugged is even tougher. The tirades and rants by characters are longer (one stretches for over 50 pages), but there's also more of a story being told. It has a few really rewarding moments as well.

the thing with the Fountainhead is that of the five main characters (Roark, the girl, keating, wynand, and toohe) only one was written as anything approaching a human being. Roark is the platonic ideal of man, The girl is an idealized mary sue, Keating was written to have no personality, toohey is simply name wrapped around everything Rand hated, and only Wynand was written with nuance. He was the man that tried and failed to face down evil.

Fifty wrote:

JEB_Stuart wrote:
4. The Civil Wars - Caesar. While I am not a devote of Julius Caesar, the man's brilliance cannot be understated. His account of the Roman Civil War is stunning.

I'll have a look at this

The man is incredible in his writings. You really should take a look at this and his history of the Gallic Wars. My suggestions on other Roman authors would be Cicero's letter to Atticus and various friends. Also his books on oration and philosophy. All are just amazing. Another good read would be the Greek and Roman Lives by Plutarch. The life of Pompey is especially wonderful, despite its tragic end.

Fifty wrote:

JEB_Stuart wrote:5. The Twilight of the Idols - Friedrich Nietzsche. This man's half-mad writings are the work of genius. I am a firm believer that if Christianity is wrong, Nietzsche is definitely right.

I am a firm believer that Christianity is wrong. I wonder if Nietzsche is right?

I have heard many good arguments for atheism, deism etc., but I have never felt them to be adequate enough. Nietzsche has come the closest to this, but I still find his arguments lacking. It is ironic that I find Nietzsche's work to be just amazing whereas most Christians abhor him and avoid him like the plague. Those types of Christians scare me....

Fifty wrote:

JEB_Stuart wrote:12. JEB Stuart - Burke Davis. A phenomenal biography on one of the most brilliant tacticians of all time. My name should repeat how big an effect this book had on me.

Who?!

JEB Stuart was a Confederate Cavalry commander in the Civil War. He is widely considered to be one of the most brilliant cavalry commanders of all time. Sadly, he died shortly before war's end. I am continually amazed at the epic figures that are hidden away in American history.

Fifty wrote:

JEB_Stuart wrote:14. History of the Kings of Britain - Geoffrey of Monmouth. Monmouth's beautiful depiction of Britain's history continues to inspire me, a must read for any history buffs. Even though this book is very fantasized, it is still very enjoyable.
15. A History of the English Speaking Peoples - Winston Churchill. Wonderful all the way around. Churchill's realization that myth and legend are just as important for some histories as fact is truly amazing.

I have not read any British history for a LONG time. Weird.

You should. Both of these books are great.
I know that I already put up my 15 books, but here are a few more that I saw in my library, and I just had to share them with everyone. These are also in no particular order.
Confessions - St Augustine
Summa Theologica - St Thomas Aquinas
Fear and Trembling - Soren Kirkegaard
Either Or - Soren Kirkegaard
Histories - Herodotus
The 12 Caesars - Seutonius
Pensees - Blaise Pascal
The Silmarillion - JRRT
Orthodoxy - GK Chesterton
Leviathan - Thomas Hobbes
Thus Spoke Zarathustra - Nietzsche
The Anti-Christ - Nietzsche
The Great Divorce - CS Lewis
The Chronicles of Narnia - CS Lewis
Burmese Days - George Orwell
The Whimsical Christian - Dorothy Sayers

Thats all I have for now. Sadly, this is only a small portion of my library, most of it is still in storage

Wolfsbane - one of the few scifi books that I misspent my youth on that continues to have an impact on me. I don't know why.

Neutron Star (short story collection). My introduction to "hard" space opera sf as well as the joy of short stories - Niven remains one of my favorite authors.

American Gods - this book singlehandedly got me interested in reading current authors that weren't Pratchett again.

AD&D Player's Handbook. All my life I'd read these wonderful stories about people having these adventures. Now I could have them myself. My life has never been the same.

LotR - this made me realise that however other people might wax lyirical about something, that didn't mean I would love it as much, either. Don't get me wrong, I like LotR. It just didn't come as a revelation to me like it did to apparently everbody else.

Various Myths & Legends: Hey, look! People now long dead looked up at the stars, wondered, and dreamed, too! I'm not as alone as I thought!

Anything by Pratchett - despite slightly formulaic writing, in every single one of his books you go, at one time or another: Hey. He's got a point. How does he do that?

The Sandman - rekindled my interest in comics, if of a slightly different bend from the ones I'd enjoyed when I was a teenager.

Bone - Made me realise that characters alone *can* be enough to drive a story. Plus, I doubt anyone who's read it hasn't fallen in love with Thorn at least a little - that's how real the characters are.

More as I think of them.

In no particular order...

1. The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress by Robert A. Heinlein - TANSTAAFL! Revolt and revolution on Luna from Terra! Awesome to the max!
2. Neverwhere by Neil Giaman - Wonderful dreamscapelike storytelling that only Giaman can do. Alice In Wonderland but dirty and takes place below London in the sewers and more!
3. The Beast by A. E. Van Vogt - Very trippy novel. Man finds space engine. Colossal conspiracy begins!
4. Rant by Chuck Palahniuk - An oral history of Rant Casey and how he gave everyone rabies!
5. Any and all Sherlock Holmes by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle - Do I have to say anything? Its all really quite singular my dear Watson...
5. The Art Of War by Sun Tzu - This books was written before Christ was born and it is still extremely relevant and useful. I have read this book many a time.
6. Paradise Lost by John Milton - Beautiful words about the fall of Satan to the abyss. A universal hubbub gone wild.
7. Flow My Tears The Policeman Said by Philip K. Dick - One day a man is a famous T.V. figure known by millions the next completely forgotten!
8. Prometheus Rising by Robert Anton Wilson - This books tries to explain how your brain works and is filled with exercises that really opens your mind.
9. Still-Life With Woodpecker by Tom Robbins - A love story that sometimes takes place on the cover of a pack of Camel Cigarettes.
10. Gun With Occasional Music by Jonathan Lethem - A detective in the future where asking questions is illegal unless you have a license to do so!
11. Kill Two Birds And Get Stoned by Kinky Friedman - A story about a man trying to write the great Armenian novel who meets two people who change his life.
12. One Hundred Years Of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez - One the most beautiful stories ever written in my humble opinion. Just read it.
13. I Am Legend by Richard Matheson - I have often fantasized about drowning myself in whiskey and killing zombies and this book has it!
14. Illium and Olympos by Dan Simmons - Why is the Trogan War being fought on Mars? Why do the gods use technology? Who is left on Earth? The Tempest? Setbos?
15. Geek Love by Katherine Dunn - Circus folk who uses drugs and poison to make more interesting freaks until one of them starts a cult...

JEB_Stuart wrote:
Thus Spoke Zarathustra - Nietzsche

Ah, that's a good one. Probably the best example of Neitzche's tendency to advocate everything he was not.

I have a copy of Atlas Shrugged and a many dented wall where it was thrown, often and with great force. It would have slotted nicely into the 'so bad it's funny' category, but Rand was so antagonistic to her supposed enemies that it just ended up infuriatingly stupid. Sorry to anyone if it feels like I'm ragging on a favourite book of their's, but damn I'm still angry about that book.

One Hundred Years of Solitude. I always start it loving it, and I never can bring myself to get further
than 50 pages. I love the writing so much that it gets in the way of understanding what's
going on.

JEB_Stuart wrote:

Fifty wrote:

JEB_Stuart wrote:
4. The Civil Wars - Caesar. While I am not a devote of Julius Caesar, the man's brilliance cannot be understated. His account of the Roman Civil War is stunning.

I'll have a look at this

The man is incredible in his writings. You really should take a look at this and his history of the Gallic Wars. My suggestions on other Roman authors would be Cicero's letter to Atticus and various friends. Also his books on oration and philosophy. All are just amazing. Another good read would be the Greek and Roman Lives by Plutarch. The life of Pompey is especially wonderful, despite its tragic end.

If you're going to read Cicero and Caesar's works than you must read Catallus's carmines. They have some humorous insight into the time; only he would write poems about sodomizing his critics, Cicero being an ass and telling Caesar to shove it.

sebster wrote:I have a copy of Atlas Shrugged and a many dented wall where it was thrown, often and with great force.

O Lord in Heaven, this is hilarious! Definitely Sigging.

JEB_Stuart wrote:I have heard many good arguments for atheism, deism etc., but I have never felt them to be adequate enough. Nietzsche has come the closest to this, but I still find his arguments lacking. It is ironic that I find Nietzsche's work to be just amazing whereas most Christians abhor him and avoid him like the plague. Those types of Christians scare me....

Nietzsche's take on religion is interesting in that it reads almost like a lament for the wool which was pulled from society's eyes by recent history and secular philosophy. It appeals to many Atheists because the phrase 'God is Dead' can be interpreted quite aggressively, but that phrase doesn't really represent a proclamation of pride or victory. Its a pronouncement that Nietzsche seems to see as the herald of strife (in its most famous incarnation the words were uttered by a raving madman) through the destruction of objective reality which can only be overcome through the agency of the Ubermensch (a kind of 'chosen people' allegory).

Its all really quite amusing because, try as he might, Nietzsche ended up aping the popular religious doctrine of his day in the course of mourning its impotence.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Flachzange wrote:Im not gonna add any BL books. There are some good ones in there, but its not really top literature.

Dunno if this is about highbrow, I put the Dragonlance books in there and I refer to them as 'a book at bogtime', they aren't heavyweight in the slightest, just a simply written and easy to read tale constructed from a group's DnD experiences. Really loved reading them and have reread them twice, don't think the thread was about the booker prize winners...

So which BL books did you enjoy? I'm reading the first Guant's Ghosts omnibus atm and enjoying it, I'd like to know which books you thought were good.

Fair enough.

Even though a lot of people are not a big fan of the unkillable Tanith 1st, I have enjoyed every single book so far
Eisenhorn and Ravenor are pretty high up as well the old Inquisitors series by Ian Watson. I enjoyed most of the Horus Heresy books, except the first DA one, as well as the Word Bearers (Abyss) book. Storm of Iron is a fantastic read, so is Pawns of Chaos. Nagash was great and Malekith was a bit so-and-so.

Im not so big on the collected story books. I think theyre ok to pass some time but thats about it. Except that Last Church story in the Heresy collection book. That was great.

Id have to go through my shelf do check which of the others I really like lol Theres just too many BL books to really keep on top of them all. Ill see if I find any others I enjoyed a lot though.

I mostly read sci-fi/fantasy. Dont really recall why, but I guess it started when I moved to the states and couldnt speak a word of english. So I picked up some books and found the Star Wars books to be a rather easy read. Therefore, Ill add some of those as well.

X-Wing Series: Awesome. Simply because my favorite character of all-time is Wedge Antilles
Republic Commando Series: Great read, especially if you like Mando-style action.
Legacy of the Force Series: I still need to pick up the last two of the books, but I really enjoy it so far.

The New Jedi Order: I got a great deal on the bay and picked up the entire 21 book series for almost nothing, so Im working through that as well. Its okay so far, though Im not a big fan of the "unknown alien species takes over everything" concept. Ill see how that goes. The Darth Bane books were kinda cool as well.

Fate of the Jedi ... well, that one is kinda tough for me lol I find it to be too predictable and a tad boring when it comes to some of the individual plots. I am however really interested in the overall outcome of that particular series.

I liked the Rogue Squadron stuff, too, but stopped reading when they switched
(can't remember if they switched Authors or the entire Rogue Squadron, but
maybe it was both).

Just a couple as I am at work (and I have a terrible memory anyway, so there are probably a few that I will have forgotten even though I love them).

Day of the Triffids

Crysalids

The Mist (short story, OK film with a terrible "WE ARE AMERICA AND WE WIN" ending)

Z for Zacharia (sp)

Caves Of Steel 1&2

The first Nights Dawn book from the trilogy, and to some extent the 3rd one.

One of the Robot series of short stories with 3 robots visiting Jupiter, can't remember the title but it was fantastic. Either by IA, or ACC. I always get the two mixed up

The Night Watch (TP)

corpsesarefun wrote:I am quite disturbed nobody has mentioned George Orwell's animal farm... while very short its a classic

BrookM did. I actually agree. I am really not a big fan of 1984 at all, whereas I thin Animal FArm is both truer about the world we live in, truer about human nature, better written, scarier and generally just awesome.

1. Lord of the Rings by JRR Tolkien - arguably the Ur-Example of the traditional fantasy novel. If you haven't read it and profess to like "genre" fiction, read this now.

2. The Holy Bible (NKJV) - Even if you don't believe in Christianity, it's fascinating from a historical/mythological perspective especially the Old Testament

3. La Morte d'Arthur by Sir Thomas Mallory - The first printed English novel, and while the archaic language can be a bit of a slog, the story of King arthur and the tragic fall of a noble man is gripping.

4. Dune by Frank Herbert - A fascinating transposal of Muslim doctrine into a feudal SF world that dare's to address the question - "What if there is a Messiah, and he is wrong?" The sequels, prequels and adaptations fail utterly to measure up.

5. Lies My Teacher Told Me by James W. Loewen - I think the subtitle sums it up nicely -"Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong"

6. The God Particle by Leon Lederman - A great layman's approach to particle physics and quantum theory that's easily accessible, even if it is a little dated now (The epilogue talks about constructing a particle accelerator that got canceled, but is very similar to the LHC)

7. The entire Discworld series by Terry Pratchett. - Excellent comic fantasy.

8. DragonLance: The Annotated Chronicles by Margaret Weis & Tracy Hickman. The first book I read that proved gaming fiction could be good on it's own merits.

There's more, but I can't think right now. I'll edit the other 7 in later.

My list, in order they popped in my head.

1- The Great Bridge by David Mc Cullough - Any civil engineer or engineering student should read this book about the construction of the Brooklyn Bridge.

2- Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of Nimh by Robert C O'Brien - Read this in 6th grade and it fostered my love of sci-fi and fantasy

3- Lord of the Rings by Tolkien

4- Go Dogs Go by P.D. Eastman - Thanks mom

5- Eisenhorn by Dan Abnett - This makes the list because I have read and re-read this book 5 times and it is pure win.

6- The Iceman: Confessions of a Mafia Contract Killer by Philip Carlo - Disturbing portrait of a disturbed man

7- Under and Alone by William Queen - Infiltration of the Mongols Outlaw biker gang by an undercover ATF agent.

8- Jonathan Livingston Seagull by Richard Bach

9- Lord of the Flies by William Golding - Being a fat asthmatic kid while in high school, this book was scary.

10- Silas Marner by George Eliot

11- Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan - I never thought I would take pages of notes reading a series of books. I have at least 3 composition books full of stuff I wrote down while reading these.

12- King City by Brandon Graham - I generally hate manga, but something about King City just wins.

13- The Man Eaters of Tsavo - John Henry Patterson - Not sure how much is bragging and how much is fact, but still a good read.

14- Marine Sniper: 93 Confirmed Kills by Charles W. Henderson

15- Boots on the Ground by Dusk: My Tribute to Pat Tillman by Mary Tillman

poptarticus wrote:5- Eisenhorn by Dan Abnett - This makes the list because I have read and re-read this book 5 times and it is pure win.

Yeah I forgot that one. That is the best BL book I have read..... bar none.

GG

dogma wrote:

JEB_Stuart wrote:
Thus Spoke Zarathustra - Nietzsche

Ah, that's a good one. Probably the best example of Neitzche's tendency to advocate everything he was not.

It really is one of his best pieces. I am looking to move on to reading more of his letters and his book Beyond Good and Evil. I find Nietzche's criticisms and observations to be absolutely brilliant, some of which still apply today, it is his solutions that I have problems with. Either way, I cannot deny the man's brilliance, and therefore deserves my attention.

dogma wrote:

JEB_Stuart wrote:I have heard many good arguments for atheism, deism etc., but I have never felt them to be adequate enough. Nietzsche has come the closest to this, but I still find his arguments lacking. It is ironic that I find Nietzsche's work to be just amazing whereas most Christians abhor him and avoid him like the plague. Those types of Christians scare me....

Nietzsche's take on religion is interesting in that it reads almost like a lament for the wool which was pulled from society's eyes by recent history and secular philosophy. It appeals to many Atheists because the phrase 'God is Dead' can be interpreted quite aggressively, but that phrase doesn't really represent a proclamation of pride or victory. Its a pronouncement that Nietzsche seems to see as the herald of strife (in its most famous incarnation the words were uttered by a raving madman) through the destruction of objective reality which can only be overcome through the agency of the Ubermensch (a kind of 'chosen people' allegory).

Its all really quite amusing because, try as he might, Nietzsche ended up aping the popular religious doctrine of his day in the course of mourning its impotence.

As I said earlier Nietzsche's attempts to establish the existence, and more importantly the meaning, of humanity without the existence of God is the closest I have ever come to agreeing with the non-Orthodox stream of thought, but it is still lacking. It is strange how his paper's and books are aggressively interpreted as militantly atheistic and the like. Nietzsche was more concerned that the recent scientific and philosophical events of the 18th and 19th centuries killed the idea of God and therefore removed all sense of meaning for the various European societies. That is why he created the idea of the Übermensch, as you stated. Sadly enough, the theologians and church leaders of the 19th century were to rigid and dogmatic to be able to counter the arguments made by scientists and philosophers. On a side note, I would love to have seen how Kirkegaard and Nietzsche would have written if they lived at the same time. Their correspondence to each other would have been incredibly amazing.

Not in any order of preference, just the order I remembered them.

1. 1984, George Orwell. Prescient perhaps, in light of current politico-socio movements and the desires of governments to curtail what their people think (or at least see and read about).

2. Brave New World, Aldous Huxley. More of the above. Scary future is scary.

3. Foundation, Asimov. Star and generation spanning epic with hive worlds and politics.

4. Dune, Frank Herbert. As above (but planet wide deserts instead of hive cities - but prison worlds also).

5. Starship Troopers, Robert Heinlein. Needs no description.

6. Of mice and men, John Steinbeck.

7. Armor, John Steakley. Power armour and war. Felix is awesome.

8. Ranks of Bronze, David Drake. Roman legion in the service of alien overlords (as slave levies) who rebel, and decide to take the fight to them.

9. Art of War, Sun Tzu

10. Snorri Eddas, Snorri Sturlusson. Epic norse saga. Heroes that make Marneus Calgar look like a mischievous kid with a slingshot.

11. The Prince, Niccolo Macchiavelli. Helpful n dealing with my (former) corporate overlords.

12. Hammer's Slammers, David Drake. Future mercenaries whose skill is in winning wars - for the right price. Very little glorification of battle (you get the distinct impression that combat is not a good place to be).
13. Technopoly: The surrender of culture to technology, Neil Postman.

14. Fahrenheit 451, Ray Bradbury. As a self-proclaimed bibliophile and bookworm, this book scared the CRAP out of me. Maybe one of the scariest books I've ever read.

15. Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, Robert M. Pirsig.

In no particular order:
1- Vulcan 607, Rowland White. About the Vulcan raids in 1982 in the Falklands war
2- Dune, Frank Herbert
3- Stalingrad, Anthony Beevor. In depth account of the battle from both viewpoints.
4- LOTR, Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales. JRRT
5- The Dark Tower Series. Stephen King. Sort of a western but set in a post apcalyptic version of Earth with time travel (hard to explain series in short)
6- Bomber Boys. Patrick Bishop. Accounts from WWII RAF aircrew
7- Dunkirk. Hugh Sebag Montefiore. Detailed account from the British Army entering France to the retreat.
8- Making Money. Terry Pratchett. About a conman/thief who is put in charge of running the royal mint in Ankh Morpork
9- Guards Guards. Terry Pratchett about the inept night watch of above city battling a dragon.
10- Home Run, Escape from Nazi Europe. John Nichol & Tony Rennie. Stories of escapes back to GB and escape /resistance lines in Europe
11- Last Man Down. Richard Piccioto. About a firechief on 9/11 who becam trapped inside WTC
13-Orcs Stan Nicholls. About an orc warband that goes renegade from it's ruler.
14- SS General. Sven Hassel fictional account of a Tank units retreat from Stalingrad
15- Nightmares and Dreamscapes. Stephen King. Collection of short stories.

1. Lord of the Rings - J.R.R. Tolkien I would mention this fifteen times and drop all others from the list gladly, I will also miss out The Hobbit and Silmarilion by merging them in with this book. I had the pleasure of having this epic masterpiece read to me by my tweedy history teacher who in many ways resembled Tolkien. I remebmer pressing a copy of Two Towers into his hands in case he got the idea that he should discontinue. It helped that he had a first edition too, which included the extra half chapter missing in subsequent volumes. Yes, extra half chapter. I know some will ask, the extra content was in Rivendell, Gandalf and Elrond give a much more detailed account of the history of the ring. I can understand why it was dropped.

2. The Prince - Nicollo Machiavelli An eye opener into the nature of humanity, I remember machiavellis lessons well. while very much a textbook the underhand subject matter makes it extraordinary reading and yes it does have commentaries that work in daily life even for non-tyrants. I learned from Machiavelli's view on charity or more poiniently the ugly human raction to it.

3. The Histories - Herodotus Possibly the most important non-religious book written, and Herodotus blurs the lines on that too. Without Herodotus we have very little understanding of what went on in ancient history between the fall of Troy and the rise of Rome. Its filled with wonderful tales masterfully spun, yes the word is chosen deliberately. From Croesus of Lydia to Leonidas of Sparta it spans many lands gods and peoples, heros and oracles, trajedies and calls to wisdom. the true heart of the classics. Read it, or at least a good translation of it, its high culture in packaged easily digestible form.

4. New Testament in Modern English - J.B. Phillips I wasn't going to add the Bible, but I have to one way or another. Many attemtops have been made to reiterate the Bible, the most popular recent work The Message does not in my opinion do a good job, its dumbs down, which is not good. Phillips translation simplifies and makes radable prose but does not dumb down ther message and that makes it a superior version. I was lucky to find a copy.

5. The Alchemist - Paulo Coelho Beautifully written story of a yound Spanish boy who goes on a spiritual journey into the Sahara in search of lost treasure.

More later, maybe.

Orlanth wrote:

2. The Prince - Nicollo Machiavelli An eye opener into the nature of humanity, I remember machiavellis lessons well. while very much a textbook the underhand subject matter makes it extraordinary reading and yes it does have commentaries that work in daily life even for non-tyrants. I learned from Machiavelli's view on charity or more poiniently the ugly human raction to it.

3. The Histories - Herodotus Possibly the most important non-religious book written, and Herodotus blurs the lines on that too. Without Herodotus we have very little understanding of what went on in ancient history between the fall of Troy and the rise of Rome. Its filled with wonderful tales masterfully spun, yes the word is chosen deliberately. From Croesus of Lydia to Leonidas of Sparta it spans many lands gods and peoples, heros and oracles, trajedies and calls to wisdom. the true heart of the classics. Read it, or at least a good translation of it, its high culture in packaged easily digestible form.

Thank you Orlanth! How could I forget the Prince?!?! Also on Herodotus, I am inclined to agree with you. Since Herodotus practically invented what we call history, his book is priceless and should be a standard read in college if not high school.