Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Thank god someone said it, its a game and who wants to play against an opponent who just strikes from space and then goes off to the next fool who wants a fight.

+ and this is a BIG + nids are hard enough to beat when they are on the ground never mind up in the air.

But i will give you the point why bother with ground attack when you can cream the planet from the air/space.whatever.

Deathbot wrote:Since they plan to eat the planet anyway, wouldn't it be easier to just kill everything via orbital bombardment, thus averting the possibility of having the ground troops wiped out and being unable to eat the planet?

Just for the sake of being annoying and arguing semantics:

It could be said that Tyranids do conquer planets by orbital bombardments, if you look at their ground forces as weapons. That's what they are: Living munitions. Like any other spaceborne force in 40k, the Tyranids have to use a certain quantity of their available resources to subjugate a planet. Where the Imperium might used bombardment cannons and virus bombs, the Tyranids use mycetic spored full of ammunition that just happens to last a little longer than that of other species.

Just depends how you look at it, really.

So they are living bullets that firing living bullets.

Plus, even the dead material is consumed, so the failed waves return to the Hive Fleet, along with the dead enemy also. Nothing is wasted. They're like the 41st Milleniums Green Party :p

Of course the easy answer to this is 'why does any army bother invading, when they could just bludgeon the planet from orbit?'

While tyranids won't care about capturing space ports or infrastructure intact, you're assuming that they have super awesome powers that means they can obliterate the defenders completely, ignoring the fact that the defenders could have powerful energy shields, heavy fortifications that extend deep enough underground that even the heaviest barrage can't reach them, and be doing their best to counter act spores, et al.

Bookwrack wrote:Of course the easy answer to this is 'why does any army bother invading, when they could just bludgeon the planet from orbit?'

While tyranids won't care about capturing space ports or infrastructure intact, you're assuming that they have super awesome powers that means they can obliterate the defenders completely, ignoring the fact that the defenders could have powerful energy shields, heavy fortifications that extend deep enough underground that even the heaviest barrage can't reach them, and be doing their best to counter act spores, et al.

They Nids will just Eat the shields, Rock and Anti-Spore-Spores!

But they're going to have to stop the orbital bombardments and come down there to do it.

Bookwrack wrote:But they're going to have to stop the orbital bombardments and come down there to do it.

The Orbital Bonbaonbardlements are them going to eat it!

But it's really hard to eat something if the boss upstairs keeps dropping more guys on top of you at high velocity.

"Lord Commander! Sir!"

"What is it Adept?"

"Sir! It seems Hivefleet Candyland is preparing to bombard us! Should I notify emergency crews to enact standard sheltering procedures?"

"That's no typical bombardment Adept. That's a Bonbaonbardlement. There is no escape. There is no hope. The Candy will consume us all."

EDIT: Gwar!, you should go to that guy's site and post that picture XD

Deathbot wrote:Since they plan to eat the planet anyway, wouldn't it be easier to just kill everything via orbital bombardment(?!), thus averting the possibility of having the ground troops wiped out and being unable to eat the planet?

I think you answered your own question in there... It's about biomass, if you vaporize everything from orbit then it will be REALLY HARD to get that biomass out of the AIR.

Bessides, I think that deep down the Hive Mind likes having fun, just tearing up armies and such.

From the perspective of the Norn Queen, the swarm sent onto the planet is the aerial bombardment. Each ripper/gaunt/fex/warrior/etc. is a part of that bomb. This also allows them to test out the new DNA.

Gwar! wrote:So they are living bullets that firing living bullets.

Yo dawg. I heard you liked shooting, so I put living bullets in your living bullets, so you can shoot while you shoot.

On another topic, isn't it stated that Orks are the most numerous creatures in the 40k universe. Far more so than Tyranids (they are just so disorganized as to not be as big of a threat... until a big one comes along).

Fearspect wrote:

Gwar! wrote:So they are living bullets that firing living bullets.

Yo dawg. I heard you liked shooting, so I put living bullets in your living bullets, so you can shoot while you shoot.

On another topic, isn't it stated that Orks are the most numerous creatures in the 40k universe. Far more so than Tyranids (they are just so disorganized as to not be as big of a threat... until a big one comes along).

Yup, but thats only because Orks have been in the Galaxy for millions of years, while the nids are only a few thousand years in the Milky Way

Well, the orks are actually the main thing that's slowing down the Tyranid Hive Fleets. Just look at the Octavius Sector, an almost entirely ork-held region of space which has completely stopped a hive fleet from advancing until after the orks have been defeated. From what I can see of the fluff, the only real forces capable of holding off the nids on a single planet are Ork worlds and, perhaps, cadia (since it kicked abbadon back into his hole so many times before) However, the fear is that whoever wins in the Octavius system (orks or Nids) will emerge much stronger from the conflict and pose a great threat to the imperium.

(As an ork player, this is actually the theme of my army. My friend and I started together, tyranids and orks, so we immediately checked out the best place to set our battles. Carnifex armour plates protect my Battlewagons, and all of my lootas are equipped with weapon symbiotes. Burnas are essential as well, to eliminate the tyranid spores wherever they may be)

So am I the only one that has fielded more than 1k points of spore mines in apoc, then?

I sort of figured that the ground assaults were partially to learn about the opposition - tactics and such. Makes the rest of the fighting easier if we know what to expect or how the opponents can/will react.

Orkestra wrote:Well, the orks are actually the main thing that's slowing down the Tyranid Hive Fleets. Just look at the Octavius Sector, an almost entirely ork-held region of space which has completely stopped a hive fleet from advancing until after the orks have been defeated. From what I can see of the fluff, the only real forces capable of holding off the nids on a single planet are Ork worlds and, perhaps, cadia (since it kicked abbadon back into his hole so many times before) However, the fear is that whoever wins in the Octavius system (orks or Nids) will emerge much stronger from the conflict and pose a great threat to the imperium.

(As an ork player, this is actually the theme of my army. My friend and I started together, tyranids and orks, so we immediately checked out the best place to set our battles. Carnifex armour plates protect my Battlewagons, and all of my lootas are equipped with weapon symbiotes. Burnas are essential as well, to eliminate the tyranid spores wherever they may be)

Well were the Orks not engineered by the Eldar specifically to fight the Tyranids thanks to a Farseer's visions of the Tyranid invasion? Could explain something

And Cadia didn't beat Abbaddon because they're good soldiers (Even though they are) They beat him sheerly because he's clearly moron (13 Crusades and you STILL haven't made it out of the Cadian Gate!?)

Getting out of the gate has not been the goal of most of the black crusades.

The ground forces of the tyranid are it's eating mechanisms, if looked at from a wider angle, the frontal waves of attack creatures are it's incisors and canines cutting into the foe, it's endless swarms of lesser creatures are it's molars grinding down the food and then the digestion pools are the hive fleet's stomachs. It's like insects, eg flies, that empty digestive acids onto something and then syphon up the mass once it's already digested outside of the fly.

metallifan wrote:Well were the Orks not engineered by the Eldar specifically to fight the Tyranids thanks to a Farseer's visions of the Tyranid invasion?

D:
This made me sad and sad :(
Lrn2OldOnes and WarInHeaven

Well were the Orks not engineered by the Eldar specifically to fight the Tyranids thanks to a Farseer's visions of the Tyranid invasion? Could explain something

Ouch, me noggin 'urts.

Orks were created by the Old Ones to fight the c'tan and the Necrons. Waayyyy back in the day. This makes them approximately as ancient as the Eldar, though younger than the Necrons.

You know, the funny thing is I was half way through typing "Old Ones" when I had a brainfart and thought "No, Eldar... I think?"

...Maybe I should start bringing my stack of Codices to work

Deathbot wrote:Since they plan to eat the planet anyway, wouldn't it be easier to just kill everything via orbital bombardment, thus averting the possibility of having the ground troops wiped out and being unable to eat the planet?

You're missing the forest for the trees.
Tyranid Spore assaults ARE Nid orbital bombardment. All their items are organic. The gazillions of gaunts, stealers, lictors, etc are just a weapon to them, no different than torpedoes to Humies. They're firing organic torpedoes at the planet's surface. Then come of the bacteria sized nids, rippers, and other organic converters that collect the biomass and transport it to diogerters for digestion and shipment to the ships.

If there was no opposition, just biomass, they'd begin dropping the organic converters immediately.

EDIT: I see I am coming late to the Nids ARE weapons party. oh well.

with this whole net conservation of biomass thing, woulden't macragge be bueried in about five thousand feet of corpses? an entire hive fleet almost entirely destroyed on one planet has got to leave a LOT of leftovers, an entire sector or more of biomass piled in a gently steaming heap would leave maccragge the most lush planet in the galaxy, and a prime target for another hive fleet, almost doubling it's size.

starbomber109 wrote:

Deathbot wrote:Since they plan to eat the planet anyway, wouldn't it be easier to just kill everything via orbital bombardment(?!), thus averting the possibility of having the ground troops wiped out and being unable to eat the planet?

I think you answered your own question in there... It's about biomass, if you vaporize everything from orbit then it will be REALLY HARD to get that biomass out of the AIR.

Tyranids eat the atmosphere anyway.

sniperjolly wrote:with this whole net conservation of biomass thing, woulden't macragge be bueried in about five thousand feet of corpses? an entire hive fleet almost entirely destroyed on one planet has got to leave a LOT of leftovers, an entire sector or more of biomass piled in a gently steaming heap would leave maccragge the most lush planet in the galaxy, and a prime target for another hive fleet, almost doubling it's size.

Erm... You realize how long ago the Tyrannic Wars on Maccragge were, right?

Plus, they defeated a whole Hive Fleet. Not just a minor splinter of a few ships. I think sheer instinct would cause the Tyranids to avoid Maccragge for the time being. No doubt they'll come back for it, but the Hive Mind is at least capable of gauging defense capability or else they'd still be trying.

metallifan wrote:

sniperjolly wrote:with this whole net conservation of biomass thing, woulden't macragge be bueried in about five thousand feet of corpses? an entire hive fleet almost entirely destroyed on one planet has got to leave a LOT of leftovers, an entire sector or more of biomass piled in a gently steaming heap would leave maccragge the most lush planet in the galaxy, and a prime target for another hive fleet, almost doubling it's size.

Erm... You realize how long ago the Tyrannic Wars on Maccragge were, right?

So? Unless the Imperium moved the corpses off-planet before they rotted, all the biomass will still be there. Remember that matter is neither created nor destroyed, it merely changes forms.

Deathbot wrote:So? Unless the Imperium moved the corpses off-planet before they rotted, all the biomass will still be there. Remember that matter is neither created nor destroyed, it merely changes forms.

So you are saying that a Hive Fleet, one just like the one that got bitchslapped to next week, should go and attack them again? The Hive Mind may be Simple, but it isn't stupid.

True, but again, they defeated a whole fleet. If the Tyranids wanted the world that badly, then somewhere in that time gap, they would've tried again. But the Hivemind kind of went "Well, they killed a whole Hive Fleet and only lost one world... Maybe this was a bad idea..." so it's not likely another Hive fleet would try to invade it unless it had a clear advantage over the defenders (Specifically, if Sicarius, Tigerius and Calgar are all away and too far to make it back in time (Because those Spehssjerks can defeat anything)

EDIT: Gwar! beat me to it

Don't forget Elrad. You know he'd make both Maccrage and the Hive Fleet Invisible so they crash into each other.