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For HF i like the Horde termicide with 3 Terms, HF and 2 combiflamers.

Anything not 2+ armor saved is gunna get hurt.

I disagree with termicide being the only effective way of running terminators, or that there are no other ways to effectively run them. IMO termicide is effective but very one dimensional and dependent on the metagame agreeing with them. I regularly use a squad of 6-8, MoS, chainfist/HF, and combis as needed. Even if the squad runs 250-280, its still provides:
1) 2+ armor saves
2) combi-melta/chainfist death to vehicles
plus it has:
3)I5 powerweapons
4)Enough wounds to absorb a few casualties
5)A big footprint/threat level.

With intelligent placement this squad can do some serious damage. Not everyone has the time or forethought to sit around waiting for terminators to drop nor the ability to wipe them out in one turn - not without ignoring the rest of the enemy army. I think terminators (and esp chosen) need to be viewed as part of the overall army list.

I used to almost exclusively run 3 man units of termies, with a couple of combies, a heavy flamer and chainfist for flexibility. In 5th, KPs have inclined me to experiment with sizes from 4-6 (or all the way up to 8 or 10 at 2500pts in ‘ard Boyz). The more durable units still give me the drop-melta ability, but add a more durable HTH threat once they’ve landed, allowing me additional options for contesting objectives/killing troublesome units that my Oblits and rhino-borne squads are having trouble reaching or killing.

odorofdeath wrote:oblits are slower, more expensive and less flexible than oblits. For 150 points you get 2 oblits. For 150 points you also get 3-4 terms with combi-wepons and chainfists/hvy flamers/reapers/whatever. Terms can deal with tanks or infantry quickly without being exposed to enemy fire for 1-2 turns before they come in. although oblits can deepstrike also, terms are usually better suited to what they are going up against (meltas and chainfists for tanks, flamers and claws for infantry) and fare better in assault.

For 120 you could take a 3 man termincide squad with combi-meltas and a chain fist.

For 30 pts. more you could have 2 oblits with an extra wound, twin-linked meltas that fire every turn, or multi-meltas if you prefer. Plus nice anti-infantry power with twin-linked plasmaguns or plasma cannons. The oblits are eating up a heavy support slot which has better choices than the elites though.

I have not really tried running termicide squads myself but do see a use for them. I think more often than not they will do their job and destroy more of the enemy than they have costed you. I think oblits do the job better but take up a more precious heavy support slot.

I find that I turn to termies when I'm maxed out on heavy support choices and have 4 troop choices.

Which usually means a high point game, where icons will have good coverage, they will be useful at whatever they shoot at, and the extra kill points aren't a huge problem.

My 7 Cents.

Dogstar34 wrote:I regularly use a squad of 6-8, MoS, chainfist/HF, and combis as needed. Even if the squad runs 250-280, its still provides:
1) 2+ armor saves
2) combi-melta/chainfist death to vehicles
plus it has:
3)I5 powerweapons
4)Enough wounds to absorb a few casualties
5)A big footprint/threat level.

Here's why I disagree with you:

1) People have gotten used to dealing with Assault Terminators coming out of Crusaders. If you're used to dealing with 2+/3+ pouring out of the best assault platform in the game, then you're exponentially better at dealing with 2+/5+ that has to walk across the field.

2) Agree, but it has to be within 6" to be effective. Unless they're dropping in, they're not going to be within 6" unless it's on your opponent's terms.

3) Without assault grenades, they're I1 non-powerhouses. Even if you combimelta a rhino and explode it, if you want to charge into the debris you're going at I1. Chaos Terminators are a bully unit; they can kill off gakky H2Hers but run into a wall against dedicated assault units. Again this suggests keeping them cheap; 3-4 Chaos Terms will kill a squad of Guardsmen just as well as 6-8 Chaos Terms. 6-8 Chaos Terms will die horribly to AssTerms, Daemons, Nobs, and Seer Councils just like 3-4 Chaos Terms.

4) This is self-defeating. You need return commensurate with cost, which Chaos Terms don't really provide.

5) They're not, though. Points 1-3

With intelligent placement this squad can do some serious damage. Not everyone has the time or forethought to sit around waiting for terminators to drop nor the ability to wipe them out in one turn - not without ignoring the rest of the enemy army. I think terminators (and esp chosen) need to be viewed as part of the overall army list.

The bolded bit is particularly true, and I think it leans much further in favor of Termicide than not. Most competitive chaos lists (if not all) are going to be troop heavy, in transports, and will have a relatively short range due to assaults and limited melta platforms. Termicide works well in that context, foot slogging Terms don't.

I still DS when I used the bigger squad. It drops without scatter most of the time thanks to Icons, and it provides a sudden and significant reinforcement to that area of the field.

In situations where I have trouble reaching a given part of the field which I need to (most commonly Spearhead Secure & Control), I can DS them without a nearby icon, taking the risk of scatter to get a reasonably beefy unit into my opponent's backfield and threatening his objective, which I otherwise might not be able to do.

Sourclams, I do agree with some of what you said. For instance youre right that termicide is points effective for what they do, or that 2+/5+ walking isnt that big a threat. However, a DS terminator squad shouldnt have to walk across the field. I already have mobile, dedicated HTH squads and I dont hinge my battleplans on a Chaos terminator unit holding the center - thats not what theyre designed to do, imo.

Especially if Im bringing them in off a Chosen icon, I will set them on a flank as far downfield as possible. Ill make as much noise as possible with them and make them look as threatening as possible, pushing them onto my opponent's backfield and attacking his home edge objectives. DPs, PMs, oblits, and the CSM staples are already a high priority threat. Anything that makes my opponent take his eye off that ball and focus on killing the terminators is a good thing. Its tough to ignore, and alot of victories in 40k are based off your opponent making bad choices.

Im not saying Chaos terminators are the be-all, end-all, but its my assertion that they are also useful in ways that do not involve termicide.

Quite honestly, using them in the method you're describing sounds like Termicide-with-more-points; they're still a Deepstrike throwaway unit.

We can argue about what points-level constitutes Termicide or not Termicide, but the theme is fire and forget.

Played a tourney using two cheapened (!) termicide units yesterday, with only two combi meltas instead of 3 (didn't have the modeling capability and had to cut points from my already skinny list).

I was very satisfied with them, the first game I played they disabled a tooled up fire prism and destroyed a war walker squadron, then went on to annihilate the gak out of a guardian squad and kill a few howling banshees. The second game, vs a crimson fists player with 20 marine terminators, they managed to deep strike and cause a major distraction, and wreck a 5 man terminator squad with the meltas/power weapon combos.

Third game vs orks I deep struck them which I shouldn't really have since there was no armor in sight, and they were unreliable (we only played to turn 3, however).

Pretty satisfied with the performance overall in the first two games though, having icons for no scatter was very good.

Try out a H. Flamer in the squad it helps against horde armies.

Just finished a game running a 10-man termie squad with combi-weapons, some cc weapons, and icon of slaanesh.

Was charged by 5 SM terminators w/ Lysander. Killed 2, they killed 4. I rolled a 10, fell back 10, rolled 11 to regroup, fell back 8 more off the table.

No more big squads. If my squad is going to fail I want to invest only about 100 points in it. Granted each is only 1 kp in an annihilation mission, but I'd rather spend that 300 point difference on other useful things, and let the 100 point termicide squad attempt to do its one job, and not cost me dearly if it fails to do so. Without an option to make them fearless [I'd totally take a chaos lord if they had that ability], and being hamstrung into taking IOCG just to gain some sort of leadership survivability, big squads are just too much of a liability for those of us who can't pass a leadership test to save our lives [you should see my fantasy games!].

@Nurglitch

WHAT?!?!

Back in ye olden dayse of Orks are bollocks threads I bring up how you all use LOS wrong, and get no credit? Since Chaos Dreads were my specific example, and no-one believed me then, but since do, seems mighty harsh.

As for Termicide, only worth it above 1750 points. If even then.

No, it's not harsh, it's just that the world doesn't revolve around you. :-D

My 7 Cents.