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The Tau really need some decent line-of-sight blocking terrain on the field, I think.

Since forests became translucent there's been a lot less of that around.

And with that I certainly can't and won't disagree. I guess your point is that in order for it to be fun for all the dynamics and level of skill to play the different armies would have to be somewhat similar. Which, of course, is about as far from the truth as one could be.

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:And with that I certainly can't and won't disagree. I guess your point is that in order for it to be fun for all the dynamics and level of skill to play the different armies would have to be somewhat similar. Which, of course, is about as far from the truth as one could be.

No, I was simply saying that you'd be creating a unit similar to one that is renowned to be quite worthless....so beware of that!

Although it fits in with the Tyranid modus operandi: torso + weapon arms + locomotion, it just doesn't feel right. Stealers were my first nids, from the original Space Hulk, and I loved them for being scary fethers, tearing Termies up in the tight corridors of a drifting wreck...

Che-Vito wrote:

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:And with that I certainly can't and won't disagree. I guess your point is that in order for it to be fun for all the dynamics and level of skill to play the different armies would have to be somewhat similar. Which, of course, is about as far from the truth as one could be.

No, I was simply saying that you'd be creating a unit similar to one that is renowned to be quite worthless....so beware of that!

Well vespids are definitely worthless, I'll give you that. Winged stealers would be expensive and brittle but just imagine what they could do to tanks now that you strike against rear armour. A turn 2 assault (possibly) would do very well against a transport heavy army and really make someone think twice about rhino rushing. That and having them flank without having to buy scuttlers would really change up the dynamic of the game--at least for me it would.


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A Lictor... BLOR!!! wrote:Although it fits in with the Tyranid modus operandi: torso + weapon arms + locomotion, it just doesn't feel right. Stealers were my first nids, from the original Space Hulk, and I loved them for being scary fethers, tearing Termies up in the tight corridors of a drifting wreck...

That's a fair enough point, but let me ask you this: Do you feel the same way about winged warriors or winged tyrants? They both have legs, 2 sets of arms, and wings.

My winged Warriors/Tyrants don't have legs. "Upper" arms are wings, lower hold the guns/ST.

I've seen that done, and it looks really nice... But you still have 3 slots needed: 2 for weapons, 1 for wings, don't you? Current genestealers could do that, though you're right that it would look funky. I just like seeing wings popping out of the carapace for a more dragon-like appearance.

To be honest, As good of an idea as this sounds, Genestalers are way overpriced as it is, and they dont have the save, nor the necessary attacks that they should for such price.

Victimized Tyrant wrote:To be honest, As good of an idea as this sounds, Genestalers are way overpriced as it is, and they dont have the save, nor the necessary attacks that they should for such price.

That's why they're so rarely fielded as part of competitive armies...oh wait...

I want overwatch back so i can shoot them when they come on the board (JK)

wuestenfux wrote:

Stealers are screwed in the next codex unless someone competent writes it.

Why?
They can FoF, outflank, and can get a 4+ save.

All of which doesn't help them against cheap transports. 5th edition ended thier reign of terror.

Not quite, I've had a Broodlord squad wipe out rhino's and Devilfish, survive the hail of fire and wipe out the troops inside. They're not as rediculously powerful as they were in 4th but they are still dangerous.

thesuperiorninja wrote:Not quite, I've had a Broodlord squad wipe out rhino's and Devilfish, survive the hail of fire and wipe out the troops inside. They're not as rediculously powerful as they were in 4th but they are still dangerous.

Well of course. I have had an 8 man stealer squad go 2 ground and make 4 of its 6+ cover saves. But that is not stastically practical. Dice can be your friends at times, that is all. What I see repeated time and time again is the converse. The stealers assault the transport and IF they blow it up they end up getting whittled down to a few men who aren't strong enough to carry the assult during their turn. Untill Nids have a stastically viable method to destroy transports in thier shooting phase, 5th Ed MECH will continue to have the upper hand.

wyomingfox wrote:

thesuperiorninja wrote:Not quite, I've had a Broodlord squad wipe out rhino's and Devilfish, survive the hail of fire and wipe out the troops inside. They're not as rediculously powerful as they were in 4th but they are still dangerous.

Well of course. I have had an 8 man stealer squad go 2 ground and make 4 of its 6+ cover saves. But that is not stastically practical. Dice can be your friends at times, that is all. What I see repeated time and time again is the converse. The stealers assault the transport and IF they blow it up they end up getting whittled down to a few men who aren't strong enough to carry the assult during their turn. Untill Nids have a stastically viable method to destroy transports in thier shooting phase, 5th Ed MECH will continue to have the upper hand.

I look at tourney results, and Tyranids aren't doing poorly, by any means. That says enough for me.

wyomingfox wrote:

thesuperiorninja wrote:Not quite, I've had a Broodlord squad wipe out rhino's and Devilfish, survive the hail of fire and wipe out the troops inside. They're not as rediculously powerful as they were in 4th but they are still dangerous.

Well of course. I have had an 8 man stealer squad go 2 ground and make 4 of its 6+ cover saves. But that is not stastically practical. Dice can be your friends at times, that is all. What I see repeated time and time again is the converse. The stealers assault the transport and IF they blow it up they end up getting whittled down to a few men who aren't strong enough to carry the assult during their turn. Untill Nids have a stastically viable method to destroy transports in thier shooting phase, 5th Ed MECH will continue to have the upper hand.

The thing is you're taking that out of context and assuming there are NO other units to assist the Genestealers. If you've got your 'stealers wandering around by themselves with nothing else to support them then yes they are going down quick. The whole relevance of this thread is in the setting of a battle which (if you were smart) you'd have other units up there with you're stealers to take care of the troops that came out when they took out the transport. Also if you were rolling saves on a Genestealer who had gone to ground at 6+ you were cheating yourself anyways. An un-upgraded stealer that's gone to ground has a 4+ save.

thesuperiorninja wrote:The thing is you're taking that out of context and assuming there are NO other units to assist the Genestealers.

Well to be fair, those supporting Nid units have thier own problems to deal with like LRC, LRR, Dakka Preds, Dreads, DP Sternguard, and TH SS termies (which are supporting the tacticals in rhinos).

Also if you were rolling saves on a Genestealer who had gone to ground at 6+ you were cheating yourself anyways. An un-upgraded stealer that's gone to ground has a 4+ save.

I don't think I did . Yep, I was right, page 24 of the BRB . Units that go 2 ground gain + 1 on their existing cover save or if they are not in cover (out in the open because you assaulted a vehicle) get a 6+ cover save.

I have seen Nids do well against non-mech armies, but they seam to really struggle against a strong mech list. As such, I haven't heard or seen nids placing in our local tournement scene. IIRC, there was only a mere 2 nid players who got to the finals in Ard Boys (out of 60 possible slots) this year and that neither placed in the top 10. Lastly, I haven't seen any Game Day reports that have mentioned the nids placing high .

That said, my hopes are that 2010 will see a revamp of nids that allows them to compete against the mech rivals.

wyomingfox wrote:
I don't think I did . Yep, I was right, page 24 of the BRB . Units that go 2 ground gain + 1 on their existing cover save or if they are not in cover (out in the open because you assaulted a vehicle) get a 6+ cover save.

My bad on that one, i read "cover saves" and my brain said "armor saves"