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Love the Sig Rico....spot on lol

I am going to cover the costs for the prize support. If I can make this a successful then this can become an annual fund raiser. Then the over the year, hold regular tournaments in order to build up operating fund for the following year. That way as each annual event occurs then the prize support gets larger and able to accomodate more gamers so then their will be more money raised for the charity. There is a bike rally here doing the samething that has been going on for near 12 years. they started with 125 bikers, and then last year they had over 7000 bikers and raised over $600000 USD in one day.

So the first year alot of the cash needed to run it will come out of my own pocket but tmight be needed that is not a worry since my family and I are financially secure enough to absorb the cost and more if needed.

@Redbeard - sorry mate, 'twas the flag ( I should know better really!). Not offended at all, just seems a bit of a silly viewpoint to me. But of course you are entitled it, just as I'm entitled to question it... I wouldn't want you to think I was having a go matey.
I have a sneaking suspicion that you KNEW it would be controversial, though lol!

They did a charity 40k game here once where you could buy back units, buy rerolls, buy strategems, etc. The absolute best thing ever though was the ability to buy a 30-sec Hamsterball Vortex Grenade.

I voted yes, but with a caveat: I wouldnt do it to support the March of Dimes. I dont know enough about them. I got involved with a charity at work (incidentally, the charity was the MDA, you know, Jerry's Kids) where we had to raise money for them. At the time, I worked at a gas station, and posted a little sign indicating that i would dance on the counter for a 1$ donation. In a 2 month period I raised more than $1500 personally and took second place in the company...

The MDA is a crock. They turned around and hosted a giant party for political photo opps, rented out a huge park, etc etc. I was under the impression that I was raising money for kids to get medical attention, hearing aids, wheelchairs, etc. I felt cheated and angry. I dont support Jerry's kids anymore. And unless I knew that the charity was something legitimate, I wouldn't participate.

The March of Dimes is something I would have to look into. The Red Cross and the MDA are two that I would definitely turn down. I WOULD support either DAN (Defeat Autism Now) or the Shriners.

Over the years, our club has done a variety of charity events, from tourneys where you paid your entry fee with canned goods for a food bank (and could buy re-rolls with additional canned goods) to megabattles for Toys for Tots (over $3000 last year) to sponsoring one of our members in the Cancer run/walk 5K. We've donated, assembled and painted an army (Space Sharks Marines) that was sold on ebay for charity. So yeah, I'm all for events along these lines.

If we can mix our favourite hobby with a good cause then it gets a double from me!

With the overwhelming approval I have started working on the tournament. I discussed it with the owner of mr FLGS and he loves the idea. Between my prize support and his we will have over $500 USD for the winners. Sent an email off to GW Legal about the use of the image of a bolter for our adverstiment for the tournament, still no word but I think it most likely is not the highest priority item on their list. Players from my local area have already start to voice their extreme willingness to play in the tournament. I think that this tournament will be bigger than the FLGS owner first believes so I started to break down just the number of players in my gaming group and we can count on at least four to five and that is gamers from almost 60 miles away from the FLGS. So the FLGS owner is going to talk to the building owner and see if we can use the empty adjacent store for more tables if need be. So it is time for me to think about cobbling together generic terrain sort of like at Adepticon.

So, Bolters for Babies 2010 is a go. I will start a blog on the setting up of this tournament and post an article on dakka on how to set up your own charity tournament if this on is successful.
Thanks for all the ideas and C&C.

FOR THE EMPEROR! and Babies!

im assuming the tournament is close to Kansas City based on your location? Im from northern Oklahoma I could see if there is anyone around here that i game with that would be interested. will you have any flyers or anything?

Count me in. If we can get plenty of notice I will pass the word onto the Meta-games kids out of Springfield, MO and bring up da boys from Joplin. I've traveled to KC for tournaments. I would gladly do so again to support a great cause.

If the Bolters for Babies gets approved I say the sign should have a baby holding a Bolter (Tony Montana Style).

Waaaagh! Da Babies!

Its a long way to Tipperary Kansas, so I can't make it, but Good Luck!

There are some simple terrain pieces that can be made, so hopefully, you'll get enough.*
Maybe some of the entrants could be "encouraged" to supply some?
Bring terrain (maybe even get it back afterwards ... or maybe auctioned/sold in FLGSfor charity ?), get a discount on entry/coupon for FLGS/Entry into Prize Draw. Best Terrain Prize?

If you need any help that can be done via email/web, let me know.
Proof Reading, FAQ help, that kinda stuff.

*My current favourite simple terrain is a pill box made from a 25-blank-CD box. Cut a couple of slots, cover with Rough-Coat, paint brown, drybrush light brown/bone/white. Add details as needed. Job Done.
100-Blank-CD boxes are about the right size for bastions, with a bit of work.
Hills are easy.

barlio wrote:Count me in. If we can get plenty of notice I will pass the word onto the Meta-games kids out of Springfield, MO and bring up da boys from Joplin. I've traveled to KC for tournaments. I would gladly do so again to support a great cause.

Thanks, I am going to give plenty of notice for everyone, at least three months since the FLGS owner needs that much time to get it into WD. I am saying that it is going to be about 5 or so months that way we have all the tables, plenty of room and trust me we have a few hundred of dollars of prize support already and that will most likely go up. I am going to try and get goody bags for the players from the wargaming groups that will hopefully sponser us. Lots of little hurtles but it will be worth it.

Also I will have flyers and posters.

The thing is we are trying to figure out the game size. 1500, 1850 maybe even be teams. What do you all think?

Hey barlio my cousin Clinton (He has Necrons, SM and Britonians) plays down there at Meta-games. Tell him Michael says hello and of couse he is invited.




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BlackSpike wrote:Waaaagh! Da Babies!

Its a long way to Tipperary Kansas, so I can't make it, but Good Luck!

There are some simple terrain pieces that can be made, so hopefully, you'll get enough.*
Maybe some of the entrants could be "encouraged" to supply some?
Bring terrain (maybe even get it back afterwards ... or maybe auctioned/sold in FLGSfor charity ?), get a discount on entry/coupon for FLGS/Entry into Prize Draw. Best Terrain Prize?

If you need any help that can be done via email/web, let me know.
Proof Reading, FAQ help, that kinda stuff.

*My current favourite simple terrain is a pill box made from a 25-blank-CD box. Cut a couple of slots, cover with Rough-Coat, paint brown, drybrush light brown/bone/white. Add details as needed. Job Done.
100-Blank-CD boxes are about the right size for bastions, with a bit of work.
Hills are easy.

Youur terrain ideas are great and inexpensive. I have to put all my own hobby goals on hold and start to make terrain and boards like a marry little christmas elf on crank. I can forsee a dozen cuts and foam cutter burns later I will have alot of terrain. We found a few really cool boxes at a hobby store that turn into cool pill boxes. I also want to find a wholesale fish tank supplier so I can pick up bulk plastic plants since I have a few ideas.


Another Idea for the tournament is signing up and paying for the tournament via paypal. That way people from out of town can sign up and if they have to cancel then the money can just be transfered back to them without worrying about it getting lost in the mail or their not be enough spots open for them after travelling so far.

Playing for a good cause?

I'd love it.

I've run charity events before and played in some too.

Some of the best games I've ever had were at charity events.

The best one was a game where on one side we had the entire Dark Angels Chapter (in which the entire 3rd company and every single dreadnought was provided my me) go against an Imperial Guard army that had 52 leman russ tanks and over 3000 infantry.

The event raised something in the region of £2000 for a cancer charity.

Yep!
Having fun for charity, that's original!

Pipboy101 wrote:The only issue I see is GW Legal not letting me use Bolter in the title or a picture of a Bolter for local advertising (Poster in the front window of FLGSs) for the tournament. Since no one is making any profit for the use of the IP I hope they will just sign off on it.

They won't because GW hates babies and I challenge anyone to present evidence that says otherwise.

Dr Weirdboy wrote:

Pipboy101 wrote:The only issue I see is GW Legal not letting me use Bolter in the title or a picture of a Bolter for local advertising (Poster in the front window of FLGSs) for the tournament. Since no one is making any profit for the use of the IP I hope they will just sign off on it.

They won't because GW hates babies and I challenge anyone to present evidence that says otherwise.

They haven't made Baby Meatshields an option for IG.

Well, the tournament is a go. The boards, foam cutters, glue, flock, sand and paint are being bought in mass now. I am so glad we are closing on a house on Monday so I can have room to start making all this terrain. The FLGS owner and I decided to make this a 2 person team tournament as to get the max amount of people in plus that would raise more money and use less tables.

Ok here is table design ideas I have for the tournament:

1. Chaos style of board of grey rock spires and alters to the different chaos gods.
2. Regular grass and forest type board with rolling hills.
3. Farm board with a ruined barn, house and crops that minitures can move through. The crops will be door mats cut into strips one 25 mm base wide so as models move through the crops the player can remove the square that the model is going to be standing. Models with 3+ save or better, Monsterous Creatures, and vehicle the squares are removed and not replaces. Skimmers if they do not land but hover over the crops the squares are not removed. Any model with a 4+ save or better does not crush the crops and the squares are replaced after they move. Models in the crops will receive a 5+ cover save.
4. Trench board with a no mans land in the middle. There will be craters every five inches or so that units can hope from one crater to the next and get a cover save. There will be a trench on both sides so an army can start entrenched.
5. Desert board, enough said about that one.

We are figuring in 25 total 48" by 72" boards. Hopefully that there will be enough people to fill all the tournament boards so that will be 4 people per board time 25 board to equal 100 people. There will also be 5 extra boards for free play and one Apoc size board for free Apoc play. So we are looking at least 32 boards to be produced. What do you think?

Ok, I received the email from GW Legal regarding the use of a image of a bolter for the tournament advertising and it is so very non-commital it is crazy. All I got was a link to the GW IP Policy and stated that the name "Bolter" is not covered by GW IP and that I need to read the IP statement on the GW website. Then when it recommended me to contact the lawyer's manager as suggested for more information I did and he stated that the term of Bolter is not covered under the copyright and that I need to read the GW IP policy again.

ARGHHH!!!!!!!! I have read it ten times already and it is confusing. I was a cop for over 10 years and have read court documents daily and them telling me that I need to read the IP again was insulting.

What I have gleaned from this poorly written document is that as long as I or anyone else is not making any profit on the use of the IP and I give them written credit for the IP. Also, I must make sure it says that the use is unoffical and unauthorized, then I am skating in the legal side of the grey area of the use of IP with GW.

But with such a non-commital answer from GW I will have to come up with another picture for my advertisement for the tournament.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
At least it was not the resounding NO! everyone was saying that I was going to get. non-commital answers do make me uneasy. Anyone wanting to see the exchange I will post the edited (No names or contact info) exchange between GW Legal and I.

I would attend the charity tournament but only if the proceeds benefitted Tau players.

Well, you can buy rerolls. So that should help out with those pesky rail gun shots. If they are anything like mine I all ways miss no matter if they are twin-linked or not.

I think I will post the letters here from GW legal and I. There is nothing confidential and they did not agree or disagree to anything so it should be fine to post.

Orginal Message from me:

September 16, 2009

Dear Games Workshop Legal Department,

I am wanting to run a Warhammer 40K charity tournament to raise funds for the March of Dimes ( http://www.marchofdimes.com ) in Kansas City, MO. The tournament name is going to be Bolters for Babies. We wanted to have a picture of a bolter on the local gaming store advertisement for the charity tournament. The first thing I wanted to do was get permission from Games Workshop so as not to be in violation of Games Workshop IP. This tournament, 100% of the proceeds will go to the March of Dimes so no one involved will be making any profit from the use of the Bolter IP other than the childern which the March of Dimes will be helping. As of right now we are in the beginning stages of planning for the tournament and have not constructed anything or printed up any advertisment till we get Games Workshop permission.

Any questions feel free to contact me by email, post or by my phone number provided above. Thank you for your time and attention.

First reply from GW Legal

Dear Mr ********,

Many thanks for your email. We always appreciate hobbyists taking the time to contact us with their queries.

Your event sounds great. In respect of any IP concerns, I would suggest that you review the Intellectual Property Policy available at http://legal.games-workshop.com. This outlines the things that you can and cannot do with our IP.

If you would like any clarification on the IP Policy, please feel free to get in touch with my manager, **** *********, copied on this email.

***** ********
Legal Associate
Group Legal Department
Games Workshop Group PLC
Willow Road
Lenton
NG7 2WS

My reply

Dear Mr **** *********,
I want to thank Mr ******** for his quick response to my email regarding to the use of an Games Workshop IP of a Bolter for advertisement of a charity tournament poster. The reason I am contacting you is that I do not see Bolter in the IP list and the website does not cover non-profit charity tournaments. I am covering all the costs myself out of pocket for prize support, game boards, terrain and the renting of hall big enough to hold the event within local fire safety code and there is no commerical gain by anyone involved in the use of the bolter image IP. All the money that is being collected by the tournament is being handed directly to the March of Dimes and I am willing to provide the financial documentation of the tournament proceeds to Games Workshop Legal for review.

Our hope is that if the charity tournament is successful that we will make this an annual tournament in order to bring gamers and fans of Games Workshop Games together in the Kansas City Area for a good cause. An unofficial count as of right now we have over 70 people interested in attending the tournament from as far as the states of Colorado, Illinois, North Carolina and Texas. As of right now, we have not created any advertising, game boards, terrain or rented the space till we got word from Game Workshop Legal about the use of the Bolter image IP. This way we have enough time to change the name or image we want to use. The orignal idea for the charity tournament is to have a bolter lying on its side with a teddy bear and pacifier siting next to it. Thank you for your time and attention.

GW Legal repsonse

I am not sure what you mean by ‘the IP List’. If you mean the list of trademarks, that is because a bolter is not strictly speaking a trademark, but is protected by copyright in both it’s image and design.

Whilst charity tournaments are not specifically covered in the ‘what you can and cannot do with our IP’ section of the policy, they are covered in the policy generally and in the general principles section, which sets out how our IP can be used and how it should be credited.

I trust this clarifies any outstanding issues you may have.

Regards,

**** *********
Legal Manager
Group Legal Department
Games Workshop Group PLC





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Like I said above that at least it was not the resounding NO! everyone was saying that I was going to get. I think I am going to find another image but still use the name bolter since it is not covered by Copyright, IP or Trademark as per GW's legal department. THis will keep the tournament and I out of hot water with GW legal.

Honestly, I thought I was going to be ignored or get a C&D letter from GW Legal. Even though I was was alittle miffed that I was sent back to the IP use policy on the GW website at least they were nice about it. Also, at least they took the time to reply to my request unlike most of the GW departments to their customers and fans.

Pipboy101 wrote:Ok, I received the email from GW Legal regarding the use of a image of a bolter for the tournament advertising and it is so very non-commital it is crazy. All I got was a link to the GW IP Policy and stated that the name "Bolter" is not covered by GW IP and that I need to read the IP statement on the GW website. Then when it recommended me to contact the lawyer's manager as suggested for more information I did and he stated that the term of Bolter is not covered under the copyright and that I need to read the GW IP policy again.

ARGHHH!!!!!!!! I have read it ten times already and it is confusing. I was a cop for over 10 years and have read court documents daily and them telling me that I need to read the IP again was insulting.

What I have gleaned from this poorly written document is that as long as I or anyone else is not making any profit on the use of the IP and I give them written credit for the IP. Also, I must make sure it says that the use is unoffical and unauthorized, then I am skating in the legal side of the grey area of the use of IP with GW.

But with such a non-commital answer from GW I will have to come up with another picture for my advertisement for the tournament.


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At least it was not the resounding NO! everyone was saying that I was going to get. non-commital answers do make me uneasy. Anyone wanting to see the exchange I will post the edited (No names or contact info) exchange between GW Legal and I.

What I said, they hate babies.

They might not hate babies but they would hate on them if they violated GW's IP. This is why I asked permission before using the bolter image.

LiberatedObject wrote:

Dr Weirdboy wrote:

Pipboy101 wrote:The only issue I see is GW Legal not letting me use Bolter in the title or a picture of a Bolter for local advertising (Poster in the front window of FLGSs) for the tournament. Since no one is making any profit for the use of the IP I hope they will just sign off on it.

They won't because GW hates babies and I challenge anyone to present evidence that says otherwise.

They haven't made Baby Meatshields an option for IG.

It's only a matter of time though...
(I suppose they would work like grot-riggers or something)

ALL the tourneys at my FLGS are actually charity events, i.e. the entry fee is donating $10 of non perishable goods for example. Its a great idea, cuz the store can write it off for tax breaks (they do so many a year we donate probably $1500 or so worth off food and things) and helps the community as well. I prefer it personally!

Wannabe Writer wrote:

Redbeard wrote:Well, it really depends on the charity. Let's say someone picked a pro-choice group as the charity - Planned Parenthood, for instance. Some people might have a problem with that, if they were anti-choice.

Personally, I cannot support any charity dedicated to keeping more people alive. The world is already seriously overpopulated, and there is no reason to support even more people. I would not attend a tournament where the proceeds went to the March of Dimes. I understand my position on this is probably unusual, but looking at the world from a larger perspective, maybe we need less babies, not more.

Dude, I respect your views, but the charity is for the prevention of premature births, not a charity for actively encouraging explosion population. Also perhaps this is one of those opinions which might be best kept to oneself, it's quite inflammatory.

"If they'd rather die, then they had better do it and decrease the surplus population. Good night, gentlemen."

I boiled that one down for you. Also, I am totally unsurprised to hear that come from you Redbeard.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually on topic, I'd have no problem at all with attending a tournament whose proceeds would go to a worthy charity.

I would go to a 40k charity event.

I love March of Dimes and any other charity that promotes the large and rapid growth of the human population even at the cost of the destruction of the environment and natural resources.

I personally cannot support any charity event that is not dedicated to keeping more people alive. I could never support an event where the proceeds would go to Planned Parenthood.

I realize that this may be inflammatory, but I have my right to my opinion.

In case anyone is curious, this is NOT sarcasm.

*Edit* Typo

GW Legal repsonse

I am not sure what you mean by ‘the IP List’. If you mean the list of trademarks, that is because a bolter is not strictly speaking a trademark, but is protected by copyright in both it’s image and design.

Whilst charity tournaments are not specifically covered in the ‘what you can and cannot do with our IP’ section of the policy, they are covered in the policy generally and in the general principles section, which sets out how our IP can be used and how it should be credited.

I trust this clarifies any outstanding issues you may have.

Regards,

**** *********
Legal Manager
Group Legal Department
Games Workshop Group PLC

It's not confusing Pipboy, its perfectly clear legalese, permission has not been granted.

"You are treading on our IP and we want you to stop, but we dont want to put it in words that we would to shut down a charity event, thus we are appearing vague."

It implies that if you go ahead anyway it it likely nothing will happen, but GW are very poor at keeping to promises and vague enough if they promise. The Damnatus 'go ahead' springs to mind here, Dreamforge also had their fingers burned the same way. Think this on the lines of negotiating with Tau water caste you arent going to get a clear answer from them, especially allowing for the fact you want to do a charity event. Please also remember that the modus operandi for GW legal is say 'yes-ish' without a firm commmitment, allow you to begin an invvestment in your plans then the Big No once the project is activated and you are committed to operating or set up costs. It appears, and is, more heavy handed and shows that GW are not to be messed with 'coz we will feth you up'. This is how GW were able to claim that the Damnatus go ahead was a misunderstanding, they said yes-ish, even to the point whwere yes-ish included an article in White Dwarf. They saved the Big No until it was fininshed, just as they saved the Big No to Dreamforge once production was underway. They could have been clearer far earlier, but GW want their competitors to lose money, burnt fingers are cautious fingers.

For you its 'no-ish' because as a charity event GW lose more than they gain, rather than appear tough IP protectors, they will just appear as heartless jerks. Hence the early discouragement. Its likely they wont have the stones to stop 'Bolters for Babies', but I am making no promises there.

I think rather than it being a "no" that they're trying to hide it's more of a "we can't possibly stop you" that they're trying to hide. From what I can tell, you can use the term bolter all you want, and as long as you don't have a picture of one (the image and design) GW doesn't have any possible way to stop you.

They're not saying "go ahead" because, well, they don't want people using their terms. You're not going to get GW legal to say "Sure, use that term as much as you want because we can't possibly stop you."

Albatross wrote:Sorry - have I been taking crazy-pills? I could swear that there are people on this board opposed to the treatment of prematurely-born infants... How can you oppose that on the grounds of over-population? If you where opposed to immigration on that basis, then whatever, it's your party.
But premature babies must make up a minute percentage of the general population, surely. By that logic, do we stop treating all sick people? I know you're American Redbeard, but still...
That has got to be the least controversial charity I've ever heard of - Well, apart from 'The Derek Zoolander Center for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Who Want to Learn to Do Other Stuff Good Too', of course

How about 'Battle for Babies'? Avoids legal problems.

+1

I hope Redbeard is turning down any medical assistance when he's ill