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In all game rules seriousness.... the Emperor really count use the 10 max stats we have. (before rotting carcass stage I mean) He was/is one of the most powerful gods AND has a body lol. According to fluff, you would roll a d6. on a 2+ you win the game automatically and your opponent has to give you his wife for the next week. On a 1...... reroll immediately and continue lol

Holy crap if you are being serious i still like those odds better than this CM. LOL!

KingCracker wrote:like this?

THAT'S HIM!




... my god, I had to laugh so hard I nearly woke my sister two rooms away!

This is the single most overpowered thing I have ever seen.

This guy is killing a land raider a turn, especially within flamer range, he is nearly unkillable, has the weapon skill of the Eldar God of Weapon Skill, the Ballistic skill of someone who spends decades training nothing but weapon skill, the strength of marneus calgar with his power fists, the toughness of a being made entirely out of wraithbone, More wounds than anything. Ever. The initiative of a Genetically Altered Genestealer on Magic Crack, 13 ATTACKS, the leadership of calgar, the save that even a 225 point model only gets for one turn, modified by an invulnerable feel no pain, 3 weapons that can kill a land raider a turn (literally) or as many guardsmen as you can get under the template +10-15, he moves faster than the fastest thing in the game, he is again, impossible to kill, oh, and he is immune to the only thing that could possibly make a difference against him.

I would classify this guy as at least 2,000 points, it takes 148 lasgun shots, or 20-ish krak missile shots to wound him even once.

at the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM he is 1500 points, as he is killing a land raider per turn, and after 6 points that is 1500 points of land raiders. I think he would be fair at 3k.

No no no.... the old school Nurgle had 5 wounds. ALOT easier to hurt mind you lol.
Are you sure he could kill a LR a turn? That part wasnt clear

I'm sorry, I just can't get over that. Even the best anti-tank units, in optimal conditions, can get MAYBE 2 pens against AV14. This guy could easily manage 5 or 6.

Oh you arnt the only one that was mind raped by that. I think I came off a bit harsh in my post too. Seriously I read that and thought "do you know how many boyz Id have to throw at that guy to beat it?" Im not good at mathhammer, but Id like someone to find out for me lol

Besides about the LR thing. I usually ignore them when in game. They are TOUGH to beat. With Orks. You would think with all the attacks we get itd be easier but its not. And that guy swallows LRs whole.

At least 400 give 1000 or so. LOL! Seriously though whatever the max number of mega nobz you can take equipped with PKs and then add 180 boyz with a nob equipped with PK. I think that might take him down...maybe.

KingCracker wrote:Oh you arnt the only one that was mind raped by that. I think I came off a bit harsh in my post too. Seriously I read that and thought "do you know how many boyz Id have to throw at that guy to beat it?" Im not good at mathhammer, but Id like someone to find out for me lol

Besides about the LR thing. I usually ignore them when in game. They are TOUGH to beat. With Orks. You would think with all the attacks we get itd be easier but its not. And that guy swallows LRs whole.

Hmmm, I may have screwed up the math, but I got 1080 attacks at S3 to kill him. Let's run through the math:
Chance of hitting X Chance of Wounding X Chance of Him Failing a Save X Chance of Him Failing FnP
1/3*1/6*1/6*1/2=0.00463

.00463*x=1
x=216

5x=1080

Bookwrack wrote:Yeah, I caught that and edited my post. There are only three things about this character worth keeping:

BS: 6
Ld: 10 (can select to pass/fail)
Power weapon.

Everything else should go straight into the rubbish bin. The whole thing needs to be redone from the ground up. I can only be thankful that we haven't been subjected to the 'backstory' that'd try to justify all this silliness.

He's really not that hard to beat, yes he is very amazing, but str 4 weapons can still wound him on 6s, all you have to do is throw a lot of dice at him, and make him roll 1s...and then 3s But seriously, lay off the insults please, I have feelings just like everyone else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok maybe you guys have a point, toughness downgraded to 5 from 6, this way strength 4 can wound on fives instead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
With the downgraded toughness, two squads of 30 ork boyz (equaling 360 points base) charging him inflicted 3 out of his five wounds just with one round of combat. That's not too bad...is it?

He's really not that hard to beat, yes he is very amazing, but str 4 weapons can still wound him on 6s, all you have to do is throw a lot of dice at him, and make him roll 1s...and then 3s But seriously, lay off the insults please, I have feelings just like everyone else.

All you have to do is throw a lot of dice at them.

740 guardsmen dice.

That is 250 guardsmen. 5 mobs of 50.

That is 1250 points of guardsmen, in FRFSRF range, with 5 orders, all passed, this is before special weapons, the cost of the orders, etc.

120 bolter shots. That is 60 space marines in rapid-fire range. 960 points, 6 troops choices. All in rapid-fire range.
This is of course ignoring the fact that, in rapid fire range, they have been getting shot at for 2-3 turns, and this guy and assault 12 + 3d6 + 6 inches, or move 12 inches and let rip 20 S6 rending shots, an enormously powerful flamer template, and another power AT ability, so those marines have died in spades up 'till this point, and will die in spades after this point if he rolls a lucky 2+. He is killing 200 points of infantry per turn, the ONLY limitation to this guy's killing power is the fact that he can't kill a whole tactical squad in shooting, and then kill a different one in CC, he has to choose which one dies this turn, and how. HE CAN ice a land raider in shooting and then completely destroy the entire squad of 7 TH/SS termies + marneus calgar in 2 turns minimum, taking maybe 1 wound in the process.

Canonness Rory wrote:

He's really not that hard to beat, yes he is very amazing, but str 4 weapons can still wound him on 6s, all you have to do is throw a lot of dice at him, and make him roll 1s...and then 3s But seriously, lay off the insults please, I have feelings just like everyone else.

All you have to do is throw a lot of dice at them.

740 guardsmen dice.

That is 250 guardsmen. 5 mobs of 50.

That is 1250 points of guardsmen, in FRFSRF range, with 5 orders, all passed, this is before special weapons, the cost of the orders, etc.

120 bolter shots. That is 60 space marines in rapid-fire range. 960 points, 6 troops choices. All in rapid-fire range.
This is of course ignoring the fact that, in rapid fire range, they have been getting shot at for 2-3 turns, and this guy and assault 12 + 3d6 + 6 inches, or move 12 inches and let rip 20 S6 rending shots, an enormously powerful flamer template, and another power AT ability, so those marines have died in spades up 'till this point, and will die in spades after this point if he rolls a lucky 2+. He is killing 200 points of infantry per turn, the ONLY limitation to this guy's killing power is the fact that he can't kill a whole tactical squad in shooting, and then kill a different one in CC, he has to choose which one dies this turn, and how. HE CAN ice a land raider in shooting and then completely destroy the entire squad of 7 TH/SS termies + marneus calgar in 2 turns minimum, taking maybe 1 wound in the process.

Maybe so, but he is supposed to be amazing, and the only games I intend to play using him are basically 1 model versus 2500 point list games

Then 2500 points seems appropriate, dont you think?
I wouldn't even consider playing against him. That would make for a boring game. Single units aren't supposed to make gigantic differences in battles, because it makes for a boring, stupid game.

I'll fight this character if I can bring along my Emprah.

Canonness Rory wrote:Then 2500 points seems appropriate, dont you think?
I wouldn't even consider playing against him. That would make for a boring game. Single units aren't supposed to make gigantic differences in battles, because it makes for a boring, stupid game.

That's your opinion, My friends would be more than happy to fight him. and I believe it would make a very interesting game.

Playing him would be even more annoying than your red font to be honest.

Night Lords wrote:Playing him would be even more annoying than your red font to be honest.

More red letters just for you I'm just kidding, but really, that was pretty low

Dedrith wrote:That's your opinion, My friends would be more than happy to fight him. and I believe it would make a very interesting game.

How would:

Oh look I just fired 3000 points of guard at him and didnt cause a wound.
Oh look his cheese special character just destroyed several of my squads/tanks in a single turn.
Oh look I still haven't caused a wound.
More squads dead.
Still no wounds.
More squads dead.
OMG I WOUNDED HIM ONCE.
More squads dead.
More squads dead.
More squads dead.
More squads dead.
More squads dead.
YAY HE IS FINALLY DEAD.. owait his imba deathblast just destroyed the remnants of my army

Be at all, even the slightest bit, interesting to play against?

Dedrith wrote:

Canonness Rory wrote:Then 2500 points seems appropriate, dont you think?
I wouldn't even consider playing against him. That would make for a boring game. Single units aren't supposed to make gigantic differences in battles, because it makes for a boring, stupid game.

That's your opinion, My friends would be more than happy to fight him. and I believe it would make a very interesting game.

It's not an opinion, it's a fact that you're flat out wrong. There is really no possible way for this guy to be interesting. You can't play a kill point mission, because your oppenent would always lose. You can't play an objective mission because you would always lose. His absolutely pointless special rules means that you've stripped absolutely everything out of the game except for rolling dice. Movement is irrelevant because he out moves everything on the board. Combine this with the ridiculous 36" range on most of his attacks and it's going to be VERY hard to land anywhere near the 750 bolter hits it will take on average to kill him.

I don't see why my idea offends you so much, this was not a topic for discussing the model, simply asking how many points he should be worth on the battlefield. so again, stop with the insults, it was just an idea.

Because everything about that character is atrocious, and it is simply going to be no fun at all to play against. It's impossible to really give a good estimate of his point value, because with all the junk you've loaded him down with, but he'll probably be a dead hard army all on his own from anywhere from 2k-3k points (Can anyone give me a figure for how marines you'd probably need to field in order to score 125 bolter hits a turn?) . There's just really no way for that to be fun.

Here is what an original character that's actually worth putting on the table would look like. I took your base character, trimmed off all the silliness, but left a core of chapter-master level badness that means he's going to be a significant threat on the table, but is actually going to be worth playing against.
His stats:
WS: 6
BS: 6
S: 4
T: 4(5)
W: 4
I: 5
A: 4
Ld: 10 (but can choose to stay or run)
SV: 2+ / 4++ (terminator armor with rosarius)
He has:
Eternal Warrior
A weapon that can use one of the following profiles each turn:
-A multi barreled cannon that has range: 36 Str: 6 Ap: 5 Assault 3, rending.
-A flamestorm cannon: s6, ap3, template, gets hot!
-A graviton cannon shot s2 ap1 but rolls 3D6 for penetration. (heavy 1 range 18")
- a relic weapon-
In death he calls down lightning from the storm above (it's a fluff thing). Place the small blast marker in base to base contact with him. Anything touched by it takes an s10 ap - hit.

As a rough estimate, I'd say try him out at 400 points and see how that fares. It should tell you something that even so far reduced from the original, this version still rings in at more than any other single character in the game, outside of a few of the Forge World big horking daemons.

That's pretty nice, I may reconsider.

Ok well many people have given you a few points neighborhoods. You can go off of that. What is pissing people off, is your "guy" is coming off not as a serious what do you think. And more of a hey this guy is the stay puft marshmellow man.... if he were made out of awesome sauce that was hit with a comic book style nuclear bomb.

Like I said earlier, if you tone things down ALOT and make him more usuable as a badass in a real game. People here would warm up to your post. You can make a badass, Emperor style character. Thats fine man go for it. But your build is just insanely over the top.

I would have to attack you on average 1080 times with boyz to kill him. Thats if you stood there. I use CC orks as a main so lets use that. An Ork boy with slugga and choppa gets 3 attacks. 4 on a charge. SO to kill him on a charge I need 270 boyz. thats 9 mobs of boyz, and I can only take 6 accourding to the FOC.

Lets be realistic man just a little bit. Also bookwarck I got 62.5 SM and thats rapid firing lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And the suggestion bookwrack gave you is a rather nice one. That guy would be a BAD mofo on the table. Youd be surprised how much so.

Shoot a normal warboss
WS 5
BS 2
S 5
T 5
W 3
I 4
A 4
Ld 9
Sv 6+

I have sent codex chapter masters to the grave with a standard warboss with PK and Eavy armor like it was nothing. And Ive done it a few times. So use that as a guess to the super cool dude bookwrack said

I've seen a BT EC kill 100s of ork boys. Bookwracks suggestion can probably kill 100's of CSM. The only way I'd fight the original uber-powerful character is minus the flamer attack, in a 15,000pt. apoc. battle, the objective is to kill him, and the model is a very expertly painted and converted Chuck Norris.

If you seriously put that thing on the table, I would pack up and never even consider playing you again. Something that stupid should just not be even considered.

He doesnt have an armor save shoot him with a psi cannon, and he cant shoot multiple units, so he cant kill half an army in a single turn just one squad or tank. But I still defenatly would not allow this to be used, and lookin at the stats spec weapons and spec rules. 3000 points minimum, this isnt a chapter master, hes pretty much a chapter unto himself. Refering to the origonal conccept, the revised guy is pretty decent, I might allow that on if im in a good mood.

Acknowledged, though I would still like some thoughts on how many points would be appropriate, nobody has given me a solid number with supporting facts yet

Thats because your character is so ridiculous and unprecedented that no one could possibly come up with a value.

Heres my point value for him: Everything your opponent can possibly put on the table. Why? Because this is the cheapest, most powerful character that completely breaks the game. Fact.

WS: 10 BS: 6 S: 8 T: 5 W: 5 I: 10 A: 13 (yes, I know) Ld: 10 (but can choose to stay or run) SV: 2+ (invulnerable)

Basic Space Marine Chapter master:
125 points.

+4 WS - 50 points.
+1 BS - 25 points
+4 S - 50 points. (essentially a power fist that hits at initiative)
+1 T - 15 points
+2 W - 50 points
+ 5 I - 50 points
+ 9 attacks - 135 points (orks pay 15 points for a +1 bonus)
Ld:10 - 0
2+ invuln save - 200 points

575 so far.


-Feel no pain (can be rolled without restrictions such as instant death)
+ 25 points

-A multi barreled cannon that has range:36 Str: 6 Ap: 5 Assault 20, rending.
+340 points. Leman Russ Punisher is 180, at BS3. At BS6, with rending, AP5, and S6, that is at least twice as powerful.

-A flamethrower, that can be fired concentrated (str 10, AP1, normal flame template) or dispersed (str: 6 AP: 4, apoc. flame template.)
+100 points, considering he can move 12 inches and fire it, it's basically a railgun that autohits.

-An ability that can only be used against vehicles, starts at str 0 but rolls 4 D6 for penetration. (range 36")
+100 points, average roll is 14.

-The ability to move 12" per turn
+200 points, with that armament and terrifying close combat ability.

- the ability to run 3 D6
+50 points, immensely powerful armament means that while OP, it will not be used often.

-fleet
+50

-eternal
+50 points, 10 for each wound.

- a power weapon in close combat
+15 points.

-the ability to use all of his weapons in the shooting phase.
+ 600 points, this is fairly unprecedented.

-immune to "auto kills" (rolling 12 for shokk attack gun strength or such)
+100 points.

- In death he calls down lightning from the storm above (it's a fluff thing) and an apocalyptic blast template is placed over him, causing a strength 10 ap 1 hit on anything under it.
+500 points.

2780 total.

You may as well just kick your opponent in the nuts and throw a live grenade at his army.