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Canonness Rory wrote:WS: 10 BS: 6 S: 8 T: 5 W: 5 I: 10 A: 13 (yes, I know) Ld: 10 (but can choose to stay or run) SV: 2+ (invulnerable)

Basic Space Marine Chapter master:
125 points.

+4 WS - 50 points.
+1 BS - 25 points
+4 S - 50 points. (essentially a power fist that hits at initiative)
+1 T - 15 points
+2 W - 50 points
+ 5 I - 50 points
+ 9 attacks - 135 points (orks pay 15 points for a +1 bonus)
Ld:10 - 0
2+ invuln save - 200 points

575 so far.


-Feel no pain (can be rolled without restrictions such as instant death)
+ 25 points

-A multi barreled cannon that has range:36 Str: 6 Ap: 5 Assault 20, rending.
+340 points. Leman Russ Punisher is 180, at BS3. At BS6, with rending, AP5, and S6, that is at least twice as powerful.

-A flamethrower, that can be fired concentrated (str 10, AP1, normal flame template) or dispersed (str: 6 AP: 4, apoc. flame template.)
+100 points, considering he can move 12 inches and fire it, it's basically a railgun that autohits.

-An ability that can only be used against vehicles, starts at str 0 but rolls 4 D6 for penetration. (range 36")
+100 points, average roll is 14.

-The ability to move 12" per turn
+200 points, with that armament and terrifying close combat ability.

- the ability to run 3 D6
+50 points, immensely powerful armament means that while OP, it will not be used often.

-fleet
+50

-eternal
+50 points, 10 for each wound.

- a power weapon in close combat
+15 points.

-the ability to use all of his weapons in the shooting phase.
+ 600 points, this is fairly unprecedented.

-immune to "auto kills" (rolling 12 for shokk attack gun strength or such)
+100 points.

- In death he calls down lightning from the storm above (it's a fluff thing) and an apocalyptic blast template is placed over him, causing a strength 10 ap 1 hit on anything under it.
+500 points.

2780 total.

Thank you.

Eternal warrior and feel no pain don't mix

2000 pts

Dedrith wrote:

Canonness Rory wrote: - A lot of stuff

Thank you.

Canonness Rory was very KIND in his points evaluation. As he's neglected the stacking effect of a number of your "survivability upgrades", he has actually undervalued a number of things, as high toughness, feel no pain, high invulnerable saves and eternal warrior should never be on the same model. Realistically... if I were costing these items, I'd do the following:

Going by order of operations starting with CR's framework

+1 T: 15 points
+2 wounds: +25 ea (+50)
2+ Fixed Save: (assuming this is costed at 20/wound for T4, we'll go 40/wound for T5, 5 wounds: +200)
Feel no pain: (assuming base cost of 30 points, or 10 points per wound, +5 T5, doubled for 2+, applied to 5 wounds: +150 - reasoning: This has essentially given him the equivalent of 10 wounds at T5 with a 2+ fixed save.)
- always in effect: (negates AP1, AP2 weapons, power weapons in close combat: Double the cost of feel no pain +150)
Eternal Warrior: (assuming base cost of 30 points, or 10 points per wound: +5 for T5, doubled for 2+, doubled again for uncounterable feel no pain, applied to five wounds: 300 reasoning: This has made it so that his effective ten wounds at T5 with a 2+ fixed save can not be bypassed in any way shape or form.)
- always in effect: (negates "remove from play, or instantkill effects such as D-Cannon, Zaap Gun 12 etc.) - Due to the uncommon nature of these attacks, +10 for each wound at +50)

Total: 915 for survivability options alone. Using CR's weapon costs, this would bring your new total to: 3355. IMO, The points value should probably be higher, as your model will:

1. Strike first even when charged and cause an average of 7 MEQ wounds per charge and receive 1/16 of a wound in return assuming said MEQ squad contained a powerfist and forcing a LD check at -7. Non MEQs will be hurt even more. This means that squad sizes above 10 will be needed to be able to have any possibility of inflicting 1 wound on your model. With his high speed, the chances that your model will be charged is very low.
2. Every shooting weapon is laughably ineffective against this model (with the exception of scaling strength - where S7+ weapons are roughly 5x more effective! due to higher chance to wound: 5/108 vs 1/108 chance)
3. The above assumes that there is anything left to shoot your model, as your model may fire his all his ludicrous weapons every turn.

3355p is a bit steep for one single model, but I agree with your calculations. The character is so incredibly powerful that he needs to cost a lot.

I think Canonness had a decent point value, and if I was into accepting those kinds of models, I think I'd accept her price tag. (Eventho she might have been generous )

However I don't see how you could play with that character though, because (as mentioned) that character would auto-win annihilation missions, and at best draw all others. I guess you could come up with some home made scenario, where your opponents only objective is to kill that one character. But _imho_ that makes for poor gameplay, and a waste of time that could be used to play regular, decent-balanced, 40k.

p.s. theres actually a "switch theme" button which some people tend to use, so staying with the default font colors would be preferable. ;P

person person wrote:I've seen a BT EC kill 100s of ork boys. Bookwracks suggestion can probably kill 100's of CSM. The only way I'd fight the original uber-powerful character is minus the flamer attack, in a 15,000pt. apoc. battle, the objective is to kill him, and the model is a very expertly painted and converted Chuck Norris.

Ok, THIS is a win comment.

5000 points for making me lol

i agree

make him a Appoc only and name him Chuck

Cheese Elemental wrote:You may as well just kick your opponent in the nuts and throw a live grenade at his army.

I tried that once at a tourny, didn't go down so well

Kragura wrote:

Cheese Elemental wrote:You may as well just kick your opponent in the nuts and throw a live grenade at his army.

I tried that once at a tourny, didn't go down so well

Throw the grenade first next time, that way in the moment of "oh em gee" you can kick em, and get away, cuz by the time people realize whats happening, you'll be gone!

Canonness Rory was very KIND in his points evaluation.

HER

And really, I just made up huge numbers for some of his crap, especially the weapon options and things without precedent.
I really think this character is nearly impossible to properly point, as in games under 20k points he will basically be dominating the entire battle. And like most people said, KP games will be completely and utterly destroyed by this guy, even at close to 5 or 6 thousand points (barring some of the super-cheese apoc armies), whereas he would be worth his weight in goat cheese in objective missions, probably closer to 1-2k points. Many units suffer from this, but that is why most untis costs between 1 and 3 hundred points, so they don't soak up your entire army and you can have at least SOME tactical flexibility. This special character is a killing machine, priceless in KP missions, or in huge point values, and worthless at low points values, in objective missions.

Canonness Rory wrote:

Canonness Rory was very KIND in his points evaluation.

HER

*duck and cover*

The last guy to have a stat line like that was Horus, and he put the Emp. in a chair. I say no

if i had a very very large army like 20000 points
and i agree name him chuck

I think you forgot the "on a roll of 1+ I win" rule. The reason your friends are alrightwith it is probably because they have the same guy, and your armies are just 2 converted action men which can't hurt each other.

If you toned itdown to fit in just below a C'tan statline, and said he was a primarch instead of a chapter master, then maybe I'td be ok, but the reason people are against it is because it goes against the spirit of the game, I'm sure anyone at games workshop could have easily made a 1 page codex of just Chuck Norris

thank you. he hasn't shut up about his new awesome character. (we haven't even said if we'd let him use something so insanely broken).

What does the model look like anyways?

I almost get the feeling that your chapter master is secretly a Daemon Prince, or a chaos god himself.

The rule that says he can choose to run or stay is called 'iron will' (its in the daemonhunters codex under inquisitor lords). Id say he would be about the same amount of points as a warord titan as he is basically one. bout 2000 points


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ive come to the conclusion now that the model should be around 10000 points as he could fight a spaceship and win!!!

I would put him somewhere over nine thousand.

Owain wrote:I would put him somewhere over nine thousand.

WHAT NINE THOUSAND!?

THAT COULDN'T BE RIGHT!!

He's probably not worth 9000, since he can only destroy one thing a turn, barring scattering templates, catching 5 infantry units under the apoc template, etc. But he would be unstoppable by say a 3000 point army.

Seriously though, did you really think this would be a sensible idea? Marneus Calgar, for example, is supposed to be the paragon of chapter masters. He's got the ordinary stats, one extra wound w/eternal warrior, the most elite equipment possible, and two very good special rules, one affecting his army's morale and one making him better in combat. Even if you want your chapter master to be chuck norris, why would you do more this much crap?

You've taken titan class guns, which are presumably carried by a SM-sized model. You've given him every movement and toughness upgrade possible, than added special provisos to make sure he will not be removed by sneaky shokk attack guns, etc.

Why not take a SM chapter master, give him an extra wound with eternal warrior, terminator armour, some kind of heavy flamer type weapon, and a power fist that strikes at initiative? That would be a normal, acceptable, "I'm a fanboy and my chapter master is the hardest chapter master, because my marines are the best!" type thing to do. Your original idea is just over the top.

I continue to believe your posts in this thread are part of a subtle, protracted effort to convince people you really believe in this idea, when you're actually just sitting at your desk giggling and getting a major rise out of everyone.

tothelastman wrote:It's over 9000!!!!

Hehe, thats funny... DBZ refferences fit anywhere...

Anyway, i'd set the guy as 780 pts, and from there, asses whether you sohuld add or remove them in game. A warhound titan is 750 pts, an no offence, but if he gets hit with two turbolasers, he's skrewed anyway. I'd also recoment APOCALYPSE ONLY!.
And write some fluff so it doesnt sound so preposterous. Im always one for good fluff. A good model will help your cause too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Acctually, i seccond Canonness Rory and her responce.o But still look out for StrD, coz you'd be skrewed

After careful consideration of this characters abilites I would cost him at about 6 pts, wait no 5 pts.

I would then insist I that I could use my 5pt model (a 5 pound hammer; immune to all attacks from little metal or plastic models), on my first turn I would begin using the hammers attacks by smashing your models and shouting I win! I win!


no seriously though, 5 pts

What?

I just wanted to point out to the "he can only take out 1 squad a turn" crowd. Sure in a normal situation thats true. BUT take for example the ultra flamer of death. Thats an APOC template. You could easily have that hitting 2 or 3 squads in one shot. Not saying it would kill said squads, but just a thought


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is still going?!

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:

I continue to believe your posts in this thread are part of a subtle, protracted effort to convince people you really believe in this idea, when you're actually just sitting at your desk giggling and getting a major rise out of everyone.

I don't know why you have to resort to something so pathetic as to put people down over their own ideas. I asked for constructive feedback, not crap like this. This was a real idea, one I worked on for a long time. I simply wanted to make a very powerful apocalypse-only HQ and I had a hard time choosing a proper point value.

I shouldn't have to deal with this. I'm closing this topic; some people feel they need to put others down for their ideas and beliefs simply to compensate for their own insecurity.