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Che-Vito wrote:The other thought I base that on is from a family friend that is a Colonel in the Marines, who specifically told me not to enlist...ever...due to some of the people that slip in.

Just about every profession (military and civilian) is going to have bad people slipping in.

Rubberanvil wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:The other thought I base that on is from a family friend that is a Colonel in the Marines, who specifically told me not to enlist...ever...due to some of the people that slip in.

Just about every profession (military and civilian) is going to have bad people slipping in.

This is a very...not well thought out comment!!! Yes, what you stated is true...but do the same number of violent crimes occur with dentists? Or most other professions for that matter? Not by any means...

Plenty of dentists are now being found out as doing quite...questionable things with female patients under anesthesia.

So yeah, there's that.

But you also have to remember that, as of right now, the military has a large problem with gang members having slipped in and retaining their gang ties and allegiances over their actual military oaths.

Kanluwen wrote:Plenty of dentists are now being found out as doing quite...questionable things with female patients under anesthesia.

So yeah, there's that.

But you also have to remember that, as of right now, the military has a large problem with gang members having slipped in and retaining their gang ties and allegiances over their actual military oaths.

Yes, and Morticians fornicate with bodies...blah ze blah...

But the second part of your post seems to indicate that you get my point.

Kanluwen wrote:But you also have to remember that, as of right now, the military has a large problem with gang members having slipped in and retaining their gang ties and allegiances over their actual military oaths.

House Delaque for the win!

Seriously though, there are plenty of actual "ganger regiments" in the Imperium, just formed from hive gangers who are experienced in urban combat. There's no way the US Military (or the military of any modern western country) is anything near the grimdark of most of the 40k armed forces.

Orkeosaurus wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:But you also have to remember that, as of right now, the military has a large problem with gang members having slipped in and retaining their gang ties and allegiances over their actual military oaths.

House Delaque for the win!

Seriously though, there are plenty of actual "ganger regiments" in the Imperium, just formed from hive gangers who are experienced in urban combat. There's no way the US Military (or the military of any modern western country) is anything near the grimdark of most of the 40k armed forces.

United States Grimdark Corp. ftw...

Che-Vito wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Plenty of dentists are now being found out as doing quite...questionable things with female patients under anesthesia.

So yeah, there's that.

But you also have to remember that, as of right now, the military has a large problem with gang members having slipped in and retaining their gang ties and allegiances over their actual military oaths.

Yes, and Morticians fornicate with bodies...blah ze blah...

But the second part of your post seems to indicate that you get my point.

Oh no, I get your point. I just think it's a stupid one to make. There are a lot of police forces with the same issue, hell even security companies.

I'm saying that you will see any number of weird and questionable things in any profession that has some form of authority over anyone else. It's really that simple.

Che-Vito wrote:but do the same number of violent crimes occur with dentists? Or most other professions for that matter? Not by any means...

Given how a lot of crime is done by people when they're not on the job, the profession argument don't hold much water and is stereotypical.


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Kanluwen wrote:

But you also have to remember that, as of right now, the military has a large problem with gang members having slipped in and retaining their gang ties and allegiances over their actual military oaths.

What's bugging the military is the gang element while in service is behaving just enough, there's not much that can be legally done with them.


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Rubberanvil wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:but do the same number of violent crimes occur with dentists? Or most other professions for that matter? Not by any means...

Given how a lot of crime is done by people when they're not on the job, the profession argument don't hold much water and is stereotypical.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:

But you also have to remember that, as of right now, the military has a large problem with gang members having slipped in and retaining their gang ties and allegiances over their actual military oaths.

What's bugging the military is the gang element while in service is behaving just enough, there's not much that can be legally done with them.

Rubberanvil wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:but do the same number of violent crimes occur with dentists? Or most other professions for that matter? Not by any means...

Given how a lot of crime is done by people when they're not on the job, the profession argument don't hold much water and is stereotypical.

And the same holds true for servicemen...oddly enough it does hold water!


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Kanluwen wrote:

But you also have to remember that, as of right now, the military has a large problem with gang members having slipped in and retaining their gang ties and allegiances over their actual military oaths.

In other words, lack of discipline!

Why did you post that multiple times?

Ridiculous.

And that's not a "lack of discipline".

That's individuals being responsible for their own crap, and giving everyone else a bad name.

Kanluwen wrote:Why did you post that multiple times?

Ridiculous.

And that's not a "lack of discipline".

That's individuals being responsible for their own crap, and giving everyone else a bad name.

Mmmm, forgive my vagueness. I meant a lack of individual discipline.

Except that's a moronic thing to use as a rating scale for AN ENTIRE ORGANIZATION.

That's like saying that a minority is lazy because one person is, etc. It's stupid.

Kanluwen wrote:Except that's a moronic thing to use as a rating scale for AN ENTIRE ORGANIZATION.

That's like saying that a minority is lazy because one person is, etc. It's stupid.

I'm not the one who rated it, but I'll take the word of several people I've known in the service, as well as Colonel who was adamantly against my enlisting, because of some of the people who slip in. If it was just an oddball or two, he wouldn't have been concerned.

You seem to really have tunnel-vision on this one. I am not advocating that everyone that is enlisted is EVIL-UBER-GRIMDARK!!!, but that an organization consists of the sum of it's parts, and with the armed services...the parts have become increasingly rough in the past decade, which means that whole has as well.

Relax.

Che-Vito wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Except that's a moronic thing to use as a rating scale for AN ENTIRE ORGANIZATION.

That's like saying that a minority is lazy because one person is, etc. It's stupid.

I'm not the one who rated it, but I'll take the word of several people I've known in the service, as well as Colonel who was adamantly against my enlisting, because of some of the people who slip in. If it was just an oddball or two, he wouldn't have been concerned.

Still stereotyping the whole service and every profession and business is going to have troublemakers. The military being what it is isn't going to have large number of them in any one location with out someone higher up and the law enforcement (mil and civilian) side noticing.

Plus your "word of several people" is bias regardless of where they stand on the good/bad meter.

Rubberanvil wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Except that's a moronic thing to use as a rating scale for AN ENTIRE ORGANIZATION.

That's like saying that a minority is lazy because one person is, etc. It's stupid.

I'm not the one who rated it, but I'll take the word of several people I've known in the service, as well as Colonel who was adamantly against my enlisting, because of some of the people who slip in. If it was just an oddball or two, he wouldn't have been concerned.

Still stereotyping the whole service and every profession and business is going to have troublemakers. The military being what it is isn't going to have large number of them in any one location with out someone higher up and the law enforcement (mil and civilian) side noticing.

Plus your "word of several people" is bias regardless of where they stand on the good/bad meter.

Your first statement doesn't make a terrible amount of sense as worded...can you restate it differently?
It seems that you're trying to say "it happens everywhere", and earlier in this article, I specifically addressed this line of thought...

The people I've talked to probably are bias. Then again, to have bias is to be human. I can think of 4 that I consider to be moral individuals....that have a negative opinion of the service, and I've had to deal with several of the jerks in both my line of work and personal life.

Could you be any more off topic!
Moar grimdark.

On-topic, my understanding/imagination is that the PDF are the trained military of a planet, they're (on a hive or civilised world) a fully trained military with all the current imperium equipment. IG regiments are just picked PDF formations for off-world service, or picked men trained with local PDF methods then sent off-world. So the 'average' IG regiment while on route to its first assignment is just a PDF force, maybe a bit fitter and more motivated.

The difference comes from combat experience. Since most worlds in the imperium are at least a bit fethed up, the average PDF should have some experience of counter insurgency, low-intensity combat, etc. Whereas the crusades and defences from invasion IG regiments fight in are presented as the worst bits of WW2, on crack. But the Armageddon PDF, for example, would be as hard as the very hardest IG regiments.

IG regiments should be the cream of the PDF as it says is the book, as far as training and potential are concerned, but the real difference is that a guardsman is more likely to fight in high-intensity campaigns and will get a greater range of experience (he'll probably get killed!)

The exception to the rule, I imagine, is when guardsmen go to an imperial world, sneer at the PDF, not realising that the PDF have just spent 10 years repulsing an Ork WAAAAGH, and are much harder than the actual guardsmen.

Back to topic, when a PDF regiment is picked up, does that count only the troops who would be fighting or would it be troops and their logistical support element?

Meh

Dark Heresy, GW's RPG line for 40k for those that don't know, suggests that the Arbites are basically there to root out major crimes ( Like Heresy! ) and the PDFs are in charge of general defense, putting down riots, and overall policeing.

I'd have to imagine most planets have a local police force doing most of the work (domestic disturbance, petty theft, etc).

I thought in most cases the PDF WERE the local police?

Nope...

That falls to, normally, local nobility or the higher "castes" to provide retainers to the planet itself.

Or they use localized militias, from what I've gathered.

localized militia ARE the PDF!

No, actually, they're not.

The PDF is a professional army.

The localized militias, according to the 13th Black Crusade sourcebook, are usually drawn up from willing volunteers during the times of crisis and either are given their armament from the PDF armories or from local civic armories.

Ah, but that would be priamrily around the Cadia Sector, no?

It would depend entirely on the planet. Some planets PDF may be frighteningly similiar to 'Dad's Army' or they may be as hardbitten as any Imperial Guard. (Read the codex, it actually mentions this).

Also, for some/many planets the PDF and Police Force could be synomous or entiely seperate.

The example that they gave was a planet called Lelithar, which was a planet that Cypher was corrupting.

Before the mass defections and insurgency, the Lelithar PDF and "other native forces", strength wise were:

Lelithar Planetary Defense Force(Light) 1,424 regiments
Mechanized 245 regiments
Armoured 91 regiments
Artillery 52 regiments
Governor's Own Mounted Guard 3 regiments
Wilderness Patrol Regiments 17 regiments
Volunteer Reserve 951 regiments
Citizen's Militia 1,874 regiments
Off World Settlers' Volunteer Regiments 27 Regiments

Make of it what you will, but that's the example they give on how a PDF is set up.

So, from this, perhaps we can agree somewhat to that some planets use the PDF as their police force, and some not?

Aye, that we can laddie.

Being fair, they perform rather horrendously in Storm of Iron with a few exceptions, and even worse in Dark Apostle.

As was noted it does vary from world to world. Some are better, or on par with, most Guard Regiments (Vervunhive, Mordian, Armaggeddon, etc...) while many are not much more than uniformed mobs with guns