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Ok... maybe this is the wrong place for this little mini-rant... but WTF is up with people wanting "consensus?"

If everyone tries to just agree with each other all it leads to is group-think. It does not lead to the creation and debate of ideas. It does not lead to people becoming better players from thinking "outside the box."

When someone wins a major tournament with a new build (nob bikers, jetseer council, etc) they did not seek "consensus" to approve of their at-the-time outside-of-the-box army builds. They built it, they playtested it, and they won.

Consensus is just a synonym for stagnation.

Excellent post, willyd.

Asking for a consensus is a great way to spark debate though.

My friend uses him almost every game and always makes his points back.

Against me in numerous games he's destroyed my team of Broadsides, Hammerheads, Crisis Suits, etc.

Against one of my friends I've seen him take on/out a unit of Plague Marines, tie up Thousand Sons...

He's a good guy to use, if just for the psych factor.

For 65 points, Marbo does a heck of job.

His Demo Charge can wipe whole units off the table, and his ability to show up anywhere is ace. With Poisoned attacks and an AP 2 Sniper pistol, he's also able to put the hurt on Monstrous Creatures.

jesus christ just use him 65 points why not

zachwho wrote:jesus christ just use him 65 points why not

On that mode of thought, why don't space marine armies bring along 75 point scout squads? They're only 75 points!

Because they take up a much more important slot for the SM and are much better at support (not to mention a WS/BS 3, and an armor save of 4+) I'd take the space marines, and maybe a sniper rifle scout squad, thank you very much.

Canonness Rory wrote:

zachwho wrote:jesus christ just use him 65 points why not

On that mode of thought, why don't space marine armies bring along 75 point scout squads? They're only 75 points!

let intelligence light the darkness of your brain


dont be a moron there really is no comparison between a one man army and scout squads.

zachwho wrote:

Canonness Rory wrote:

zachwho wrote:jesus christ just use him 65 points why not

On that mode of thought, why don't space marine armies bring along 75 point scout squads? They're only 75 points!

let intelligence light the darkness of your brain


dont be a moron there really is no comparison between a one man army and scout squads.

I personally do pay the 80pts for Blood Angels scouts (normally also 65pts for another 5) but then they have been trained

zachwho wrote:

Canonness Rory wrote:

zachwho wrote:jesus christ just use him 65 points why not

On that mode of thought, why don't space marine armies bring along 75 point scout squads? They're only 75 points!

let intelligence light the darkness of your brain


dont be a moron there really is no comparison between a one man army and scout squads.

Please refrain from personal attacks. I was simply pointing out that if you judge them based solely on points then there are many units of comparable points that aren't worth it.

willydstyle wrote:Ok... maybe this is the wrong place for this little mini-rant... but WTF is up with people wanting "consensus?"

If everyone tries to just agree with each other all it leads to is group-think. It does not lead to the creation and debate of ideas. It does not lead to people becoming better players from thinking "outside the box."

When someone wins a major tournament with a new build (nob bikers, jetseer council, etc) they did not seek "consensus" to approve of their at-the-time outside-of-the-box army builds. They built it, they playtested it, and they won.

Consensus is just a synonym for stagnation.

Excellent observation

willydstyle wrote:Ok... maybe this is the wrong place for this little mini-rant... but WTF is up with people wanting "consensus?"

If everyone tries to just agree with each other all it leads to is group-think. It does not lead to the creation and debate of ideas. It does not lead to people becoming better players from thinking "outside the box."

When someone wins a major tournament with a new build (nob bikers, jetseer council, etc) they did not seek "consensus" to approve of their at-the-time outside-of-the-box army builds. They built it, they playtested it, and they won.

Consensus is just a synonym for stagnation.

I disagree. If many veteran dakka gamers can agree on the utility of a particular unit, it saves me some playtesting time. If I have ten people tell me that they've burned their fingers on a stove, then I don't have to touch the stove and burn my fingers to find out if it's hot...

Sure, sometimes the dakka consensus misses something important, and that can throw the rest of us off. But if a whole bunch of dakkaites come into a topic and can't figure out anything useful to do with a character or unit, that tells me that they're probably not worth wasting my time on - and if a goodly portion of them agree that it's good for this or that, then that helps me, too.

I think the consensus he's pretty good and given the right opportunity can really have a disproportionate impact on the game, but due to this weaknesses there will be times he will either accomplish too little or cost a kill point. At 65pts, however, it seems that he's a really good insurance policy against a few really annoying unit types.

If he's used right, he can destroy any well-laid plan, but he's not good for much else.

Hahahahaha!!!E$@#!

What more could you possibly want him to do?

"He may totally ruin the other guy's plans, but hey, how useful could that be?" Hahaha.

There is one word for Rambo that is random. He is a good buy at 65 points but for tournaments he is just too random. He has to go in reserves so because of randomness it might be a few turns before he shows up or he might show up on turn 2 before you cracked open the land raider for him to bomb those terminators. The bomb is also random with its scatter you might hit nothing or Rambo might blow himself up. He does have good bs so the bomb most of the time does some good damage killing more then his 65 pts but sometimes it doesn't. There is also the random factor that 1/3 of missions are kill points. Rambo almost always dies when the opponent retaliates so coughs up a kill point most of the time.

Rambo is a fun unit to use but I won't be relying on him for tournaments.

I was satisfied with his performance 90% of the time. That other 10% was due to my own stupidity. If you throw the charge and hit a unit (assuming he doesn't kill himself in the process) there are going to be dead models. If they survive to shoot him into little tiny pieces then that is a round of shooting that is wasted on one guy. Marbo is about being in the right place. You can't always control the time, but you can always control the location. It just comes down to taking advantage of that fact.

There is one word for Rambo that is random.

What in a game of dice is not random?

There are no sure things in 40K. Every unit represents a potential return on investment. For 65 points, and a guarantee that he will show up where you want him (maybe not when, but with advisors you increase your odds), his potential for a favorable payoff is very high.

Marbo is the man, as I said, I have had only one game where he was not a stand out performer, and that was because he blew himself up. That happens once in a while, but that happens to all units once in a while. IMO, he is more than a safe an investment, he is a very smart play.

Kirika wrote:There is one word for Rambo that is random. He is a good buy at 65 points but for tournaments he is just too random. He has to go in reserves so because of randomness it might be a few turns before he shows up or he might show up on turn 2 before you cracked open the land raider for him to bomb those terminators. The bomb is also random with its scatter you might hit nothing or Rambo might blow himself up. He does have good bs so the bomb most of the time does some good damage killing more then his 65 pts but sometimes it doesn't. There is also the random factor that 1/3 of missions are kill points. Rambo almost always dies when the opponent retaliates so coughs up a kill point most of the time.

Rambo is a fun unit to use but I won't be relying on him for tournaments.

Ok a few things, if your playing competitive guard in a torny.... your have 65 points to spare (assuming your taking the mech vet list of doom) and I dont see how random he is. If your taking an astropath then your reserves are coming in on a 3+. Even if he comes in later he can still be useful. Think about it if he comes in early he can pop a transport and then force something to fire at him, shots not going at your chimeras or something else important. Or you have him come in and use his demo charge to try to pop a long range gun your opponent has. If he comes in latter you can use him to clear an objective off with his demo charge.

Sure the demo charge can scatter, but hes bs 5 so assuming you roll average on 2 d6 which is 7 then he will only scatter 2 inches. Those odds don't seem too bad to me.

As for killpoints, if your mech guard your already giving up alot of kps so hows 1 more going to hurt. In kp missions mech guard win by tabling their opponent so it really doesn't matter how many kps you give up when your opponent does not have any models on the table.

Im not saying your concerns are not valid, but I feel they are not enough to not warrant not taking him.

I consider myself a veteran 40k torny player and I prefer playing competitive games as much as I can, and plan on always taking him in my torny lists.