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hmmm, interesting (but a little OT lol)

Back on topic, I'm wondering one thing; why does the name of the game need to change to 41K. If they do advance, I'm pretty sure that the name would stay the same, especially since a new name equals new marketing.

The UK comic 2000AD is still called 2000AD.

GW don't want the story to advance. Look at the overall situation.

Imp vs Chaos has been stalemate for 10,000 years.

Orks are always wandering around making a nuisance of themselves, but never any real headlines apart from Armageddon, which I think they have attacked three times.

The Eldar have spent 40,000 years in decline but NOT died out.

The Tau, despite their rapidly advancing technology, took 300 years to get rid of the Gets Hot rule from their not-sniper rifle. Also, the result of the Medusa V campaign was clearly determined to give GW an excuse not to let Tau get better warp drives, so they will be confined to a small area.

Tyranids and Necrons, although a recent arrival on the scene, have both been operating for several hundred years and achieved nothing on a grand scale.

The whole history in in stasis and no major changes will ever be allowed.

Which is exceptionally sad considering that, like I said, the setting large enough to absorb some change that makes for a lot of interest - and showcases some creative opportunities - without destabilizing any of the factions so far as to result in necessary gameplay or marketing changes.

Kilkrazy wrote:Imp vs Chaos has been stalemate for 10,000 years.

Orks are always wandering around making a nuisance of themselves, but never any real headlines apart from Armageddon, which I think they have attacked three times.

The Eldar have spent 40,000 years in decline but NOT died out.

The Tau, despite their rapidly advancing technology, took 300 years to get rid of the Gets Hot rule from their not-sniper rifle. Also, the result of the Medusa V campaign was clearly determined to give GW an excuse not to let Tau get better warp drives, so they will be confined to a small area.

Tyranids and Necrons, although a recent arrival on the scene, have both been operating for several hundred years and achieved nothing on a grand scale.

The whole history in in stasis and no major changes will ever be allowed.

Okay. Clear, concise, convincing. This may be the best answer I've yet seen in 40k Background.

Stagnation of the fluff is a good thing..

If they changed it then look out for the complaints.. the endless complaints would destroy the internet itself..

There's a marked difference between a lack of resolution and stagnation. They could allow the bad guys to win and push the battle lines around sometimes without also needing to say "and then the Imperium fell apart and our game went kaput - the end". At the same time the Imperium could win and do something other than go home with a rousing shout of "we protected the status quo - hurrah".

I mean, we all know that the Golden Throne cannot fail, nor can the 'nids come along and munch everything up. However, that doesn't mean there can't be any storylines with meaningful plots and developments; populated by dynamic, evolving characters.

Unfortunately, GW established what's happened at the end of the 41st millennium already. So there are a lot of things they CAN'T do just yet. That is not to say there aren't huge sections of the Imperium left unspoken for yet. In fact, there are large tracts not definitively filled with Imperial established rule or roving warbands of chaos, orks, Dark Eldar, and the like. So there is still room for a lot to happen.

I don't see Games Workshop pulling the Imperium out by its roots any more likely than they are going to have Chaos defeated, or the Orks abolished, or the Eldar finally becoming extinct, the Necron's disabled.... etc, etc...

Why you ask? Well, because all the races are just one side of a large cube. There is no more reason for one to thrive than another to falter compared to the rest. The Eldar, a dying but not dead race could still come back, not a whole lot but lore stopping them, the Orks are not indomitable, there are races of aliens that have mastered them in some of the older fluff, or themselves becoming some resemblance of "civilized," as they are want to do from time to time. Tyranids are from out the 40k galaxy, but that is not to say that a solution might come from without, if not from within.

So I am not rooting for anyone in particular. I think it would be interesting if there was a great schism in the Imperium, maybe a dividing and a resurgence of their power as the shackles are cast and the corrupt torn down or exiled. But also this would allow great cracks for the opposing forces of the Imperium to seep in.

That is, the end of times does not occur, but a great change in the nature of the galaxy.

Honestly, being a loyalist, I kinda like the stalemate.

If everyday is a fight for survival, and we're still alive, then WE WINZ!!!

Stalemate??? DEFEATISM!!!

No, manchu think about it!

The enemy is trying to kill us.
So far they are failing.

We are trying to survive.
So far we are successful.

Objectives.
Goodies: 1
Baddies: 0

We're Winning!

Ah, quite. That description is more to my taste.

Think of 40k like a WWII strategy game. GW's written the history up to D-Day and doesn't think that anyone would want to play after they put out Codex:Nuclear Weapons for 1945.

solkan wrote:Think of 40k like a WWII strategy game. GW's written the history up to D-Day and doesn't think that anyone would want to play after they put out Codex:Nuclear Weapons for 1945.

Well, the problem there is that strategically, the successful landing at D-Day was the pull of the trigger of the guillotine (ha ha, French execution weapon because Normandy was in France!) for Nazi Germany and the Whermacht. The rest of the war after that was just the blade coming down. Two footholds for the Allies, one to the south, the other to the west, the polar ice cap to the north, and Soviet Russia kicking in your back door.... It was pretty much over when Tom Hanks lead the assault up the beach. It must have taken a supr-CREEEEDD!!!

Actually, the war was over way before Normandy ever happened. It was just the final nail in the coffin.

Soviet Russia could very well have taken on Germany single-handedly.

Well me and the other traitor legionaries are still around that's a win in itself.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Actually, the war was over way before Normandy ever happened. It was just the final nail in the coffin.

Soviet Russia could very well have taken on Germany single-handedly.

Highly arguable. The Russians had no ability to strike deep into Germany except from the ground, so would have been unable to slow Germany's massive industry. If not for the British/American campaign in Africa, cutting off German oil supplies, the Germans probably would have tromped across Russia eventually.

The war was lost as soon as Germany declared war on Russia (which may not have been such a horrible idea, Stalin was most likely planning on betraying Hitler anyhow, and invading. So the Germans seized the initiative and struck first), and perhaps when they failed to keep America out of the war. The simple fact is that Germany HAD to keep attacking, their entire economy was based on invasion after invasion to boost their income by pillaging the reserves and valuables of conquered countries. It was unsustainable!

Ah, no. The Soviets were making massive gains and heading for Berlin before Normandy occured. Africa was (in reality) little more than a sideshow compared to the massive theatre in Russia. (methinks)

The only REAL point of WW2 where there was a real chance of germany winning overall all, was the Battle for Britain. If Hitler had knocked out the RAF, Britain would most likely have sued for peace. His mistake was to target the cities (after Berlin was bombed by RAF he lost his cool and retalitated). If he had concentrated on the airfields victory was not only entirely possible, but likely.

As for the economy, I think you have been playing Total War too much. While the Nazi party was one of the most disorganised parties around, that didn't mean that thier economy would collapse the moment they stopped fighting. They weren't NIDS for goodness sake!

@Emperors Faithful

@Manchu; Pic's not coming through, mate.

I would continue this discussion about WWII, but this is not the place for it, but I do not agree with you that Africa was unimportant, or that Russia could have won the war alone. Or that the German economy at that time was not almost solely based on military advance.

The way I see it is that the Imperium has become fossilized and reliant on terror and war to preserve itself that it continually strengthens the forces of Chaos by the generation of negative emotions.

From this viewpoint, every day the Imperium continues in its current form is a win for Chaos.

We could go down that road, KK, and spiral into the abyss of "where is the Chaos god of warm feelings of loyal devotion to the Emprah?" debate. Seems to me that Chaos doesn't get any more powerful from one millenium to the next.

Indeed it doesn't, which is surprising when you consider the factor I mentioned.

Almost as if some higher power were controlling the whole timeline!!!111!

::cue angelic choir::

Here, let me fix that for you.

Manchu wrote:::cue daemonic choir::

You're a hater, too?

Manchu wrote:You're a hater, too?

No, not that much of a hater. Somethings he's done I like, others I don't, but it was funnier to do that than to do nothing.

Can ask what falls into each column? (Seriously, this is not some kind of ambush.)

Wrong forum for that my friend, and I'm not much interested in thinking about it. But what I mostly disliked about his work was 3rd and 4th Edition (after a few months of 4th I took a break from the hobby until 5th was released).