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I think combat squads is also bad in that it gives more kill points yes/no?

Yes. However, you can choose whether or not to use Combat Squads when you deploy, so you can avoid using it in Annihilation missions if need be.

I think the point is that shooting bolt pistols, even with the best possible play, isn't' always an option. All the finesse in the game won't help you move the models further.

Skyclaws also help if joining an existing combat, which in addition to those times you don't' want to lose a charge, makes the race a lot more even.

Polonius wrote:I think the point is that shooting bolt pistols, even with the best possible play, isn't' always an option. All the finesse in the game won't help you move the models further.

If you deploy correctly, make the right baits, and so on, you won't have to worry about it.

For everything else, there's Thunderca..ts..I mean wolves.

Thunderwolves seem somewhat overrated to me, but they're definitely one of the more promising units the Space Wolves have to offer.

Fetterkey wrote:Thunderwolves seem somewhat overrated to me, but they're definitely one of the more promising units the Space Wolves have to offer.

You also thought melta's were overrated.

Iron priest is going to be the only thunder wolf in my army. Him and 4 cyberwolves, 155pts of fun.

Too bad he can't join a Thuderwolf squad for more badassery.

whitedragon wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:Thunderwolves seem somewhat overrated to me, but they're definitely one of the more promising units the Space Wolves have to offer.

You also thought melta's were overrated.

But meltas are overrated.

Oh please...get a room you two.

Lets not devolve this into a pillow fight.

Sanctjud wrote:Oh please...get a room you two.

Lets not devolve this into a pillow fight.

Luckily, there already is a "room" for this discussion...

I know, hence the pillow fight comment.
Oh well.

I had enough of it over at 40KO...no need to jump in here for that.

Fetterkey wrote:

Polonius wrote:I think the point is that shooting bolt pistols, even with the best possible play, isn't' always an option. All the finesse in the game won't help you move the models further.

If you deploy correctly, make the right baits, and so on, you won't have to worry about it.

that's demonstrably not always true. First, you have the possibility of models already locked in combat, a situation you stressed earlier was beneficial.

Second, There's enough random chance to movement in the this game that barely legal charges are a reality. If nothing else, against most opponents you'll take a mediocre charge rather than get shot up or charged yourself. If we deploy 24" apparent, and my assault marines are on the line, and your devs are on the line, if I only roll a "1" for my run move turn one that's a very different situation than if I had rolled a "6".

Good play is about minimizing the role of bad luck, but good play isn't blind to the odds. Taking a calculated risk is how draws become wins, and wins become massacres.

Ideally, you want to win in the second round of combat. In some cases, barely legal charges can occur, but usually you can avoid these through canny maneuvers. One other nice trick is that many people orient their special weapons near the front of the squad, especially if they use flamers or meltaguns-- if such a model is the closest to you, you can often fire with impunity, since most players will put the hits on basic troops. The same trick works even better with IG heavy weapon teams, especially now that they have 2 wounds.

Tri wrote:Iron priest is going to be the only thunder wolf in my army. Him and 4 cyberwolves, 155pts of fun.

Holy crap...didn't even see that. BOooya!

whitedragon wrote:

Tri wrote:Iron priest is going to be the only thunder wolf in my army. Him and 4 cyberwolves, 155pts of fun.

Holy crap...didn't even see that. BOooya!

I know he's a steal.
Base 2 attack with a thunder hammer + 1 servo arm attack
On a thunder wolf he gets +1S +1T +1A (may also make the servo arm attack rending ^_^)
Then lets add the 15pt Cyber wolves! 3 attacks each and they're all T4

So what have we got .... On the charge Iron Priest with 2+/5+ save 4 Str10 thunder hammer attacks and 1 rending servo arm attack. With 4 wolves with 16 attacks. Best of all Iron Priest isn't an IC so you can't pick him out in CC

Tri wrote:

whitedragon wrote:

Tri wrote:Iron priest is going to be the only thunder wolf in my army. Him and 4 cyberwolves, 155pts of fun.

Holy crap...didn't even see that. BOooya!

I know he's a steal.
Base 2 attack with a thunder hammer + 1 servo arm attack
On a thunder wolf he gets +1S +1T +1A (may also make the servo arm attack rending ^_^)
Then lets add the 15pt Cyber wolves! 3 attacks each and they're all T4

So what have we got .... On the charge Iron Priest with 2+/5+ save 4 Str10 thunder hammer attacks and 1 rending servo arm attack. With 4 wolves with 16 attacks. Best of all Iron Priest isn't an IC so you can't pick him out in CC

I was trying very hard to debate whether or not to add one to my army....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have a dread in drop pod a lone wolf with two wolves and a 5man wolf guard squad

kitsunez wrote:
I was trying very hard to debate whether or not to add one to my army....
I have a dread in drop pod a lone wolf with two wolves and a 5man wolf guard squad

Lone Wolf is fun but since he's on foot and only has two normal wolves ... 40pts T4 11A vs 155pts T5 21A ... only thing the lone wolf has going for him is no KP unless he's still alive.

Tri wrote:

kitsunez wrote:
I was trying very hard to debate whether or not to add one to my army....
I have a dread in drop pod a lone wolf with two wolves and a 5man wolf guard squad

Lone Wolf is fun but since he's on foot and only has two normal wolves ... 40pts T4 11A vs 155pts T5 21A ... only thing the lone wolf has going for him is no KP unless he's still alive.

unfortunately I made such a kickass model for him i dunno if i could give him up.....i guess i could if i made an even more awesome iron priest



Automatically Appended Next Post:
nvm found room...dread can take a backseat to megasaur(thunderwolf) riding iron priest with cold one(cyberwolf) guard

Tri wrote:

whitedragon wrote:

Tri wrote:Iron priest is going to be the only thunder wolf in my army. Him and 4 cyberwolves, 155pts of fun.

Holy crap...didn't even see that. BOooya!

I know he's a steal.
Base 2 attack with a thunder hammer + 1 servo arm attack
On a thunder wolf he gets +1S +1T +1A (may also make the servo arm attack rending ^_^)
Then lets add the 15pt Cyber wolves! 3 attacks each and they're all T4

So what have we got .... On the charge Iron Priest with 2+/5+ save 4 Str10 thunder hammer attacks and 1 rending servo arm attack. With 4 wolves with 16 attacks. Best of all Iron Priest isn't an IC so you can't pick him out in CC

I'm not sure if it's a good deal or not anymore. The Iron Priest is only 1 wound, and his 5+ INV is only against psychic powers. I think he ends up being compared more to a unit of wolves. The 4 cyber wolves are nice, but it turns into basically 5 1W for 155 points, vice a whole lot more wolves for half that.

whitedragon wrote:I'm not sure if it's a good deal or not anymore. The Iron Priest is only 1 wound, and his 5+ INV is only against psychic powers. I think he ends up being compared more to a unit of wolves. The 4 cyber wolves are nice, but it turns into basically 5 1W for 155 points, vice a whole lot more wolves for half that.

True but those wolves do now get a 4+ armour save.

cyber wolves vs
BS4 Bolters 24/214 11.2%
BS3 Lasgun _9/216 _4.2%

F. Wolves vs
BS4 Bolters 72/214 33.6%
BS3 Lasgun 30/216 13.9%

there nearlly 3 times as effective against small arms fire ...

No, it's all about the Lone Wolfs.

Think about this:

Lone Wolf w/ Terminator Armor, Storm Shield, Chainfist = 85 points

Having faced army lists with at least two of these, you can't underestimate them.

Lone Wolves are like Dreadnoughts for non-mech armies.

Fetterkey wrote:Lone Wolves are like Dreadnoughts for non-mech armies.

wait so you said something good about SW?

Yep. Space Wolves are, in my opinion, a strong Codex, and can also really shake things up by fielding viable no-vehicle armies, thus invalidating a lot of enemy firepower and almost automatically defeating some lists, especially those that are tooled up to fight mech. Their strengths, however, don't (IMO) lie with their basic Troops. Neither Grey Hunters or Blood Claws are particularly amazing-- Blood Claws have been seriously nerfed in the new Codex, and Grey Hunters are decent, but not great. Instead, the "special" Space Wolf things (Thunderwolves, Long Fangs, etc.) allow them to throw opponents for a loop with unexpected threats. Space Wolves, in my opinion, get better and better as they diverge more and more from the "standard" Marine template-- just as Marines get better and better as they rely on their own unique tricks instead of the more generic options.