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Redbeard wrote:You know, I have no issues with extra laws or costs for the obese.

As an overweight person, I don't either. If you're willing to engage is risky behavior, then you need to be willing to pay the associated costs.

And personally, I'd much rather have a heart attack than have some meddling two-bit government employee telling me to be thin!

paulguise wrote:It seems somewhat obvious to me that some Americans need a kick in the crotch in order to start eating better or exercising more. Usually that kick is a heart attack, a stroke, or developing diabetes.

So it comes down to this: do you want the government to tell you to start eating better/exercising, or do you want to wait for the heart attack to hit and very possibly be fatal?

I reject your reality and insert option 3: I'll take care of myself and government leaves me the hell alone.

note the difference is, under the plan I HAVE to have insurance. There will no longer be a voluntary situation here.

paulguise wrote:It seems somewhat obvious to me that some Americans need a kick in the crotch in order to start eating better or exercising more. Usually that kick is a heart attack, a stroke, or developing diabetes.

So it comes down to this: do you want the government to tell you to start eating better/exercising, or do you want to wait for the heart attack to hit and very possibly be fatal?

Most Europeans I see at parties and out around here in the U.S. seem to have no problem diving into chomping down when they're here. I remember in particular a German woman that was lecturing me how badly people in the U.S. eat while we were at a party. She was beating everyone else in the room 2 for 1 with the amount of food she was downing, then wanted to go bar hopping. She was dang cute, though.

Special occasion vs. every day habit.

Not saying there aren't fat Europeans, though as I understand it the price of food makes it harder over there, just saying you can't always judge behavior as hypocritical without considering the situation.

dogma wrote:Special occasion vs. every day habit.

Not saying there aren't fat Europeans, though as I understand it the price of food makes it harder over there, just saying you can't always judge behavior as hypocritical without considering the situation.

Not really. These were students here in the U.S. and their eating habits were pretty close to people from around here.
The people I noticed that ate the best were the Koreans and Japanese I hung out with. I don't remember seeing them eat a whole lot of fast food or junk.

If what I've been told is true, I do agree about the price of food angle. A friend of mine was in Ireland a few times and said the price of a coke and the food that goes with it is pretty much up there. He raved about the country though. Said it was a beautiful place with great people.

My brother was in France a few times with his family and found junk food expesive there, also.

paulguise wrote:So it comes down to this: do you want the government to tell you to start eating better/exercising, or do you want to wait for the heart attack to hit and very possibly be fatal?

Well, let's ask two people:

Someone Who is Unhealthy: I would rather keep doing what I have chosen to do for the last thirty years. That's why I've chosen to do it. The health effects of my lifestyle are well known, but since I have continued to live the way I do it's clear that this is less important to me than it may be to others.

Someone Who is Healthy: The question is a false dichotomy for me.

youngblood wrote:

Fateweaver wrote:

youngblood wrote:One problem that I see here is that most people that are lower income can't afford to eat healthy. Processed foods are much cheaper than organic, so by making someone's insurance cost more due to weight issues only perpetuates the problem. More money spent on health insurance = less money spent on some what healthy food.

Another issue: stop persecuting the damn smokers!

Oh poor smokers. Choose to start doing something unhealthy and dumb even though the warning signs have been in place for what now? 50+ years? and you get all aggrieved when people don't feel sorry for you. 100 years ago I could see not knowing the dangers as even then doctors didn't know the dangers. Ever since they put warning labels on cigs there is not one good reason for people to start up smoking. Peer pressure =/= an excuse to start; stress =/= a reason to start; health factors = a reason to stay away. Yet people start up every day. I'm glad cigs doubled in price (at least in this State) and I'd love for the state of Mn to jack cigs up to about $8 a pack for generics and use the money to fix the roads or build a new stadium for the Vikings football team. So forgive me if I don't feel sorry for someone starting something that that person had total control of NOT to start doing.

Drinking radiator coolant isn't good for your health either and it clearly says so on the jugs so I'm not going to feel sympathy for someone who decides it is in their best interest somehow to start drinking it.

If people want to smoke a cigarette, they should be able to do so. Pursuit of happiness. Cigarette smokers are becoming a persecuted bunch here. I'm not saying a smoker's health insurance shouldn't be obscene, I'm just tired of seeing smokers getting pushed around. Our president is hooked for lordy's goodness gracious sakes


and take this!

Damn smokers need to get over their so called "persecution". Finally the shoe is on the other foot (where Rights are concerned) and smokers don't like it. I've never smoked but for as long as I've been old enough to go into bars or restaurants or even the goddamn shopping mall I've had to endure someone else' filthy, dirty habit. Hah, now the shoe is on the other foot. I'm in a smoke free county and I always get amused when some smoker tells me it's not fair he has to stand outside in -50F temps to smoke because he can't light up in the bar. At least he can go outside to smoke. Until last year if I wanted to go to a bar I had to endure it as it's against the city ordinance to drink alcohol in the streets and sidewalks so if I wanted fresh air I had to leave my drink unattended (not smart for many reasons) just to go suck in a lungful or two of clean air.

Persecution my ass. Don't like feeling persecuted put the damn cigarettes down and try allowing your lungs to taste clean air.

Stress is a cop-out. I've undergone lots of stress in the amount of time I've been allowed to smoke and not once have I felt the urge to light up a cigarette even though 99% of my friends say it helps them deal with stress. I had an ex who used the same BS line. I relieve stress by reading a book or sitting down and slapping some paint on one of my many 40k armies.

So again, spare me the "persecution/my Rights are being violated" line. NS Rights have been violated for years just to make smokers happy. Feth that.

Wait, how do you have rights to the bar? Are you its partial owner or something?

The price of food makes it harder here too.

Here's the difference. Over there, you can get good food at high prices, or junk food at high prices.

Over here, you can get good food at high prices, or junk food at low prices.

Many obese people are at, or below, the poverty line. Often, they have families to feed, and no time to cook as they work long hours. They go to McDonalds because it is fast and cheap. It also contains a lot of empty calories. Many obese people in the US are also suffering from malnutrition, as the food they eat contains calories and fats, but no nutrients.

The food lobbies, especially junk food producers like Frito-Lay, Coke/Pepsi, McDonalds, and the like, are against raising taxes on High Fructose Corn Syrup - which would do a lot to bring the cost of junk food in line with the cost of real food. There's no easy fix, unfortunately.

I think Pepsi owns Frito-Lay.

Orkeosaurus wrote:Wait, how do you have rights to the bar? Are you its partial owner or something?

Not sure I follow. I have rights to go to a bar as a taxpaying citizen of my city and as I'm of age and it's a public place. I think you are misunderstanding me. Smokers have a right to go to bars but now if they want to smoke they must step outside. I used to have to do that if I wanted to get in a lungful of clean air. Now I can get my lungful of clean air and drink and the smokers can still do the same, they just have to step outside for 5 minutes (or not as they can quit if they don't like risking frostbite to take 7 minutes off their life).

So I'm confused but I think it's because you are confused by something I said or err...something. I reread my post and I don't recall saying I have rights to go to a bar.

I meant the rights to decide the bar's policy on smoking inside it. The bar owners were fine with people smoking inside it, weren't they?

It seems like focusing on the smokers as having crossed you is kind of missing the target, in that case. There are plenty of establishments that have prohibitions against smoking, and for a good reason (as there are many people who dislike smoke).

I have no problem with this proposed legislature. I know it won't go far, but I have my hopes.

Relapse wrote:
Not really. These were students here in the U.S. and their eating habits were pretty close to people from around here.
The people I noticed that ate the best were the Koreans and Japanese I hung out with. I don't remember seeing them eat a whole lot of fast food or junk.

Eating habits in terms of what was eaten, or eating habits in terms of the amount of food consumed?

My school was something on the order of 40% international, and its been my experience that any given international student has roughly the same diet as his American counterparts, but that said diet involves far smaller portions. For example, we would go to McDonalds after a night out and the American students would order 3 cheeseburgers, while the internationals ordered 1.

dogma wrote:Eating habits in terms of what was eaten, or eating habits in terms of the amount of food consumed?

My school was something on the order of 40% international, and its been my experience that any given international student has roughly the same diet as his American counterparts, but that said diet involves far smaller portions. For example, we would go to McDonalds after a night out and the American students would order 3 cheeseburgers, while the internationals ordered 1.

Both, but in all fairness, I've never seen anyone from any country sit down to three burgers. Were these people beyond huge or what?

Orkeosaurus wrote:I meant the rights to decide the bar's policy on smoking inside it. The bar owners were fine with people smoking inside it, weren't they?

It seems like focusing on the smokers as having crossed you is kind of missing the target, in that case. There are plenty of establishments that have prohibitions against smoking, and for a good reason (as there are many people who dislike smoke).

Up until last year bars/clubs/restaurants in the State of Mn had the choice to allow smoking or not; most did. I do believe it was last year or maybe the year before all of Mn became smoke free in public. Have to be at least 10 feet from all open doors/windows if you want to smoke in front of any public building; bars, clubs, restaurants, shopping malls, etc...

So yeah, up until the no smoking ordinance went through in Mn I had the right to not go to a bar or nightclub but if I elected to go I had to put up with being in the same building as 150+ other smokers. Not very fun or healthy being a non-smoker myself. Now the shoe is on the other foot and smokers are pissed off. Good. Don't like having to risk frostbite (and yes it does get cold enough in Mn that frostbite can set in in less time than it takes to smoke a cigarette) than stop smoking so you don't have to freeze, or curb your habit. Needing a cigarette every hour on the hour is just an excuse to feed an addiction.



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Relapse wrote:

dogma wrote:Eating habits in terms of what was eaten, or eating habits in terms of the amount of food consumed?

My school was something on the order of 40% international, and its been my experience that any given international student has roughly the same diet as his American counterparts, but that said diet involves far smaller portions. For example, we would go to McDonalds after a night out and the American students would order 3 cheeseburgers, while the internationals ordered 1.

Both, but in all fairness, I've never seen anyone from any country sit down to three burgers. Were these people beyond huge or what?

I can see eating 3 McD's cheeseburgers. If we are talking the normal value menu burgers it would take 3 to equal the amount of hamburger that most meat loving grillers make. Them bastards (McD's burgers) are tiny.

I think smoking should be illegal in all public indoor buildings. Non-smokers (and children in particular) should not have to put up with your cancer-clouds.

What's funny is seeing doctors, nurses, cardiologists, pediatricians standing outside the clinic and hospital smoking.

You think if you worked somewhere that pounded it into your head everyday through the various posters spread around, and the fact that part of your job is treating people with smoking related illness, that you would be not inclined to smoke. Just saying.

Makes as much sense as a vegan working in a slaughter house. If you are going to tell patients with bronchitis that they should stop smoking, perhaps you should stop being a hypocrite and take your own advice (whether you yourself have it or not).

I really don't see the point of smoking, though. People say it's pleasurable, but it tastes and smells awful, and I don't see how filling your lungs with tar and carcinogens is worth it.

Because CE we didn't start up due to loads of stress or peer pressure or just plain stupidity.

Apparently doing something that tastes and smells awful and that apparently will kill you, is not as important as looking cool or relieving stress.

Oh yeah, the Federal Government also owes people who choose to start smoking on their own huge sums of money. Gotta love the fact Joe Dumbass started smoking to relieve stress, gets lung cancer 20 years later and then feels entitled to be one of thousands of smokers suing "Big Tobacco" in a C.A lawsuit and getting a nice lump sum of $3M dollars as settlement for stupidity. Pain and suffering my ass, you brought it onto yourself Joe.

Im confused. did the bill get passed. most of the people i know dont get it. it passed threw the finance commitee but no the senate? help

Relapse wrote:
Both, but in all fairness, I've never seen anyone from any country sit down to three burgers. Were these people beyond huge or what?

Nah, athletes. Drunk athletes.


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Fateweaver wrote:
I can see eating 3 McD's cheeseburgers. If we are talking the normal value menu burgers it would take 3 to equal the amount of hamburger that most meat loving grillers make. Them bastards (McD's burgers) are tiny.

They were generally doubles, the McDs burger of choice. That's nothing though. Me and my buddy Sid (5'9 135 Indian kid) used to go through entire XL pizzas when drunk.

Yeah, the good old days of late night drunk runs to Perkins. Usually involved 4 pots of coffee, chicken melts, fries, omelets and harassing the waitress.

Probably explains why I was sick as hell the following day.

When drunk, all chomping bets are off! It seemed back in my younger days when I drank, the ritual was a diner, munchies, and brawl in the parking lot to help the booze settle properly.

Why do we american hate fat people and smokers so much?

Most smokers I know think they have more rights than I do and fat people make elevator rides unsafe.

Fateweaver wrote:Yeah, the good old days of late night drunk runs to Perkins. Usually involved 4 pots of coffee, chicken melts, fries, omelets and harassing the waitress.

Probably explains why I was sick as hell the following day.

Appetizer sampler or you did it wrong


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Relapse wrote:When drunk, all chomping bets are off! It seemed back in my younger days when I drank, the ritual was a diner, munchies, and brawl in the parking lot to help the booze settle properly.

I swear that what made me sick in college was the food I ate before bed, not the booze that proceeded it. XL 5 meat pizzas do not rest well.

There might have been some sampler stuff going on as well. I just remember the chicken tender melt and 4 pots of coffee (all 4 by myself).

Ugh, I don't think I could handle those types of nights anymore 12 years later.

Dude, I remember being able to go on week-long benders in college. Could never do that now, and that's only a year after the fact. Though that may have something to do with the absence of my support crew (3 Indian guys who did not know what the word moderation meant).

Edit: I'll see your 4 pots of coffee and raise you a case of Red Bull.

I have to thank you guys for giving me a chuckle in helping me remember my early 20's and the stuff I did. How the heck my body held up I have no idea.