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Here

Shas commander w/ missile pod , positional relay


Shas team one x 3 , plasma , fusion gun , multi tracker

shas team 2 x 3 Twin Missile Pod , target lock

Shas team 3 x 3 Twin Missile Pod , target lock
Troops

Kroot w/ Hounds 20

10 Kroot that is it

Just keep them off board or infiltrate them into some woods / cover keep going to ground with them. If needed charge.


fast Attack
Pathfinders x 6 w/ Devilfish ( put the kroot in that)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kroot are dirt cheap warriors that you can keep off the board with positional to protect them for late game rush and grabs or infiltrate into cover.

12 ST7 missile pods w/ devastate most light armour including a defiler.

Put the Plasma gun / fusion in reserve to deep strike on turn to and smoke a squad.


you get to reroll because of Pathfinders Devilfish. The devilfish gives you a transport or scoring unit for a 10 man Kroot Squad.


Kroot have volume of numbers when it comes to fighting in Hand To hand.

Sure some may day but who cares.

10 Kroot and 10 hounds on a charge is 60 attacks you also go way before the plaguemarines.


They have toughness five and feel no pain so what. Dont discount charging them regardless people will math hammer and say OH and ten man squad with 9 attacks and 2 powerfist attacks that hit on a 4+ plus etc....


The fact is your throwing more dice you may get lucky you may not.


Also I am not at home I think that may actually be some points less than a 1000 points.

I gotta be honest, I play PM's and I beat gunline tau in my sleep. I'm not sure I've ever lost to stand and shoot. Most times I see myself making mistakes or just getting tactically lazy. Biggest mistakes they've made...

1. Nothing gets in my way. Gun line armies never make any attempt to slow down an attacker. Sure sometimes you throw out something close to slow us down, but usually it gets charged and actually ADDs to my speed. Every time I have to run around an obstacle it slows me down. Sure I get cover, but do FW's really care? Lure me into moving around/through some pinch points and park a devil fish on it. Sure I might get a free charge, but it's gonna take me twice as long to walk around your free terrain piece. Every vehicle you have has a second purpose, terrain. If you get to my flank and tank shock across the front 4 inches of a foot slogging unit, you either break them/kill them or push them back 4 inches. Even a tank parked right down the center of a unit means the unit has to walk all the way around to one side. Sure they might shoot you, but if they had good odds of that they wouldn't be running at you.

2. They already said it, but focus fire. Kill what gets to you fastest. Slow down what you can and kill what you can't slow down. Pour everything you have into your top priority. The reason not to shoot at the priority is LOS.

3. Let's get really close! I've never played a gun line, but what is the advantage to standing on the 12'' line like I do? Get somewhere off that line, it might cost some shots but I won't get that turn 2/3 charge. And while we're pulling off the line, are you prepared for me? Accept that I'm going to get there, and think about who is in position to take that hit. Can you give them up? What happens after that? Assault armies have gotten better at planning the phase to end in their favor, so place units accepting that they'll be charging again. Can you get your units moved to fire on them once they move? Can you drive another piece of terrain in their way?

I got on a rant and just didn't stop. Sorry if that went long but I think it's been building against my gun line friends for awhile now.

^
NO!

Pathfinder squad with markerlights. Use the fish for fire warriors. Use the positional relay on the fish to guide your suicide suits in. (TL fusion + flamer, TL flamer + fusionfor wound allocation.)

Two suicide squads and a solid fireknife squad with a shas'o will be all of the suits you need.

2 broadsides and a railhead for your heavies. Finish out your points with fire warriors. Broadsides kill the defiler if he is on the board turn 1 and the railhead (and broadsides if the defiler is in reserve) hit the transports.

Deepstrike the suicide suits in and finish any armor and oblits, doing the JsJ with your fireknives to stay well out of range of the marines.

Once the armor is gone, use the pathfinders on a squad of marines at a time and hit them with everything. Rinse and repeat, making sure to stay as far back as possible - jump, shoot, jump.

Hit his jump pack lord with the broadsides and railheads as well as the fireknives and he will die fast. He can move 12" plus run, not jump run jump. Try to coerce him into chasing your fireknives into a position to dismount your firewarriors and rapid fire him with 2 squads if necessary - as long as the defiler is dead.

With hgood tactics and careful movement, you should be able to give a respectable fight.

Oh yeah get some Kroot Hounds for CC, they like to eat the meatz!

Um...kroot hounds for combat...
Please don't rely on that.

Use kroot hounds to up numbers and take bullets for kroot holding objectives.

Hounds don't offer a whole lot offensively. Sure they go first in combat, but it's unlikely they will do anything.
In addition, Kroot in combat is generally an unhealthy thing for them.

I hate to say it but Dont bother trying to beat Plague Marines in HTH With anything tau.

T5 and Feel no pain with a 3+ save means you have a 1/72 chance to cause 1 unsaved wound that fails feel no pain per attack at strength 3 versus toughness 5 3+save /FnP. So if you pretend dice have a "memory" you need 72 attacks to kill 1 plague marine, which is 24 kroot on the charge.

Even if you charge them they are going to attack back and kill more than 1 wound of kroot so you also just lost the hand to hand assault most likely.

kroot might be str4, its been a long time since I used kroot, in which case the chance to kill a plague marine changes to 1/36, which would be 12 charging kroot to kill 1. Which is still pretty bad.

Of course dice don't have memory and things happen but statistically you lose throwing kroot at plague marines.

Thats a waste of points.

if you really need a disposable speed bump unit instead of kroot use small squads of fire warriors with pulse carbines, yes pulse carbines. No squad leader, no upgrades. Or use gun drones if you have leftover Fast attack slots, or even just the drones from a devilfish, advance along a flank and try and pull the hand to hand to the side instead of forward, it will cost the plague marines a turn or two of movement if done decently.

Your math is wrong Kroot and Kroot hounds have a STR4 not 3. That said its not a terrible thing to do.


STOP USING FIREWARRIORS. There really really isnt a reason to use a mechanized fire warrior squad you are paying 180 points for a "scoring" vehicle.


Its just stupid.


As I said you can use positional relay to Deepstrike fusion/plasma guys in on turn 2 put a Kroot squad which is cheaper ina Devilfish from the pathfinders.

Use Missile pods to take out Light Armor etc..


Just stop using fire warriors and do not buy a upgrade full 10 man squad w/ markerlight. UGH. Stop it.

You can do the Farsight bomb, but its very dangerous. You can scatter off the table, or onto mishap chart. Remember your droping 9 suits plus drones. Understand i think that build might work, but I find that letting enemy come to you and taking assaults away form them is the best.

Thats what i use my devilfish drones and my piranhas and piranhas' drones to create a wall that your opponent assault through. Further more giving piranhas flechette dischargers and always moving them at flat out. Will take out a lot of stuff. Not on your turn and slow your opponent down, if not stop him all together.

I just set up an uber gunline with suits,FW/rifles, and hammerheads and that usually destroys everything. I have fought white scars, blood ravens, mech marine, vanilla marines, necrons, orks, and daemons, and I have either tabled my opponent,won, or tied, when I really played poorly.

Oddly the most trouble I have had has come from necrons, when i tied my opponent, regrettably I didn't play well that game, but the deep striking around was frustrating, we also had a lot of buildings that blocked line of sight, and ended up only running 3 turns because of time.

Alright. Don't try to beat Nurgle in close combat. How does he keep killing you? You said close combat, right? You are going to need to take a combined approach, that leans towards shooting rather than melee. You'll need some kroot, loaded up with plenty of hounds. You'll also need some deathrain crisis suits (TL misslepods and either TA or flamer). And you'll need to set up some FoF squads.
The key to a strategy like this is keeping your army working in concert, everything well coordinated and effective. I know this is hard for new players, but that's how you play Tau, and it's how you get better.
You'll want to use the deathrains to pop his rhinos, as many as you can to slow his advance. Use the Railguns not on his troops but on his spider-bot and his daemon. Concentrate all your troops on one unit at a time. Pick a target, pop it's rhino, FoF it, and assault what's left with the kroot.

FoF squads?
Fish of Fury with what? Fire Warriors?
I don't think anyone does that any more in more competititve environments.

Combine arms is good, and Fire Warriors will clean up/kill 1-2, but arn't they far too expensive for what you get, and yet suffer a bit against PM's in terms of killing them.

Deathrains are Ace. Target Rhinos, watch them die...cover/smokes can be annoying, but they are very consistant weapons against AV10/11 vehicles.

Why railguns on troops?
You mean submunissions... other than to make him roll lots of dice, it's not something to rely on/he'll laugh off the submunition round.

I wouldn't charge kroot into anything that's left after you've focused fire on stuff.
SHOOT with the kroot, it's much more healthier for them.

So far my best luck has been with using fireknifes against the PMs, deathrains for volume of fire annoyance, and broadsides and HHs for the hardpoints.

It really seems a waste to use broadsides against a unit of PMs but it is an insta-kill...I do that after I knock out the rhinos, dreads, and defilers.

He charged his prince into a unit of broadsides and they just tied him up for 3 rounds; man they're tough.

Well...with shield drones right?
Cause Broadsides are not that hard to hit and wound...

But all suits are compitent defensively in combat and the str 5 can be a suprising factor for some people.

Sanctjud wrote:Well...with shield drones right?
Cause Broadsides are not that hard to hit and wound...

But all suits are compitent defensively in combat and the str 5 can be a suprising factor for some people.

Yep, gotta love the shield drones.

Sanctjud wrote:FoF squads?
Fish of Fury with what? Fire Warriors?
I don't think anyone does that any more in more competititve environments.

Combine arms is good, and Fire Warriors will clean up/kill 1-2, but arn't they far too expensive for what you get, and yet suffer a bit against PM's in terms of killing them.

Imo, FoF still works. At the very least, it's a mobile FW squad, and it's an easy way to get them into their effective rapid-fire range. I don't have very much experience against Nurgle, so in the end, I'll deffer to you, but I've had to come up with some solutions to my friend's death company. I've had luck with FoF then kroot assault, and I've also had some luck combining FoF with TL flamer crisis suits. Since you recommended not assaulting with the kroot, it's worth mentioning that Death Company have Furious Charge, so I usually assault them with kroot because it's usually better to assault them before they assault me. This may or may not be the case with Plague Marines.

-My 7 cents. Now you have 14 cents.

Well... it really makes little difference to the kroot.
Whether they assault or get assaulted, In my experience they wither away.

Double tapping with shooting to put down the offenders is so much more healthier.

You get one less attack, but you still get (10 man squad) 20 shots...with the same likelihood of hitting, wounding.

Should you go into combat, you are I3, so he gets to hit first.

Lets say 5 are left. 10 Attacks, 5 hit, 1 rend, 4 x 2/3 will most likely be 2 more deaths.
So you've lost 3, that's 12 attacks down.

Now you have less possible damage, coupled with the possibility of losing combat, and losing everyone.

Now, adding hounds is a GOOD thing in this situation... lets say 5 hounds? right that's allowed.
15 attacks on the charge, 7 hits, 3.5 wounds .55 wounds after saves...lets say one dies...that should bring it down to 2 ish wounds.

etc.... I actually don't want to continue this little isolated situation as it's not entirely realistic I guess.

/shrug... I'm not sure what other way I could support the issue that Kroot would be better off shooting than assaulting.
At least in cover you have a better save and can reach out and touch someone with essentially bolter equivalents.
In addition, you won't give the opponent the chance to drop the kroot in a combat phase and move D6 closer to your lines.
In addition if you charge out... there's the possibility of being in the open if the consolidate move is not enough.

__________

Yes, things change when it's vs. plague marines.
Tau still down them... but in my experience... it's been infuriating for Tau players sometimes.

Ah I also have felt pain at the hands of the plague marines.

My two shillings:

Keep troops in transports (and maybe also in reserve), only use fish of fury if the target squad doesn't have FNP. I think his chaos daemon prince doesn't get FNP so fish of fury could work against him, but not against plague marines.

Stick with the fusion plasma suits as they are the only decent thing the Tau have for nugle marines. A command squad has 12 high strength shots that laugh at FNP for 280pts. Sniper drones might be worth a look as well. Block him, run away from him, until your broadside(s) pop his transports. Then extinguish the plague marines with your suits.

Well... it's not hard to try and stick to cover vs. close range plasma... in which case Marker Lights come in handy.

Played tau for the first time this weekend so forgive me for sillyness.

but what do you guys think about dropping gundrones behind his lines? he can't escape them, if he wants to clobber them he has to turn around and walk back, losing a turns worth of time, and they can drop a pretty good hail of firepower for the points.

Depends on the mission.
If it's kill points....maybe not.

If it's objectives, it depends.
If they are near an objective, it's most likely that there will be a 'stand and shoot' infantry choice on the objective, able to reach out and kill them, without a forward unit moving backwards.

If they are away away, then go ahead and and plaster them.
I'm sure the opponent won't mind them, but every shot counts for the Tau player.

I've actually come to believe Orks are more effective vs. nurgle marines than Tau are. Even greater volume of fire and decent close combat choices.

@agnosto:
What does that have to do with my quote?

As for orks, it depends as well.
If you can get the charge off they will do well enough, but if they are charged and lose the Furious Charge benefit, it's a downhill climb unless the Claw rolls like a beast.

But wasn't this about your Tau?

I am sorry I can't help you much but taking out the Rhinos is a good idea, but I think the weapons you are using to do so aren't very good for the job.

I don't really know anything about Tau, but you need some heavy weapons going up against Rhinos/vehicles.
Try to keep your heavy weapons or whatever in cover so as to avoid Ye Olde Battlecannon. Other than that, just get a feel for what works for you in your army list. Tau IS one of t hardest armies to play, right behind Eldar, so it will take a fair few times in play to find what works as a good strategy and loadout.

Sanctjud wrote:@agnosto:
What does that have to do with my quote?

As for orks, it depends as well.
If you can get the charge off they will do well enough, but if they are charged and lose the Furious Charge benefit, it's a downhill climb unless the Claw rolls like a beast.

But wasn't this about your Tau?

It doesn't I just clicked quote instead of adding my comment at the bottom; I'll fix it, wasn't paying attention.

Yeah and having seen a game recently of Ork vs. Nurgle, that's where my half-baked comment came from.

Nurgle is a nasty army to be sure. I've had to deal with their ridiculousness at being able to just sit and take it. However the Tau codex gives you plentiful weapons to take those who oppose you. Battlesuits are most certainly your friends, Plasma Rifles can cut into those Nurgle buggers, wounding them on a 3+ and denying any saves other then cover. I am a big fan of Battlesuits, so I would take as many as is possible. If you are having trouble with transports, why not meet them with Piranhas armed with fusion blasters? They are fast and skimmers so can move much faster then rhinos. The Fusion blaster will eat through the rhino, and after the vehicles are done they can just as easily blast marines and once again deny their armor and feel no pain. As mentioned by others, a few markerlights can reduce the cover saves. Its important to avoid trying to shoot everything, simply focus on one unit, and focus fire. Once a unit is eradicated then move on to another.

Like others have said, you need low AP, high ST weapons. Stuff that 'aint cheap in the Tau codex. If you have a couple Broadsides, buy the twin-linked plasma along with a multi-tracker for each suit. Not only is this the cheapest way to get plasma in the Codex, but it's twin-linked to boot, and you can fire both with the Multi-Tracker.

That being said, check out a post I made at ATT on the most efficiend Helios builds (PR, FB, MT): linky.

Obviously, the mathhammer is set up for Toughness 4, but it all still applies.

i just have 1 thing to say....everyone keeps saying use pathfinders w/ markerlights.....why not try some stealth suits with a markerlight upgrade?...i just started using tau myself, but i find it alot more effective, them having relentless an all....first off, they can move there 6". second, on the off-chance they miss, they can move 6" away, wait until there turn again, and wash rinse repeat. the ONLY thing you have to worry about is them having some frag grenades, which will null invoid ur auto cover (it happened against captain killjoy's SM's....lucky bastards) oh yeah....upgrade the team, bond them, and give the leader a fusion blaster....if things get a little too close for comfort, MELTA THEM!!!!

Why pathfinders?
Because they are more economical.

24 pts. per 2 markers light rather than (what?) 70 pts. per 2 markers.
In addition, you can get a higher maximum number of marker lights.

The range means setting up in cover which is good.
The mandatory Fish is not so bad when a 6 man FW team can jump on in after the game starts.

And it takes up a FA slot instead of the much important Elite Slot.

well, why not get some marker drones as well? they'd have relentless as well being with the stealth team....i run 3 stealth suits: 1 upgraded to shas'vre with the fusion blaster and the markerlight, and the other 2 have the marker drones and they are bonded....they may be expensive, but they're much more versitile. all they have to do is pop markerlights for 2-3 turns, then they sit back and watch my hammerhead blow everything up!!!

for those of you that dont know i am a tau player and my strategy is basiclly this:

evenly spread out the forces a much as possible keep the hammerhead away from enemy units with high strength weapons. flank the hammerhead with the FW charge the crisis suits into the enemy but firing as much as possible. keep stealth suits in reserve and use outflank on turn two to get behind his vehicles (im not sure if this works for other people because i have a full squad of stealth suits with TA and only one crisis suit which would be farsight)

@shas'o vera
Meh.
Spreading out is not always an option, esp. against faster lists.
And keeping the HH away from enemy fire is...unlikely.

Wait...so you only have one crisis suit? And yet suggested to

charge the crisis suits

I'm sure you meant to say "charge the crisis suit" that is Farsight, into combat, while shooting.

Otherwise, I do like the idea of outflanking Stealth Suits, but they just seem really meh overall.