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I'm planning a AT-43 event at Total Con 2010 in Feb. Ive submitted my request for prize support and got a fast response I'm not getting any signs of Rackham leaving anytime soon from my end. I was really hoping this post would be focused on how cool the new models are and even how adaptable they would be for so many other games I'm thinking this new box army may be very popular to more than the AT-43 fan!

Saint Anuman wrote:I'm planning a AT-43 event at Total Con 2010 in Feb. Ive submitted my request for prize support and got a fast response

Lucky you. I asked for Prize Support to run an ONI release tournament and have yet to hear anything, positive, negative or neutral.

LunaHound wrote:

Orlanth wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

Orlanth wrote:However if worst comes to worst and AT-43 is orphaned there is enough of a community for an AT-44 fanfix. The game has so much potential it wont be allowed to die.

The best thing to do if it happens is to probably get a group together to put out a fan-made "2nd Edition" for free on the internet. New Terrain rules, new custom units, fix some of the translation problems, etc.

I have been thinking of exactly this, when time comes would you like to playtest?

I thought Cairnius have made one and was almost completed 2 months ago?
i have been waiting to how that went.

On a side note ,
I dived into AT-43 for the miniatures / models . If RE dies one day ,
it doesnt effect me one bit ( no rage from me , only sadness if i cant get anymore
nicely designed minis in the future )

And when ONI comes out , thats when i'll start my Space Marine army aswell .

Cairnius made new terrain rules, I have other things, including my own terrain rules which are similar but different.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Strahd wrote:

IMHO, a game dies the second you can no longer purchase it in stores.

I think that is very much in your own humble opinion, but to each his own, and I mean that with no disrespect. I have a mountain of old games, long discontinued, considered defunct or forgotten by many, which I still play. I have a family and a group of friends that I play with, and for us the playing is the thing, rather than how current the rule-set is. If a game is fun, it should retain its charms even in isolation, as long as the players are enjoying it.

I have said before that I play a variety of games, so I do not particularly understand the militancy with people align themselves to one system or other. If nobody wants to use a particular rule-set with the figures, then there is nothing stopping people from trying another. I have personally developed a loathing for most GW miniatures and rules, but that is a case of over-exposure over a very long period, and if somebody suggests using other rules for my old grey-painted marines, I'm happy to try it.
I've been playing Heroquest (if anybody remembers it) for the past twenty years, and it's still popular with my gang, from the adults down to the children.

As I have already pointed out the ONI sculpts are very versatile, so even if AT-43 fizzles out, I still believe that the actual models themselves will still be popular. And as has been mentioned previously, fans may continue it on; you'll never have consensus on further rules development (which it does need), but you cannot even get that now for most "official" rule-systems.

I acknowledge that every group is different, so as I said, to each their own.

Cairnius does have a point. I loved Renegade Legion and Kryomek, however they have completely disappeared, no sales, no coverage, no playtime. Mongoose is doing a work on restoring old games and is a likely candidate for official continuency.

One the other hand I still play Chaosium era Runequest and that has been dead since '85.

I really should start this with saying "Thank you" to St. Anuman for all the information he has given us.

We do not yet know how the Army Boxes will affect the fortunes of RE, so most of our pronouncements are very premature. We'll see as time goes on.

Cairnius does have a point.

I'm absolutely not disputing this and in fact I agree with most of what both he and Orlanth said, but I believe that if a system works then it should ensure its own continued existence, whether official or not.

I am probably going beyond the bounds of just talking about AT-43 now, but it is strange to me how susceptible people are to hype and its negative equivalent. If a person owns an lovingly painted, painstakingly converted army of models and a company suddenly tells them that it is no longer acceptable, how would one react? If a person has spent a full week's wages on pre-painted models they wanted and the company closes its doors, how would one react? It's a game, you should enjoy it or not, and this should seem quite apparent fairly soon into it or you should find an alternative. It seems to me to be absurd to buy into something and then accept or discard it because a profit-driven company tells you to. Yes, I know all companies are profit driven..., but if you like the models enough, you should be able to find a use for them.

I like AT-43 as it is, rules vagueness and all, but particularly for its models, so I honestly hope it continues.

And as has already been said, the ONI seem to be a good horse to back.

When I was a Sentinel, I suggested that all of us should work on a "Rulebook 1.5" which would take the existing rules, then take all the FAQs and rules answers from Rackham and incorporate them into the formal rulebook - in other words, you would no longer have to refer to FAQs for rules clarifications but would have clarified and re-worded actual, official rules such that you could do what you can do with most games and refer to the rulebook for answers during games.

The idea was pretty roundly shot down by the Sentinels, which was the main reason I left the program. If the hardcore, top-dog supporters of AT-43 really thought that "everything was fine just the way it was" I felt they had some serious blinders on. Extreme fandom can either inspire enthusiastic action to supplement like with Tracy's "AT-43 the Comic" and recent Frostbite campaign, or Nazghul's "Easy AT-43" software, or Universalhead's AT-43 cards to provide things we don't have like the Nimit-Urash and Hetman cards, or even Ob's F.A.Q. which collects all the errata and rules corrections into one place - or extreme fandom can lead to just cheerleading and ignoring what problems may exist.

Unfortunately, production of a Rulebook 1.5 was not something I could attempt alone...I don't know how to do professional-quality page layouts to make a polished-looking product. I could easily compile FAQ information and WRITE a Rulebook 1.5, but that's as much as I could do - content production.

Just be aware that the idea of fan-made, new rules edition has been around for a while, and the support for it in the AT-43 community was not present. Many people feel it is not the place of the fans to attempt such a project...and be prepared to be accused of "Thinking you're a Messiah" for suggesting the value of such a project. It was when I received this comment from a Sentinel that I had to just shake my head and walk away. Some stupidity can't be answered.


In terms of what it means for a game to "die," I suppose that depends on what it means for a game to "live." A living game, IMHO, is a game that is growing or a game that is in constant production. New models, new rules supplements, or just always being on store shelves and selling. This is a living game, a game that is still relevant to the industry, that controls a market share.

"Living" or "Dead," to me, has nothing to do with how many people are playing a game. Again, IMHO. I, personally, find it difficult to maintain enthusiasm about a game when its following has been reduced to cult status in little knots around the world. Rather, I can get excited about games that I can play anywhere, anytime IF they are good games. Just had to add that caveat because I can play 40K pretty much anywhere but aren't very enthusiastic about it anymore because I don't think the game is all that great.