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AG09 wrote:

Lt Lathrop wrote:the odds say that your plasma gun will kill himself by or before turn 3.

This may be true (how did you arrive there, though)...

Rapid fire = 2 shots per turn = 2/6 chance to kill yourself, x3 turns = 6/6 = 1 = 100% chance to die by turn 3. This is not including the saves you apply. It doesn't really matter, because odds dictate that you are more likely to suffer that wound prior to turn 3... and that the less than 50% chance to save will likely just be a failed save.

That's, er, not really true. Essentially each shot a plasma gun fires gives a 1/9 chance to fry the user. (1/6 chance to overheat, 2/3 chance to fail armour save) And it's not as if you're usually within 12" of the enemy on your first turn. In addition, the BiD order greatly reduces the likelihood of overheats (1/36 chance to reroll a one) to 1/54 per shot.

It's ridiculous to say that a plasma gunner WILL kill himself. Probability doesn't work that way. A plasma gunner who fires 9 shots, each of which carries a 1/9 probability of death is officially bloody likely to kill himself. (Chance of survival 8/9*8/9*8/9*8/9*8/9*8/9*8/9*8/9*8/9, which I can't be bothered to work out) But that is not the same thing as 100% probability. Nothing that depends on successive dice rolls is 100% probability. Over the course of an active game, in which no-one on the other side kills him, a plasma gunner has a very high chance of dying. But it ain't certain, not by a long shot.

A 5+ Save plasma gunner has a litter better than 1/3 chance of survival after 9 shots. Not that certain a death sentence.

I hate percents. My roommate saw this tread and bitched me out for not knowing how to do probabilities.

I am under the understanding that my math blew... but I still believe, from personal experience (if nothing else), that plasma is a death sentence... and that other wargear, for cheaper, is more reliable.

I will also admit that I may have been playing it all wrong... so maybe I just need to go and play a plasma vets squad again... and see where it takes me.

Lol probability FTW. Apart from the novice error of only multiplying the numerator on that 2/6 fraction, you were doing ok up to there.

Still, I think the overall point here is that while plasma is dangerous to the firer, at this point cost game it IS twice as good as melta vs. MEQ infantry (actually, at any cost game). Why it is extra-good at 750pts is that it can double for AT in a pinch, having a high strength.

Remember that 40k is designed to be played at 1500, that is where the game mechanics are at their fairest. But it will be a while until I am playing that, so that is why this list may appear a little strange at times.

Well, as plasma weapons are AP2, and nothing has a 1+ armour save, I assume that saves are allowed because the rules say that saves are allowed against "gets hot!" Also, i thought "Gets hot!" didn't affect vehicles.

Back on topic, id consider valks or vendettas. better transport than chims, as far as i'm concerned, as they can make a good support role after the troops have disembarked.

To the OP - I think your second list is looking pretty good. I agree that switching the LRE to a LRBT and fielding another chimera would be useful.

If you want to bring SR's with your vets, consider switching the AC to a HB. It meshes better with the SR targets, and gives you 6 BS4 shots at 36", pretty good for an IG squad. Good against infantry and can shoot at light vehicles in a pinch. Add Harker and you can infiltrate 9 shots at 36" into a good spot. Maybe too expensive at this level tho...

Had another re-think, and came up with this. This pleases me more, as I already have a load of these figures finished. Seems like I am always making and painting things for hours at a time that I end up not using (stormtroopers, MoO, snipers, mortar team, lascannons, etc.). Hopefully this will be effective AND let me use some more of what I already have.

HQ – Company Command Squad
Master of Ordnance
80

Troops - Veteran Squad
3 plasma guns
Chimera with hull heavy flamer
155

Troops – Infantry Platoon
Platoon Command Squad
4 meltaguns
70

Infantry Squad
Heavy Bolter
60

Infantry Squad
Heavy bolter
60


Fast Attack – Hellhound Squadron
Bane Wolf with hull multi-melta
145

Fast Attack – Vendetta Squadron
Vendetta
130

As you cheeky chappies with calculators will work out soon enough, this isn't really anywhere near 750 (700, or 670 without MoO - I'm not totally decided about him yet).

Drop MoO and 5 points somewhere to run 5 stormtroopers, or something else?