Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

You would be surprised how much Marshall Aid the UK got after WW2.

Of course unlike France, Germany and Japan, we had spent an awful lot of money in the US during the law.

No crosses in the classroom. Great I say. Get them the out. If this makes god angry then I'm sure god can manifest his displeasure in the form of a tsunami or plague or flood or locusts.

You're not getting the point Olympia. EU overseers have dropped down to determining whether or not minor classroom fixtures are acceptable. Next they'll be regulating your Guinness to German er Euro standards, yea Euro...

Kilkrazy wrote:You would be surprised how much Marshall Aid the UK got after WW2.

Of course unlike France, Germany and Japan, we had spent an awful lot of money in the US during the law.

And of course we paid it all back, the last payment coming around 3 years ago.

Now we have the pleasure of having just as much as debt as before though! Thanks to the bunch of cons running our government....

Mosques in the community disturb me... give me money and kick out the muslims.

Stupid EU....


Also sucked in if you are in the EU. Your tax dollars are going to be spent on 100 BILLION Euros per year, every year, forever to help the third world countries deal with climate change.... Rather than spend it on environmentally friendly programs to decrease pollution in the countries that pollute (i.e. the EU) and help the economy there.

Steps:
1: 100 Billion is a hell of alot of fat cash.
2: I am disturbed by climate change (or at least the hysteria surrounding it).
3: I work with a doctor who emigrated from Kenya.
4: That should be good enough.
5: Give me some money.

Actually, if I recall correctly, most of that is ghost funds. Stuff governments have already pledged in their own spare time, and or just simply aren't intending on paying. You get a lot of that round here. Various governments are always announcing 'bold new initiatives', and you discover it's the same thing they said last week just with a different impressive sounding title.

The fact is, we are a fading nation with a puffed up sense of our own importance on the world stage. It's harsh, but true.

Not really. We have the 3rd highest defence expenditure in the world (more than Russia, India, Israel, France, Germany - and only just behind China) the size of our economy is still the 6th highest in the world (and THAT's during a recession), 10th highest exporter of goods and 8th highest GDP. Plus, we have a fairly respectable nuclear deterrent.
Now, no-one is kidding themselves that Britain is still a super-power - but a fading nation? No offence, but you need to stop reading the tabloids. Now.

Read this instead:

World's most powerful nations (ranked according to GDP, military power, diplomacy, capital strength, technological power, natural resources, human resources, government coordination and control capability, information and communication)

1) United States - 90.69
2) Britain - 65.04
3) Russia - 63.03
4) France - 62
5) Germany - 61.93
6) China - 59.10
7) Japan - 57.84
8 ) Canada - 57.09
9) South Korea - 53,2
10) India - 50.43

Korea has been ranked the ninth most powerful nation by the Chinese government's top think tank, the Academy of Social Sciences.

The U.S. was predictably in the top spot. China came sixth, one level above Japan. The CASS released a report on Thursday which ranked countries in nine areas -- GDP, military power, diplomacy, capital strength, technological power, natural resources, human resources, government coordination and control capability, information and communication -- with the average in each field determining a country's overall rank.

Among the top 10, the U.S. came first by a long chalk with a composite national power index of 90.69, followed by the U.K. with 65.04, Russia with 63.03, France with 62, Germany with 61.93, China with 59.10, Japan with 57.84, Canada with 57.09, Korea with 53.2 and India with 50.43.

Not neccesarily taking this as gospel (although seeing as it was commissioned by the Chinese and they didn't put themselves on top...), but it makes you think.

I think 'diplomacy' might be skew the results; I mean sure having powerful allies is nice, but that's not really a matter of your country's power.

Still, I'm sure the UK is in the top five, if not the top three.

What does that mean for the US then, as they have the UK and EU as principle allies? Does that lower it's score?

Yeah, obviously a lot of that was because we are a Nuclear power and the language helps, but we are up there. Despite our best efforts at times it seems.

Good move here. Religious symbols, even Christian ones, have no worthwhile place being in public environments if the state is trying to promote religious freedom and equality.

Now if only America would revert the unnecessary "Under God" nonsense that became a part of American life due to the Red Scare it'd be another small step in the right direction.

It's true that we export a lot of weapons. In fact, it is our number 1 export. We sell more of those than anything else, that's why we have so many companies like Qinetiq. However, out military is struggling to keep up it's manpower with the poor wages, and level of care offered to our soldiers. There's little incentive to join the Armed Forces any more. Tremendous sections of the Navy have been sold off to Canada and the likes, and we can no longer afford to kit out one of our newly ordered Aircraft Carriers with the jets it needs, so we're sticking choppers on it instead. The TA has had it's training budget slashed to the point where all my TA friends are now having to find other means. The regular troopers are missing a lot of kit, and I've heard that from people I actually know in the forces. Regardless of what the statistics you pull up may say, we couldn't fight the Falklands again.

The only reason our economy hasn't plunged through the roof is because Gordon Brown has borrowed as much money as we spent in a world war to try and stave off the worst until the next election is past.

The fact is, our day in the spotlight has come and gone. We haven't lost absolutely everything yet, but the progression of the EU, combined with our slow dwindling in stature makes it only a matter of time, unless something happens to reverse it. As I said before, no-one really cares what the British think anymore. The US has all the muscle it needs, the Chinese control the worlds production, and the Russians still have access to a lot of oil, and most of the worlds natural resources. On a global scale, we no longer matter really.

Frazzled wrote:You're not getting the point Olympia. EU overseers have dropped down to determining whether or not minor classroom fixtures are acceptable. Next they'll be regulating your Guinness to German er Euro standards, yea Euro...

Sorry Frazzled. I don't buy it. You know what year divorce was legalized in Ireland?....1999. Holy EU pressure had much to do with it. 'National sovereignty' is not an excuse to trample the rights of minorities or individuals. Consider the persecuted minority in the U.S. known as 'gun owners.' Thank goodness they have Scalia, Alito, et. al. to protect their rights against the majority opinion in blue states. To return to Ireland, there is here an organization that has a history of protecting known rapists and pedophiles; a group that in recent history imprisoned teen mothers and removed their babies for adoption against their will. This organization is the Catholic Church. It is currently in nominal control of the vast majority of public schools in Ireland. If this EU ruling in ANY way puts it to those I'm happy.

Condoms were Illegal in Ireland until 1996.

Think about that for a second

Wow, I had no idea about those tidbits about Ireland. Now I've got a place to research - didn't realize how important Catholic ideals were to 'em.

olympia wrote:

Frazzled wrote:You're not getting the point Olympia. EU overseers have dropped down to determining whether or not minor classroom fixtures are acceptable. Next they'll be regulating your Guinness to German er Euro standards, yea Euro...

Sorry Frazzled. I don't buy it. You know what year divorce was legalized in Ireland?....1999. Holy EU pressure had much to do with it. 'National sovereignty' is not an excuse to trample the rights of minorities or individuals. Consider the persecuted minority in the U.S. known as 'gun owners.' Thank goodness they have Scalia, Alito, et. al. to protect their rights against the majority opinion in blue states. To return to Ireland, there is here an organization that has a history of protecting known rapists and pedophiles; a group that in recent history imprisoned teen mothers and removed their babies for adoption against their will. This organization is the Catholic Church. It is currently in nominal control of the vast majority of public schools in Ireland. If this EU ruling in ANY way puts it to those I'm happy.

And I don't buy that. If we followed the dictates of the UN or EU (comparable entities) my Bill of Rights would have been abrogated long ago. Oh well its your country, not mine. I had just thought the UK was made of sterner stuff.

Cane wrote:Wow, I had no idea about those tidbits about Ireland. Now I've got a place to research - didn't realize how important Catholic ideals were to 'em.

As an Englishman living in Ireland, I can report that they are not important, they are just an excuse whenever they need one.

Gwar! wrote:

Cane wrote:Wow, I had no idea about those tidbits about Ireland. Now I've got a place to research - didn't realize how important Catholic ideals were to 'em.

As an Englishman living in Ireland, I can report that they are not important, they are just an excuse whenever they need one.

OT: Gwar, you going to the Irish GT this weekend?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:
And I don't buy that. If we followed the dictates of the UN or EU (comparable entities) my Bill of Rights would have been abrogated long ago. Oh well its your country, not mine. I had just thought the UK was made of sterner stuff.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your Bill of Rights is abrograted at will by the federal government when it deems such actions necessary. I'll let Lincoln explain: "The dogmas of the quiet past, are inadequate to the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise -- with the occasion. As our case is new, so we must think anew, and act anew. We must disenthrall ourselves, and then we shall save our country." No habeas corpus for you!!!

Albatross wrote:What does that mean for the US then, as they have the UK and EU as principle allies? Does that lower it's score?

Yeah, probably.

I have a feeling China is being somewhat conservative about their estimates; better to find out you've underestimated your capabilities than overestimated them, and such.

Cane wrote:Now if only America would revert the unnecessary "Under God" nonsense that became a part of American life due to the Red Scare it'd be another small step in the right direction.

It really does sound awkward.

Just on the catholic influence in ireland thing, they kept free education out for about 30 years longer than the rest of europe too. But the church isn't powerful here anymore, really- their power has dropped massively in the last two decades after so many scandals and increased education. Most irish people are "pick and mix" catholics, taking the vatican with a pinch of salt, or agnostic or whatever. The church is not a respected institution. However, the government is corrupt and lazy and likes to take any excuse not to implement reforms, as Gwar pointed out. I'd love my country to be run by the EU- they might actually do a good job.

You should have your country led by the US.

olympia wrote:OT: Gwar, you going to the Irish GT this weekend?

No, even though I live nearby (Athlone right? If it is I might come to watch actually). No Spare money atm for things like that (also I suck at painting/have not painted most my Spess Puppehs)

Frazzled wrote:
And I don't buy that. If we followed the dictates of the UN or EU (comparable entities) my Bill of Rights would have been abrogated long ago. Oh well its your country, not mine. I had just thought the UK was made of sterner stuff.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your Bill of Rights is abrograted at will by the federal government when it deems such actions necessary. I'll let Lincoln explain: "The dogmas of the quiet past, are inadequate to the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise -- with the occasion. As our case is new, so we must think anew, and act anew. We must disenthrall ourselves, and then we shall save our country." No habeas corpus for you!!!

Respectfully, you don't have a clue about this area. Give it up while you're behind.

Frazzled wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
And I don't buy that. If we followed the dictates of the UN or EU (comparable entities) my Bill of Rights would have been abrogated long ago. Oh well its your country, not mine. I had just thought the UK was made of sterner stuff.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your Bill of Rights is abrograted at will by the federal government when it deems such actions necessary. I'll let Lincoln explain: "The dogmas of the quiet past, are inadequate to the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise -- with the occasion. As our case is new, so we must think anew, and act anew. We must disenthrall ourselves, and then we shall save our country." No habeas corpus for you!!!

Respectfully, you don't have a clue about this area. Give it up while you're behind.

You are wrong. Your statement is a poor substitute for an argument. Your facile comparison of the UN to the EU would suggest you don't have a clue.

Albatross wrote:What does that mean for the US then, as they have the UK and EU as principle allies? Does that lower it's score?

You're assuming that the UK's score is dragged up by its alliance with the USA, and the USA is dragged down. It's more like this.

The UK's diplomacy score is increased by its traditional links with the Commonwealth including India, closeness to the EU and alliance with the USA. The USA's score is increased by its alliance with the UK and EU which has all these other diplomatic links to be exploited.

The point of alliances is to be stronger than the sum of the two partners.

The bill of rights has a sort of "national security" loophole in it. Aspects of those rights have been trampled from the beginning of the country (Alien and Sedition acts) to now (wireless wiretapping and various handgun bans).

That doesn't mean they're abrogated "at will"

Frazzled wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
And I don't buy that. If we followed the dictates of the UN or EU (comparable entities) my Bill of Rights would have been abrogated long ago. Oh well its your country, not mine. I had just thought the UK was made of sterner stuff.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your Bill of Rights is abrograted at will by the federal government when it deems such actions necessary. I'll let Lincoln explain: "The dogmas of the quiet past, are inadequate to the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise -- with the occasion. As our case is new, so we must think anew, and act anew. We must disenthrall ourselves, and then we shall save our country." No habeas corpus for you!!!

Respectfully, you don't have a clue about this area. Give it up while you're behind.

Actually it's fact that Lincoln suspended Habeus Corpus for some limited period during the Civil War.

Also the modern concept of human rights and self-determination is based on the Atlantic Charter and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights both of which were sponsored by the USA and are full of US ideals and political ideas.

Comparing the UN to the EU is crude, but they're similar in that they're both the equivalent of adding a foundation to an already constructed house. It's going to take a lot of work and involve a lot of digging.

The United States couldn't enforce the national bill of rights at the state level for the first 75 years of it's existence, and rarely did for another 50. Federal governments take time to grow organically.

the point still needs to be made clear that from a legal and philosophical sense, the Bill of Rights is a much higher form of law than anything done by any one congress. The US constitution spends almost as much time explaining what government can't do than what it can do.

Polonius wrote:The bill of rights has a sort of "national security" loophole in it. Aspects of those rights have been trampled from the beginning of the country (Alien and Sedition acts) to now (wireless wiretapping and various handgun bans).

That doesn't mean they're abrogated "at will"

Here's what I said: by the federal government when it deems such actions necessary.
As you say, we have the 1790s, the Civil War, WW1, WW2, 'War on Terror,' etc. The point is that it's up to the federal government (Lincoln was struck down by the Supreme Court and chose to ignore it) to decide when it is necessary.