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No, it would not. Sorry, you scolded me once on NEAT for not using names so I always want to use yours.

Post edited. Will not happen again.

Thanks
So I cant say youll get more info other than that things have been a bit hush hush, I went out on a limb posting that with the intend to dismay some of the negativeness often found on this site for a lot of fans of At-43 and to some degree gaming, this isnt the most friendly site.... please dont shoot the message guy..lol
Ive been a fan of the site back when Mr R. Wakelin first started it and its a very differant place now. I dont like to post here cause the debates get too "over the top" and takes to much time from things that often dont matter in the grand scheme of things. Im just looking to have fun and play games debates like those found on a lot of forums today that go over the top are not fun for me . When we gather to chat and game, sites like the TGN & Boardgeek are talked about and offer more of what makes me feel good about gaming. Dakka is offten talked about with caution and concern that its hostile at times and for those seeking info to venture lighlty! sad really cause I know the founders didnt want that to happen... I bring this up with a smile and my only intentent is to make folks think and try harder to just be a bit more fun..... go in peace : )

Im planning to do a lot with AT-43 I hope to incourage players and yet to be players /fans to try and stay possitive and play games. And if you have the game try promoting it by simply playing it at your fav store.

I know you went out on a limb, and I am sure I am not the only person who really appreciates it. Rackham has such a rep for not communicating with its consumers...it probably shouldn't be the Sentinels' place to be speaking for the company so much but that's what we're left with. At least you're trying.

Nor did I intend to shoot the messenger...I tried to address my comments to Martin, if he's paying attention. I know he's posted here before.

It seems like I spend an inordinate amount of time trying to explain my actions sometimes because not everyone gets that some people consider critical thought and pursuit of the truth valuable for their own sakes and they don't like upsetting apple carts...not that those are always good things and they're difficult to do with tact due to the nature of what you're doing...but in this case I'm honestly asking because I'm interested in purchasing AT-43 product again and don't want to get burned. At least one other poster in here is in precisely the same position, and I'm sure there are more than two of us.

Yeah, I have gaming friends who avoid DD like the plague. Warseer is just as bad...I think that whenever you get a gaggle of socially maladjusted nerds, grown up or otherwise, gathered in the same place that negativity, over-criticalism, and general disagreeableness are always going to dominate the conversation after a while. This is why I avoided them like the plague when I was in school at all levels. Nerds, I mean.

Geeks aren't as bad, but we're geeks because we have nerdly tendencies...

I also hear you about getting into stuff that doesn't matter much in the scheme of things...I lost someone very dear to me on Oct. 9th very suddenly and no foreknowledge it was coming, and had spent part of what would turn into the final hours I would have with her in the Off-Topic forum here having a stupid argument about nothing that mattered. I haven't been back there since.

some people consider critical thought and pursuit of the truth valuable for their own sakes and they don't like upsetting apple carts...

There is a difference between "critical thought" and over-thinking, thinking for, thinking beyond

There is a difference between "pursuit of truth" and posting incorrect information waiting for someone to disbunk it and then claiming that no one answered so it must be true.

I'm honestly asking because I'm interested in purchasing AT-43 product again and don't want to get burned.

Let's assume the game ended after they released their products currently listed for next year? Would you be burned? Why?

If you are banking your CURRENT enjoyment only on product that has not been released yet and probably will not be released for 2 or more years, do you think that is a good plan?

I have been burned before with other games. I bought many booster cases of Mechwarrior DA only to see them retire entire sets from competitive play (which it mostly was for me). Then when the rules of the game changed half-way through it and ultimately died I had huge boxes of stuff that I could not even sell for peanuts. It ended up being a huge dumpster run and it really hit home for me that I had wasted all that money. So if RE does in fact, stop all wargaming lines in less than 6 months, then it will be a huge waste of money to buy anything further than what I have now.

As it is, only myself and one other guy play anymore and I was going to try and get more guys into it. However, if the game is going to die in less than 6 months I am going to have a HUGE battle trying to get people to buy any of it.

Also, I only really play at-43 and infinity right now (Tho warcanto is looking pretty cool) so there isn't really any re-use of the models for me. If Re dies, I would pick my favorite few models and vehicles and take them to work as desk ornaments, but the rest will be useless to me and probably end up in the trash. I looked on ebay to see if people are buying used at-43 army lots and the answer is no. Again, I would be left with a huge pile of minis that I can do nothing with, and that would be more effort than return to try and sell at a pitiful price. It would be dumpster run time again, which is extremely disheartening.

As for the back and forth between Martin and Jean's opinions on how things are going, I want to believe Martin. It is possible however, that they have access to different levels of information.

As I said, I really want AT-43 to continue on and grow, but I also understand the concept of cutting your losses and moving on. It is a tough decision and only having one guy who is interested to play the game with doesn't help. If it is time to move onto another game, I'd rather know that now and make the switch. I don't have as much time to play several simultaneous games as I used to. We shall see.

I've seen all these mentions about an eighth race, and the Kryg being the seventh race, but now I'm confused. I know about the U.N.A, the Therians, the Red Blok, the Karmans and the Oni, which is five armies, so even with the Kryg being the seventh, that still leaves the sixth. Who are they?

Cogs. Just released. Giant genetically engineered Aliens who are super elite and have ridiculously accurate weapons. (and can summon up free vehicles too) They are pretty awesome!

Let's not discuss definitions of critical thought and pursuit of truth, Haywire. There are no objective standards and I suspect our private definitions are vastly different.


Wolflord gets it perfectly. I mean, perfectly. I agree with every word he said, and he said it much better than I seemed to be able to.

I got burned with Star Wars Pocketmodels. Friend got me into it, I dropped money to get started, turned out the company got bought out a MONTH later and I had to sell it all on FeeBay for a substantial loss. I was...displeased...


I'm not sure whether I'm glad or not that Sentinels contacted me with all of this information. I was really thinking about getting into Oni so that I had a pair of armies for demos and teaching people in case anyone comes around in the future and the Army Boxes convince them to give it a try.

I suppose I could accomplish the same task with 7,500 AP of UNA, but I was looking forward to zombies...but it's already difficult to find games and it's just going to get worse if the game ends in a year.

(I hope you can respect that I'm under time constraints you might not have, Haywire. Driving to the place you and I can both play AT-43 one weekend a month is not an option for me. The wife already expressed "displeasure" considering I head out once a week as it is, and when we have kids soon it's only going to get worse. If I'm going to play AT-43 it has to be in Boston)


Part of what generates the excitement about these games is "new stuff." GW's new Codex and model releases cause as much anguish as joy, but it keeps people talking, keeps them trying new armies. If I dropped $450 on an Oni army and then the game ended a year later and it just turned into an exercise in nostalgia and "what once was," yeah I'd feel burned.

I guess, actually, I'd be more upset than anything. I'd love to be able to find games using a sci-fi system where I didn't have to PAINT anything. I'd like to believe it could still become a long-term presence in gaming...so when I get news like I got, I want someone to disprove it.

So far, it sounds like the information is more on-target than not, because the best I'm getting out of people is acknowledgment that some of it is right but no specificity as to which parts are right and which are wrong (which is evasive and worrisome), and statements about the past but nothing about the future, and both from the most official sources we've heard speak up on the matter. :(

wolflord_ian wrote:Cogs. Just released. Giant genetically engineered Aliens who are super elite and have ridiculously accurate weapons. (and can summon up free vehicles too) They are pretty awesome!

Yep, I forgot about the Cogs. Ugliest dudes in the game, especially the walkers. Thanks, Wolflord. So, any info on what the Krygs look like?

Krygs sculpts haven't been done yet according to the powers that be. We'll see.

No info on them other than what's in Army Book Oni.

AT-43 cannot completely die because there is enough of a range out there and being pre-paint its an easy pick up game. Some games died and came back, Battletech is a good example, to survive you need a good fanbase for the game background, not the rules or minitures, the 'fluff'. So far Rackham got this mostly right, ridiculously outscaled in parts but agreeable and enjoyable nonetheless.

As for whether it is safe to spend money on AT-43, definately. My own armies are growing steadily, I have reached my target 8000AP Therian, UNA and Red Blok and am starting on my Karmans this month. As I mentioned before and was quoted here, if all else fails they are Necrons and guardsmen. They may still be, from time to time, but that would be double duty. I bought AT-43 to stay, hence the number and size of my armies, I am hosting games and providing all the miniatures for the playgroup (excepting the Cogs another of the group has just started). Meanwhile Low walls and crates are great for so many games, being very handy and real looking terrain pieces. My supply of low walls, which is getting quite large now with the Army and Damocles boxsets I have being buying, makes for better Planetstrike fortifications than the GW low walls, they are sturdy, look real and faction generic.

I have already bought some unit boxes purely for conversion, Kolossi to Meganobz come to mind. Others stare out for the potential, but are for armies I dont collect or am already well stocked with. Tiamat would make a far better Necron Lord than any GW miniature I have seen. Cog vehicles are Tau vehicles right down to the colour palette, and we already have a Tau Hammerhead-suit in the Vandal.

Meanwhile games like Secrets of the Third Reich tournaments go as far as to encourage use of Red Blok vehicles, and I have loaned my UNA army to be used for Star Wars miniatures.

The product line is very active, and potentially collectible if worst comes to worst, but when all is said and done my armies are back home and used above all else for games of AT-43, in one fashion or another, and I have no intention to stop either.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cairnius wrote:Krygs sculpts haven't been done yet according to the powers that be. We'll see.

No info on them other than what's in Army Book Oni.

Do we even know what Krygs are yet? We have rival humans, we have high tech aliens, we have robots, we have zombies, I am expecting another anthropomophic terran animal and am thinking along the lines of reptilians. But this is an unsubstantiated guess.

Well I don't think this news puts me off either way, as long as the army boxes are available next spring time I'll be getting into the game for sure.

From the Karman army book, the Kyrgs are another alien race who are lower tech, but very aggressive. (I am thinking they will be like the orks; strong melee and damage on weapons with lots of troops, but poor aim and not many spiffy tricks. Supposedly, the Therians had the Karmans pretty much kill off the entire race. The Karmans still consider this to be one of their biggest sins and there are rumors of Kyrgs still being alive in small pockets here and there.

I don't think it mentions what they look like at all, but there was a fuzzy illustration in one of the book from a long time ago. (if i recall correctly).

I hope you can respect that I'm under time constraints you might not have, Haywire. Driving to the place you and I can both play AT-43 one weekend a month is not an option for me. The wife already expressed "displeasure" considering I head out once a week as it is, and when we have kids soon it's only going to get worse. If I'm going to play AT-43 it has to be in Boston

The point I am trying to make to you Cairnius is that you have been displeased with the rules, the company, the lack of Boston players, and the support since day one.

If you cannot enjoy the game NOW, then do not assume it will magically become enjoyable 6 months down the line.

Basically, I am telling you to stop anquishing and get off the pot (toilet not drugs).

Ah, I understand.

Truth be told Haywire, is that I've actually mellowed quite a bit on AT-43. I acknowledge that it was my choice to buy in so heavy, and that had I done this more gradually I might not have had such a virulent reaction to learning about things like rules inconsistencies, the quality of the rulebooks in terms of syntax and organization, realizing that the quality of the prepaints was vastly different than as advertised, and depending on posters and gaming tiles for all the designed, official missions.

All things that I wish someone like me had been around to tell me about so that I had gone in with eyes wide open. I've said it a zillion times - I've done everything I've done in terms of the reviews, the posting, to be the person I wished had been there for me when I first got started. I know I've opened the eyes of people who STILL bought into AT-43 and spared them the reactions that I had. There's value in what I do.

Something people don't always get...critics aren't critics because they DON'T care. Suffice it to say I saw AT-43 not taking off where I honestly thought, and might still think, that it definitely could. I don't think I'd be so frustrated with Rackham and now Rackham Entertainment if I didn't think that, to a point, they were crapping on their own chances at success.

One of my hopes is that the company will finally understand that, as Franco-centric as they may want to be, that the money to be made is HERE, in the United States, and they'll start handling AT-43 like an American piece of media. When in Rome and all that.

It's difficult for me not to be concerned with missed opportunities, stunted growth, and underperformance when something has SO much potential as AT-43 does, Haywire. I'm a communications man with experience in media. I can see the advertising possibilities so readily for AT-43 that it kills me no one is leaping on them. LOL, give me a modest budget, a team of hungry comic book artists, a month to research and six months to call the shots on an ad campaign and I'll double the AT-43 player base in the United States. *grin*

I could find AT-43 enjoyable right now, Haywire. I just need people to play it with. If I had more faith in the company and people took it more seriously, I could have remained a Sentinel, and a rather productive one...I think my Mission Generator is quite good for what it does and considering it's only an Alpha. I hope people start using it such that I can improve it for everyone. I'd like to make some tokens and other gaming aids to add as Appendix II but I lack the graphic design skills. I should recruit my wife...

Cairnus, your ideas sound much better than what RE have been doing. GW should have stuck with their comics.

There's a lot that people could be doing to promote the game and make it better. There are four Sentinels I can think of who've produced quality P.R. content. It's not distributed off the AT-43 forums, however, which is part of the problem. It wasn't until I came here and to Warseer that you started to see Sentinels come out of their AT-43 forum cocoon. To a point, I did my job - I got them out into the greater internet gaming community. The best they had before this was Tabletop Wargaming News and Zac doesn't tolerate any critical industry talk over there so it's difficult to maintain an energetic conversation that goes beyond fanboyism.

Intrigue! Suspense! Walls of text!

I'm hoping AT-43 keeps on trucking . I don't know what rumors (or facts) or out there to the contrary, but it seems like they're pushing to make it work, and in many ways, it is working! So I'll wait to hear something more official before running for the hills . It seems like they've got a good thing going, and have lots of opportunity to continue if it makes good business sense (always the determining factor, of course!).

FYI, Paolo Parente posted the following on the AT-43 forums...

Hello ,
Paolo here ,
I usually do not make interventions directly on the forum , but I think that this time I need to :
-I AM STILL EMPLOYEE AT RACKHAM ENT.
- AT-43 ? I am currently finalising the design on the Kyegs !! YEAH !
- DUST has been my hobby and dream for a very long time and now is a 1/35 scale range of model kits (too big for gaming...) you can see them at : www.dust-models.com ....And that makes me already happy
I want to thank you for all your kind words
enjoy your game !
P.

Link: http://en-forum.at-43.com/viewtopic.php?t=4142&start=200

Wow, loads of text to read......and at the base of it all, I found one ideal from the OP to be interesting and slightly disappointing.

If the company is, now run by "bean counters"....then it would be a massive mistake by the community to try to BUY the continuation of the game....do we want to create another GW?

Now, please don't get me wrong, I'm all for supporting a good gaming system, and a company that produces said gaming system, but its clear that the company has no love or appreciation for their product, so throwing money at them will not inspire a better product....just its continuation....and eventual stagnation!

I say let the NEW Rackham have a bash at making their "toys", if thats what they think will bring in more money....its always a shame when a system dies, especially for those that have invested in it.

I think we're getting a bit glib here. To be honest this could be a good thing.

Hasbro is a toy company and they have a miniatures game. Heroscape.

I mean let's face it and I'm sure I'll take flack for this but yes AT-43......and yes warhammer are toys. They're simply toys with rules. You can call warhammer a hobby all you want just because you have to paint and assemble them....but the same could be same about old school GI Joe vehicals from hasbro and they were toys...and yes you had to apply decals......kinda like the water ones in warhammer.

These are all toys. And how do you sell toys? That's right...you make a cartoon. If I had my way they'll make it racy and adult to appeal to more "adult" gamers. But realistically thy could just make it detailed kids toys and we could ignour the kiddish cartoon. All they'd have to do is publish rules to keep us happy...and then our kids need to have these models/toys could give us the excuse to get more goodies that we can "borrow" to game with or even have something in commom with our kids...assuming I ever have any....

So to sum up.

Toys good. With luck the quality will go up and not down.

But it really is time for a company to give us pre-assembled pre-painted minis for those who love to game but actually have lives.

At worse. I think in a few years you'll see some one following Rackhams lead. As manufactoring tecnology get's better we'll see companies able to just say screw it.... give them painted minis ready to go.

That's cool that Paolo posted over on the forums...it's always cool when you shake one of the top guys out of the woodwork.

I did notice that Jean Bey's name doesn't appear on the Oni Army Book credits, though...so perhaps the info on him is accurate...I think what I've taken away from all this is that the Sentinels do not have their house in order any more than when I used to be one. Probably no one should have been talking.

AT-43 is def. toys. They're pretty much the Star Wars toys I collect. Warhammer stuff is def. models because they're pretty much the car models I used to make with my Dad when I was a kid. You can say that painted, finished 40K stuff are "toys" but that's really disrespecting the work that a really good modeler puts into it (considering conversions mark the best 40K models) not to mention the skill of a really good painter. Modeling + painting = hobby.

Some people just collect AT-43 toys like some people just collect 40K models...but what was ostensibly distressing about the "news" was that RE would not make games anymore but just toys, not "AT-43" toys, not with rules, but who knows.

In the end time will tell, and what really matters, I guess, is whether people are playing AT-43. That is what is really going to decide whether anyone purchases their stuff or not.

As a person who was an avid AT-43 fanboy, I will say that I nor anyone else locally has played AT-43 in over a year and a half publicly at our FLGS.

That said, I still feel that for all the crap that surrounds Rackham and AT-43, it is still far and away a much more superior game than 40K, by quite a large margin. If it wasnt for the awesome models that 40K has, we would all be playing the more sublime AT-43 as we speak. I am digressing from my point, but it is a good thing to remember that one of the main reasons why AT-43 isn't as popular as it should or could be is due to the models.

Even though I have not played in forever, and paid full price for my two 5K+ AA armies before all this sweet fire sale nonsense, I wouldnt sell them ever. I havent played 40K for nearly the same length of time and would prefer to throw away my lovingly modelled 40K stuff long before thinking of selling my AT-43.

The reason is the quality of the rules. I enjoy the game far more than most other squad based games currently on the market with the exception of WotR.

Locally, I know I am not alone in my sentiments. if the local thought pattern is any indication of the larger sentiments shared by the gaming cells of people who play or own AT-43, then the game isnt dead by a long stretch. Let Rackham do what it wishes. It could drop AT-43 tomorrow and I wouldn't care.

The game should have stopped after the first 3 factions anyways. The only reason why we have space monkeys is because they refused to drop the work already done by parente when AT-43 stood for "Alternate Timeline- 1943" and changed to "After/Trauma-43" when thoe karmens used to be genetically altered gorillas made by the nazis when they discovered lost alien archeotech in Antarctica.

The game stands well enough without being diluted further by even more extraneous factions. Sorry /karmen/cog/kryg/oni lovers. You weren't part of the original plan, and thus, are more difficult to fit in not only with the background but more importantly, into the game mechanics as well.

Further digression: I find it laughable when AT-43 rules are criticized. While you have every right to criticize them as a paying consumer of the product, in direct relation to its sci-fi competitors there is simply no comparison. What are you going to play? 40K? Knock yourself out. Again, the only thing 40K does better is models.

So the game isn't a blockbuster success as was originally anticipated? Big deal, at least there are people playing it on occasion. I see more people playing AT-43 than I do see playing supposedly more popular games such as battletech.

To sum up my rather scattered post, the game isnt for everyone and it shows. Either because of Rackhams mistakes in various ways (many of which are their own fault, others in how they predicted the consumers would react) or because of the current sentiment towards other games. If you are very heavy into, say for instance, GW games or FOW, then your less inclined to start up yet another game, even if all the work has been done already for you.

If Rackham does go full blown toy company that just produces toys with no regard to a centralized and organized way to enjoy them (ala 'rules'), then so be it. It doesnt lessen how good AT-43 actually is by a long shot.

Hellfury: My group played AT-43 most of last year. I think you played with one of them as well, but the release schedule for Cogs really changed my mind on the game.

I agree that the rules are better (at least more fun to play IMO) than the other game, but that isn't enough for me to keep buying. I do have a large, if incomplete, UNA army and I suspect I'll play again in the future, but at this point I don't care what Rackham (or that other company) does at this point. I have enough to enjoy the game with my friends.

As this thread more than adequately demonstrated, I'm not sure anyone knows what's going on at Rackham. Even stuff Jean Bey is telling us gets contradicted, so who knows anymore. Furthermore, who cares anymore.

AT-43 had much more potential than it realized...I think most people who know the game would consider that a reasonable statement. It's always been that potential which I am enamored with, and which has kept me interested all this time.

Now, the idea of AT-43 coming to an end has me actually buying stuff instead of selling what I have...it's an archival interest at this point more than anything. I'm actually asking for AT-43 stuff for Christmas, building a smaller version of my formerly huge AT-43 collection. I've got my 8k of U.N.A. I kept intact from the firesale madness, I've got about 5K of Red Blok coming, 3K of Therians, and 3K of Cogs. I'll be getting Oni when they come out, will probably pick up a Karman army box just to have some in the collection, and we'll see about Krygs.

I've got plenty of friends I can have over just to play AT-43. If I have most of the armies for the game that'll keep things interesting for a long time. I also think of my kids when I think of AT-43. It's a simple minis game with prepaints. Perfect way for my kids to cut their teeth, should they ever want to, on minis games before stepping into the more complex and potentially more mature tabletop games on the market.


It was Oni which got me interested in the game again, so I personally disagree with the idea of calling them "extraneous," and I honestly don't know how much anyone really knows about what "the plan" was. Several people have talked about how Paolo Parente developed this "Alternate Timeline 1943" idea which then transmografied into AT-43 the sci-fi game...I've never seen published interviews with Paolo or anyone at Rackham about this, and while I do see Paolo's DUST game, that's not proof in and of itself.

I'm generally willing to believe that this was the case, but I don't think that necessarily means that the Karmans, Cogs, Oni and Krygs were all "never part of the plan." Cogs and Karmans were always part of the plan based on their mentions in the U.N.A. and Therian Army Books, Krygs have always been part of the mythology. I think Oni is the most "new" of the factions.

Hellfury wrote:As a person who was an avid AT-43 fanboy, I will say that I nor anyone else locally has played AT-43 in over a year and a half publicly at our FLGS.

My FLGS is seriously considering adding an AT-43 game night. They've just expanded their AT-43 section, taking down all of the unsellable Starship Troopers stuff.

That said, I still feel that for all the crap that surrounds Rackham and AT-43, it is still far and away a much more superior game than 40K, by quite a large margin. If it wasnt for the awesome models that 40K has, we would all be playing the more sublime AT-43 as we speak. I am digressing from my point, but it is a good thing to remember that one of the main reasons why AT-43 isn't as popular as it should or could be is due to the models.

Even though I have not played in forever, and paid full price for my two 5K+ AA armies before all this sweet fire sale nonsense, I wouldnt sell them ever. I havent played 40K for nearly the same length of time and would prefer to throw away my lovingly modelled 40K stuff long before thinking of selling my AT-43.

The reason is the quality of the rules. I enjoy the game far more than most other squad based games currently on the market with the exception of WotR.

Locally, I know I am not alone in my sentiments. if the local thought pattern is any indication of the larger sentiments shared by the gaming cells of people who play or own AT-43, then the game isnt dead by a long stretch. Let Rackham do what it wishes. It could drop AT-43 tomorrow and I wouldn't care.

The game should have stopped after the first 3 factions anyways. The only reason why we have space monkeys is because they refused to drop the work already done by parente when AT-43 stood for "Alternate Timeline- 1943" and changed to "After/Trauma-43" when thoe karmens used to be genetically altered gorillas made by the nazis when they discovered lost alien archeotech in Antarctica.

The game stands well enough without being diluted further by even more extraneous factions. Sorry /karmen/cog/kryg/oni lovers. You weren't part of the original plan, and thus, are more difficult to fit in not only with the background but more importantly, into the game mechanics as well.

Really? Why do you think that? It would get sort of stale after awhile with so few army choices. After all, the more different choices there are, the more different people would be attracted to it. But that's just my opinion.

Further digression: I find it laughable when AT-43 rules are criticized. While you have every right to criticize them as a paying consumer of the product, in direct relation to its sci-fi competitors there is simply no comparison. What are you going to play? 40K? Knock yourself out. Again, the only thing 40K does better is models.

So the game isn't a blockbuster success as was originally anticipated? Big deal, at least there are people playing it on occasion. I see more people playing AT-43 than I do see playing supposedly more popular games such as battletech.

To sum up my rather scattered post, the game isnt for everyone and it shows. Either because of Rackhams mistakes in various ways (many of which are their own fault, others in how they predicted the consumers would react) or because of the current sentiment towards other games. If you are very heavy into, say for instance, GW games or FOW, then your less inclined to start up yet another game, even if all the work has been done already for you.

If Rackham does go full blown toy company that just produces toys with no regard to a centralized and organized way to enjoy them (ala 'rules'), then so be it. It doesnt lessen how good AT-43 actually is by a long shot.

If they do stop making AT-43, let's hope they get plenty of product out so that the remaining players are well supported as far as it goes.

Do the new factions break the game that badly?

Not as far as I know...I never see enthusiasts complaining online anyway...then again, we're only talking about Cogs right now. No idea what Oni is going to do. I have a feeling that zombie guns may imbalance things - you know, kill an enemy, replace the mini with an exploding zombie bomb that you need to spend 1 LP to shoot next turn...now imagine seeding zombies through an enemy army.

I think that's going to be an interesting strategy - rather than trying to wipe out whole infantry units with concentrated salvos you take as many zombie guns as you can and just pick one or two people off from every infantry unit to spread zombies all around and get right into the enemy lines a.s.a.p. It could be quite frustrating for opponents, methinks...

All you have to do to beat Cogs is keep knocking them down. It really is a boring game.

Dal'yth Dude wrote:All you have to do to beat Cogs is keep knocking them down. It really is a boring game.

For that matter.... you can do pretty much the same with all infantry except tac arms...therians cannot ground ...easily...and Karmans only have one unit with mortars.... and are as delicate or more as the cogs...

una have only i type of AFV that can ground... REd blok has more chance but Cogs can equal them with pillagers or vandals

and if you plan to ground with flamers... well... if you as cog commander let them get that close you deserve to be smashed