Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Some information has come to my attention which I have been debating what to do with.


While I won’t disclose names of sources, this information comes from Rackham Sentinels and their conversations with Jean Bey and Paolo Parente from GenCon this year. Considering the nature of the sources I find the information credible, mostly because I cannot fathom why they would want to make stuff like this up and then give it to ME of all people. The best explanation I can come up with other than it being the truth is that it is some kind of insane strategy to get me to talk up sales for the game somehow. That doesn’t seem likely.

The reason the Sentinels have not distributed the information is because they fear repercussion upon the probable sources in the eyes of Rackham Entertainment…which would most certainly seem like a reasonable fear if the information got thrown up on the official RE AT-43 forums…but I’m not so sure that anyone in officialdom from RE other than perhaps Martin Terrier is paying any attention to Dakka Dakka, and I don’t think it would be in Martin’s interests to go tattling off to his bosses that this discussion is being had out in the open on the intrawebs…

In any case, I won't be distributing this to any other websites, for instance Warseer. The information will be here on the forum I helped get changed to AT-43 due to my spurring everyone into action posting...and I hope to spur you all to action again, albiet in the real world this time and not here in virtua-land.


I had been looking very closely at the upcoming Oni faction since I got my first look at the Army Box contents. I scored a copy of the Oni Army Book from one of my Sentinel connections and have been enjoying reading it this past weekend. I got to figuring out how much money I would have to be spending, even at discounted internet prices, to run full Oni armies and it would run into the hundreds of dollars, most likely.

Then I got the news I received late last week, and my impetus to ever purchase anything AT-43 related again took a big blow. What occurs to me is that I would not be the only person who would feel the same way, and so I almost feel like disclosing this information is in the best interests of the consumer – and while I also understand why the Sentinels don’t want to disclose any of this it really kills me to see people discussing the future of AT-43 and seeing the Sentinels watch quietly without giving people any inkling as to what’s going on.

I also think the Sentinels may be miscalculating, for if this information is true it means that AT-43 fans need to put their efforts to spread the game and increase sales in high gear because it matters more than ever.

So – here’s what I have to share with everyone. Again, this information comes from Rackham Sentinels reporting conversations with Jean Bey and Paolo Parente at GenCon this year, and this posting was written with the editing assistance of Rackham Sentinels in the interest of making it as tone-neutral as possible. I guess I can be the mouthpiece they cannot for fear of losing thier positions.

I can only report what I have been told from multiple sources which confirm each others' accounts - I cannot say that any of this is the truth for certain. I say that mostly for my own protection - but I will add that I wouldn't post this if it didn't sound credible to me, again considering where it is coming from.


Apparently when the venture capitalists who purchased Rackham and saved them from potential bankruptcy did so, they didn’t understand what, precisely, Rackham did as a company. They thought it was a toy company (which is ironic considering some of the conversations I’ve had with people about how to classify AT-43 minis), and now they don’t want to own a game company.

The plan is to release everything AT-43 which is already finished, which is to say everything that was developed prior to the buyout specifically the remaining Cogs units, Oni, and the Krygs, but then that’s it – and they will then change Rackham Entertainment over to an actual toy company.

This is why plans for an 8th race in AT-43 were canceled (as no sculpting had taken place yet) and why the Rackham Legends line was canceled and why any plans for unpainted mini lines have been dropped.

Jean Bey is apparently the only reason why Rackham Entertainment is continuing to do anything it’s doing, and he’s been locked out of most business decisions. It’s already known that Paolo Parente left the company, and apparently if AT-43 wasn’t so big in the United States the game might have been canceled already.



Okay, I can see why most of the Sentinels would want to suppress this information. On the surface, it doesn’t sound good; but I think suppressing this is not seeing the forest for the trees. There’s good with the bad, namely:

AT-43 is generating a profit in the United States. It’s just not enough to sway the corporate owners of Rackham Entertainment yet.

This is all about money, of course. If AT-43 sells, the game won’t die. Rackham Entertainment will keep supporting it – or someone may pony up the money to purchase the rights to AT-43 from them and keep the game going themselves.

It’s really important that all you AT-43 fans, if you had any inclinations to do demos, to try and organize tournaments, or do anything else which may lead to increased sales for AT-43, that you do so now. In my experience businesspeople are often stubborn, pig-headed, and once they form an opinion on something they can only be swayed through dollar signs.

If they’ve decided that they’re not going to support AT-43 past what’s already been produced, meaning no 2nd Edition rulebook, no new campaigns like Frostbite, no new ANYTHING past what already exists, and ostensibly very limited restocking, the only thing that’s going to change their minds is if they see profit margins on AT-43 standing out from those financial reports.

IMHO, the AT-43 community needs to step up tournaments at FLGS. Get those Army Boxes up on shelves. That’s something that the RE corporate masters should notice. Get the product stocked in stores. I’ve only seen them once in my FLGS, and they didn’t get shown off to anyone, they were just used over in the corner and no one paid much attention to them.

The status quo is not enough to convince Rackham Entertainment that they should continue supporting AT-43. Forewarned, you are now armed with the knowledge that your efforts to promote AT-43 and increase sales really DO matter in the grand scheme of things, not just within your local neighborhoods and groups of game players.

Do not be satisfied that things are fine just as they are and that AT-43 is doing well as it stands. If you want to have a living game past 2010 in terms of continuing to see new units, new rules supplements, and company support, the game needs to grow more than it has been doing so up until this point.

To wit, what I wrote earlier this year in terms of the fate of AT-43 depending on the Army Boxes seems to be more true than even I had thought. Luckily, it looks like the Oni Army Box may be something that AT-43 fans can promote well. It's a tool you are being given to help sell the game. While being a salesperson was never my bag of tricks, and the other big reason why I left the Sentinel program, if you think it might be yours now would be a good time to find out.

Cairnius wrote:
Apparently when the venture capitalists who purchased Rackham and saved them from potential bankruptcy did so, they didn’t understand what, precisely, Rackham did as a company. They thought it was a toy company (which is ironic considering some of the conversations I’ve had with people about how to classify AT-43 minis), and now they don’t want to own a game company.

I forsaw this, but not in this way. It beggers belief that financial backers would buy up a company and not know what it does. It more likely in fact that they knew what Rackham did, but want to do something else anyway. If this is the case AT-43 is likely doomed, with Confrontation leading the way off the cliff.

Cairnius wrote:
The plan is to release everything AT-43 which is already finished, which is to say everything that was developed prior to the buyout specifically the remaining Cogs units, Oni, and the Krygs, but then that’s it – and they will then change Rackham Entertainment over to an actual toy company.

This logically means a cancellation of race 8.

Cairnius wrote:
This is why plans for an 8th race in AT-43 were canceled (as no sculpting had taken place yet)

As happening, though with the race not being currently mentioned it makes sense to drop it whole cloth even if AT-43 was saved. Confrontation also needs to lose at least half its factions.

Cairnius wrote:
and why the Rackham Legends line was canceled and why any plans for unpainted mini lines have been dropped.

The mistake. Rackham has lost on Legends sales except for the Grim Golem Overseer fro what I have heard. What does this mean: drop the Confrontation Legends carry on with AT-43 Legends. Well not exactly the best way forward is to double the range of vehicles, yes double, if not more. Simply by selling resin weapons and the force card seperately.

So for example a new Fire Toad variant we will call the Incinerator equipped with two flamers. Adding a new Fire Toad adds a lot to the UNA line, but all you need to sell are two resin flamers with plug in connectors and two cards. I can guarantee the vehicle variant packs would sell. Especially once you get resin alternate weaponry for *** vehicles, I know I would buy, wouldn't you?

Next you can add a number of special characters, about two or three for each line in metal or resin. Again there is no reason they wont sell and make money, yes they are not prepaint, but the base line, if you want to double your vehicle range and special character allocation you need to get painting. I dont think that is a hard pill to swallow the ranges are pretty well covered otherwise, transports excepting.

Cairnius wrote:
Okay, I can see why most of the Sentinels would want to suppress this information. On the surface, it doesn’t sound good; but I think suppressing this is not seeing the forest for the trees. There’s good with the bad, namely:

Remember most Sentinels are dancing to the tune, you know this more than anyone else, with me second.

Cairnius wrote:
While I won’t disclose names of sources, this information comes from Rackham Sentinels and their conversations with Jean Bey and Paolo Parente from GenCon this year. Considering the nature of the sources I find the information credible, mostly because I cannot fathom why they would want to make stuff like this up and then give it to ME of all people.

This is why the info was given to you, assuming its not an enormous tail pull, you are already a heretic Cairnius and thus are a good dissemination route. There is no internal peer pressure to silence you, because you are not on the inside. Allowing for how critics are handled I can see other Sentinels not wanting to make waves, but you have nothing more to lose by talking.
also it has to be some form of Sentinel because Rackham is small enough that as a general rumour its largely worthless. AT-fortywho? Its not Warmachine, Warhammer or Battletech, most nerds wont rage if this one goes down.

Cairnius wrote:
AT-43 is generating a profit in the United States. It’s just not enough to sway the corporate owners of Rackham Entertainment yet.

Rackham is selling in the US because of lower prices which in turn stem from the firesales. The dollar price is the pound or euro price, which is not good, and online discounts of a further 20-40% seal the deal. Rackham has priced the game out of the European market, because they are still thinking of 2000AP armies costing a gamers budget. Sorry that wont compete with the big boys. When you see an overpackaged open front box on the shelf in the UK you see how little you are getting for your lot of money.

UK price for an infantry boxset usually 18.00GBP, and this is from Maelstrom which has a good low pricing as H.B.M.C. will attest. This calculates as 29.55USD by todays exchange rates.

US price for an infantry boxset usually 18.99USD to 23.99USD, from Warstore, 22.50USD from Miniatures Market, ignoring firesale items.

Rackham prices are evn more assinine, 30.00EUR for a standard infantry boxset, equivalent to 44.15USD either directly or converted twice via GBP rates. Thats a stupid stupid price, European members on the Rackham forums often talk about how they are getting their stuff from the USA. UK traders I have met have reacted to news that potential customers are buying from the US with chagrin. Talk about getting your Warmachine items from the US, not a problem, talk about getting At-43 and its all talk of customs charges, missing international post et al. To them the lost sales on the range is a BIG issue, I suspect they feel market starved.

Cairnius wrote:
This is all about money, of course. If AT-43 sells, the game won’t die. Rackham Entertainment will keep supporting it – or someone may pony up the money to purchase the rights to AT-43 from them and keep the game going themselves.

In other words Mongoose? It might happen.

Cairnius wrote:
It’s really important that all you AT-43 fans, if you had any inclinations to do demos, to try and organize tournaments, or do anything else which may lead to increased sales for AT-43, that you do so now. In my experience businesspeople are often stubborn, pig-headed, and once they form an opinion on something they can only be swayed through dollar signs.

From my perspective this is where AT-44 comes in, if they wont fix the system fix it without them.

Cairnius wrote:
If they’ve decided that they’re not going to support AT-43 past what’s already been produced, meaning no 2nd Edition rulebook, no new campaigns like Frostbite, no new ANYTHING past what already exists, and ostensibly very limited restocking, the only thing that’s going to change their minds is if they see profit margins on AT-43 standing out from those financial reports.

That makes my job easier.

Cairnius wrote:
IMHO, the AT-43 community needs to step up tournaments at FLGS. Get those Army Boxes up on shelves.

Nope, Rackham is sticking the finger to its resellers like Rackham of old did. the ONUI Toad Pandemonium has been canceled, have Rackham bothered to tell retailers so they can remove the pre-order listings and not piss off the customers, no they havent. You can still pre-order the non-existent vehicle. People will be angry, because they will lose money on the pre-orders if there was a dollar translation, and if not they will be disappointed. Retailers will also be angry.

While on this note you could have an ONI Toad Pandemonium easily enough, you cast the resin guns, print the cards and get people to convert their own. Then you wont look at this as a short changed codex option, but look at it as a freebee extension.

Cairnius wrote:
The status quo is not enough to convince Rackham Entertainment that they should continue supporting AT-43. Forewarned, you are now armed with the knowledge that your efforts to promote AT-43 and increase sales really DO matter in the grand scheme of things, not just within your local neighborhoods and groups of game players.

As we have seen the stagnant mindset infects the Sentinels and company alike, it could be avoided with a little bit of attention. But thats the original unresolved problem, lets focus on the new one for this thread.

Cairnius wrote:
Do not be satisfied that things are fine just as they are and that AT-43 is doing well as it stands. If you want to have a living game past 2010 in terms of continuing to see new units, new rules supplements, and company support, the game needs to grow more than it has been doing so up until this point.

Do our own if they don't, make the game for 5000AP armies, add the new units for us to scratchbuild if Rackham Legends wont carry the concept. We can succeed with this on our own as gamers, its how 40K firast did vehicles after all, and many others besdies. Its whether it will be left to us to that is the issue.

Cairnius wrote:
To wit, what I wrote earlier this year in terms of the fate of AT-43 depending on the Army Boxes seems to be more true than even I had thought. Luckily, it looks like the Oni Army Box may be something that AT-43 fans can promote well. It's a tool you are being given to help sell the game. While being a salesperson was never my bag of tricks, and the other big reason why I left the Sentinel program, if you think it might be yours now would be a good time to find out.

I concur, and have been watching this initiative, but Army boxes are flash sales, unit boxes and a decent sized range are for the retention. Prepaint is great, but you do not get the full game immersion without the game making side of the hobby. Painting an army is a pain, but painting a single special character or the new gun variant is more fun and still totally avoidable if the core PPP range is big enough for each list, which it is for the first four armies at least.
This again is where Legends can help by adding a slow flow of add ons to every list.



Now some thoughts on the integrity of the information. While not fully indicative I can see patterns which support Cairnius' information.

First we have the logo change.



The old dragon logo was a games company logo, the new logo is a toy company logo. Anyone else notice this?

Second the cancellation of the ONI Toad Pandemonium, this was described in the early fluff for ONI so it was something they were clearly core to the army theme. Purchased or looted UNA vehicle hardware with IIRC zombie and hallucogenic armament rather than direct fire weaponry. Clearly a twisted fire Toad for a twisted megacorporation. Gone.

Third the poverty of the ranges for Confrontation other than Wolfen Dirz and Temple. Not much new for lions is coming out yet Ram is well on the way to release with half the items shown. from what I can gather the armies subsequent to the first three appear to be no more than 70% of the size of the original range. Collapsing the range by cancelling some armies makes sense, Confrontation is overstretched, but each army made should have a decent range of minitures. I don't see Rackham coming up with the goods on army range here.

Fourth, no sign of moves on the AT-43 transports. Though I am not one for definitive answers on that, pin someone else, Blokhead possibly.

Thanks for the info. I'm not really sure how anything I do will change a bean counter's mind. Whether I buy 5K's worth of AT-43 armies or own 5K's worth of GW xenos armies I'm still not having any influence over what does or does not get produced.

I just started re-reading Atlas Shrugged. How oddly similar.

It takes way more money and resources to change Rackham from a gaming to a toy company. No business sense executive will do that. Peope who read this discussion should simply move on to other areas of their interest. I hope that the thread stops here.

Orlanth, I found out more about the Pandemonium.

The problem is actually on Alliance's side, not RE's. The code being used is for the Light Enforcer(iirc), but Alliance didn't change the name on their lists from the Pandemonium(the code's original product) to the Light Enforcer(the code's ACTUAL product) name. European Distributors have the correct name on the code.

wildger wrote:It takes way more money and resources to change Rackham from a gaming to a toy company. No business sense executive will do that. Peope who read this discussion should simply move on to other areas of their interest. I hope that the thread stops here.

Interesting opinion, if you have anything to back it up. Show us your reasoning please, blank dismissals are worthless, especially if they call for a thread end. You cant have the last word if you have nothing to say, yes?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Platuan4th wrote:Orlanth, I found out more about the Pandemonium.

The problem is actually on Alliance's side, not RE's. The code being used is for the Light Enforcer(iirc), but Alliance didn't change the name on their lists from the Pandemonium(the code's original product) to the Light Enforcer(the code's ACTUAL product) name. European Distributors have the correct name on the code.

Thanks for that news. At least it confirms that the Pandemonium has been canceled, if anyone in the Sentinel cadre can get hold of the concept rules and points values we can convert our own from Damocles Fire Toads and bitz.

In any event if a distributor messes up its likely because they haven't been informed properly, if I can find something is wrong with the ordering as a potential customer who has made no pre-orders, how much sooner should Rackham have noticed and sent out word. Besides some of the pre-order sites I linked to in the other thread were European based sellers, so not everyone over here has got the message yet either.

Well, between this and the price-raise clusterfeth that is Games Workshop, it seems that some desperate actions are going to be required to save the future of miniature gaming. I know that my FLGS discounted all of their stuff for the Starship Troopers game 50% off and it didn't sell.

wildger wrote:It takes way more money and resources to change Rackham from a gaming to a toy company.

It doesn't, actually. The main thing is the ownership of production facilities, which Rackham Entertainment already has. Someone said they bought a factory for themselves. If that's not true, they certainly have deals with factories and have all the infrastructure laid to produce toys.

There's very little difference between AT-43 miniatures and Star Wars toys produced by Hasbro. All Rackham Entertainment needs to do is to develop new products, advertise them, and sell them. They already make toys. They're just toys connected to a game.

It would actually be amazingly easy to make this switch.

Cairnius wrote: The main thing is the ownership of production facilities, which Rackham Entertainment already has. Someone said they bought a factory for themselves. If that's not true, they certainly have deals with factories and have all the infrastructure laid to produce toys.

I don't think they own their own factories considering there was a group of Chinese businessmen with us at GenCon that were introduced to us as "the factory owners". Of course, they could also be partner owners with Rackham, I don't know how Chinese law works regarding such things.

Interesting and, if true, a bit unfortunate.

As long as I get an ONI army, I won't be too disappointed though.

Platuan4th wrote:I don't think they own their own factories considering there was a group of Chinese businessmen with us at GenCon that were introduced to us as "the factory owners". Of course, they could also be partner owners with Rackham, I don't know how Chinese law works regarding such things.

Well, it did seem odd to me that a Sentinel once told me that Rackham "owned" a factory. It's really neither here nor there, though. The point stands that switching over to a toy company really isn't a big deal to get done.

I thought about an Oni army too, Strahd, but I just can't justify spending $400 on an army for game that's slated to die as of right now. If the AT-43 community can turn things around and I see it getting played around here I would change my mind.

The truth is, I'm kind of bummed out about this news. I'm really tired of painting miniatures. I just want to play games. AT-43 had a shot at success, but the business side of things was so mis-managed that the game, and the company, killed itself.

I've heard tale that Jean Bey used to send entire shipments of minis back to the factories because he wasn't pleased with the quality, and that this had a whole lot to do with the stock shortages people had to deal with, for example.

Replies to bilesuck are not necessary. I'm just leaving this as a pleasing reminder that people do in fact get banned.

Bilesuck is just an angry ex-Confrontation player who got screwed by Rackham when they cancelled the metal minis and transformed the game into a PPP system that mirrors AT-43. Yet he spends an inordinate amount of time helping Rackham out by doing free work for AT-43.

They won't ban him from the official AT-43 forums because they need all the help they can get over there. My Sentinel contacts tell me that a bunch of Sentinels have quit over Rackham Entertainment's new direction and the shoddy communication they get with the company. I guess they can't afford to lose Bilesuck even if he's been so rude over there so as to run new posters to their boards off.

P.R. isn't Rackham's strongest suit.

A moderator said:

Okay, let's remember that we don't comment on ex-users who are not here to defend themselves.

Also let's not malign Rackham or other companies by hearsay and rumour.

Please keep comments polite and objective.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Taking off moderator hat...

If Rackham were to close doors it would be a pity. On the plus side, there would be a fire sale of all AT43 stuff for people who are interested, but you would need to grab everything you could as quickly as possible.

I've never believed that a game dies because the company that published it has gone. The AT43 boxed sets seem like nearly a complete game in a box like Space Hulk.

Cairnius wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:I don't think they own their own factories considering there was a group of Chinese businessmen with us at GenCon that were introduced to us as "the factory owners". Of course, they could also be partner owners with Rackham, I don't know how Chinese law works regarding such things.

Well, it did seem odd to me that a Sentinel once told me that Rackham "owned" a factory.

No, Rackham-Entertainment has a Chinese manufacturer for their plastic products. Rackham used to own a foundry, but that was sold when Rackham was purchased and turned into Rackham-Entertainment (heralding the death of the metal miniatures).

I've heard tale that Jean Bey used to send entire shipments of minis back to the factories because he wasn't pleased with the quality, and that this had a whole lot to do with the stock shortages people had to deal with, for example.

It is a tale, hearsay, and conjecture.

As to your OP, most of that is WAY off base. I was at GenCon, I was there during the "conversations", and I will admit some of what you wrote has merit, but putting makeup on a pig still leaves you with a pig when all is said and done.

The tale of Jean Bey sending back minis came from a FLGS owner. I called it a "tale" on purpose because I don't know if it's true or not...but it's one explanation for product shortages so seemed worth considering...


If you can correct the record, Blokhead, please do! Let us know what, in your opinion, is true. I'd prefer the truth be out there rather than anything off base.

Like I said, all I know is what Sentinels told me, and they being the hardest of the hardcore fans of AT-43 I couldn't see why they'd lie to me. They also specifically talked about getting all this from Jean Bey one night at GenCon after the exhibitions had ended and Paolo left...if they hadn't told me it came straight from JB, I wouldn't have paid much heed to it. This didn't strike me as "rumor" but "reporting."


We had the "live or dead" conversation in another thread, Kill...basically I proffered the idea that it had nothing to do with how many people played a game but whether or not the game was in active production from a company and still seeing new units, new rules supplements, and restocking on store shelves.

I suppose I'm going off the idea that a "living" thing is something which is still growing. Once a company stops producing product, the game isn't growing anymore, hence "dead" from my perspective.

I just hope that this isn't Rackham Entertainment's way of scaring people into stripping the shelves of their products to boost sales.

I'll be honest with you - part of why I posted this, I think, was so that someone could tell me none of it was true. I am STILL thinking about Oni, even after being told all of this. I bought a bunch of stuff during the firesale, had full UNA, Red Blok, and Therian armies 7,500 AP+. I had to get rid of two of them but kept UNA, and I wouldn't mind having another army so that I could teach people the game with two armies.

Hell, I still think about purchasing all the Army Books because I really, really like the AT-43 fluff. I could see owning one Army Box from each army just so I had like a historical record of the game if and when it goes away.

If it can be proven that AT-43 is going to be alive, well, and growing for the next 5 years, I'd want to know. Then I could purchase Oni with confidence...but I can't see dropping $150 on everything coming out in November and then like $250 more on all the other units when they come out if the game isn't going to be around past 2010. :(

Cairnius wrote:Bilesuck is just an angry ex-Confrontation player who got screwed by Rackham when they cancelled the metal minis and transformed the game into a PPP system that mirrors AT-43.

They won't ban him from the official AT-43 forums because they need all the help they can get over there.

Hey, that sounds a bit like me!

Though I did get banned from the official Confrontation forums for my critical view of their switch over.

They eventually let me back in, but all that was left were tumbleweeds and a cavernous echo anytime someone (very) occasionally had anything to say...

warpcrafter wrote:I just hope that this isn't Rackham Entertainment's way of scaring people into stripping the shelves of their products to boost sales.

It wouldn't surprise me...

I had heard as much as Cairnus, though the timeline I heard was much sooner. This got me very bummed out. I would not want to continue investing time and money into a game that could potentially be canceled next year. Hopefully this is not true. I want AT-3 to be around for a long time because I really do enjoy it. (With a few OP/UP unit aggravations)

Actually over at the AT-43 Forums one of the RE spokesman responded to all of this. unfortunately it is all in the sentinels only section so I am not sure if I can post it here. It seemed to indicate that RE was going to continue on with AT-43 and is still making and designing new units and armies for it...

For me, AT-43 is an awesome, awesome game. I love not having to paint the figures and the ppp jobs are pretty decent all around (wolfen army box being the sad exception) for tabletop wargaming standards. Something about having a fully painted army is great. Also them being plastic makes them much lighter to carry around and you can store them in a box since they are more durable than fancy painted metal. I have my whole armies in plastic ziplock bags grouped by squads, and stored in a big cardboard box. No foam needed, and no need to remember the exact spots that the minis go into the foam either. If something falls off a dab of superglue fixes it right up.

Also, AT-43 is a hobby for me. This means that I want to continue buying NEW units and learning NEW strategies. Sure, I could continue to play a game that is no longer supported (ie: dead) and I could even make up my own new units for it to keep it "alive". However, this feels more like holding onto something that is long gone just because I remember how cool it used to be. I don't want to play "old" games that don't have new things to buy and learn. It's a hobby for me and that means I get new things from the company that made the game, and I get to look forward to those things each month (or every few months). While I can make my own excitement, I'd rather get it from the company making my favorite game.

I understand the idea of a game being dead.

The alternative perspective is that if the models are good, the rules are good, and you have two good sized armies, you don't need constant changes and new releases to continue to play and enjoy the game.

From my viewpoint, Classic Battletech was spoiled by the continual releasing of more and more mechs and rules. It's something that annoys me about 40K too.

Some of the AT43 stuff will work with other models. For example, you could use the Cogs or Therians as smaller size enemy models against a platoon of Halo Clix figures, which are cheap but oversized compared to regular 28mm figures.

I'm not saying I wish Rackham would die, just that if they did go under, your armies are still completely useable.

Kilkrazy makes a good point.

I'd like to see ONI and Cogs fully released.

I completely agree with KillKrazy.

Being slightly facetious, but when a company stops production, the miniatures and rules you own do not spontaneously melt into unusable slag. I will still be playing the game for quite a while yet, irrespective of whether Rackham are still producing it or not.

I’m not saying anything as Willy Wonka-esque as “A game is only as dead as your imagination,” but the physical models can still be used for whatever suitable gaming purposes one wants. Orlanth suggested using them as Imperial Guard before, and I have used Grim Golems with my old 1st Edition Space Hulk before. They fit the squares exactly and in my mind heavily armed and armoured human troopers versus killer robots works rather nicely. Grim Golems are perfect “counts as genestealers.”

One way or another I would not lay down my euros for anything that I had the slightest doubt about being able to find a use for, and so ONI are still on my “to buy list,” for AT-43 and other things.

Pre-painted zom-bombs and the soon-to-be-printed version of Incursion anyone?

Strahd wrote: Orlanth suggested using them as Imperial Guard before, and I have used Grim Golems with my old 1st Edition Space Hulk before. They fit the squares exactly and in my mind heavily armed and armoured human troopers versus killer robots works rather nicely. Grim Golems are perfect “counts as genestealers.”

Or Legions of Steel!



I came into AT-43 knowing at any point it could fail. Hell, I thought it was failing when I bought into it during the first fire sale.

I am used to playing games that go unsupported, support is based in another country, or die off. Legions of Steel, Space Hulk, Charlie Company, B5 Wars, Heavy Gear, and many more.

I do not sit around and cry or post continuously like a vulture waiting for any of them to die off. Nor do I make predictions on how long the company will last. I buy what I need and play.

My advice for anyone getting into ANY game is make sure you have people around you who are interested in playing or have a couple armies so you can give someone an army to play. Otherwise, you are just wasting your money.

Anyway, I have my game crew, I have a couple armies, and there is a game store within an hour drive that has AT-43 game days. I am happy and not worried.

Killcrazy has it right.

Alpha Forge's Star Mogul is dead.... literally, the designer sold the business and then had an injury so no more models, the company that now has the rights doesn't produce anything.... Great system and you can proxy...... Proxy, Proxy. Sure no tourney's etc.. but it's not being supported anyway so no tourney's.

I'll be buying up everything I can for AT-43. The game rocks and even if the paint job sucks, I can always repaint.

I didn't come into AT-43 knowing it could fail. If I thought it was a company on the outs I never would have bought in. I thought AT-43 was an established player in the industry...I listened to the fans too much. Fool me once, shame on you...which is why I ask a LOT of questions now about this game, especially if I'm having ANY interest in getting any more of it like I am with Oni.

It would be nice if I could find some other use for AT-43 minis, but no dice. The only 40K army I could see proxying UNA for would be IG, but I'm not very into the Guard, and I couldn't use them in tourneys so I'd rather spend my 40K time mastering armies I can actually use in the friendly and very active local tournament circle, if I feel inclined to play 40K at all (which I do less and less).

It was suggested I could use UNA minis for Necromunda somehow, but I've never had much interest in that game...

I suppose I could repaint them as I'm an excellent painter, but I have a huge backlog of 40K stuff to paint, and a FoW army to finish transfers and flocking on, so my modeling/painting time needs to go elsewhere.


I care about how long the company will last because there's always the time factor. The longer a company is around, the more legit they can seem to other gamers who are usually, and understandably, reticent to try new games due to the cost involved. Even with $61 shipped Army Boxes now if the perception is out there that a game is on the way out many gamers, whose priority is ease of finding games, will not buy in. I'd say the majority of my gaming friends are married such that we get one night a week to game, so if the game isn't played at our club, we're not playing it.

If Rackham was going to be around for a while I could see getting an Oni army and then idly teaching a few friends of mine to play AT-43 using the pair of armies, and then perhaps someone, finally, at my club would bite and we'd get a small nucleus of weekly gamers working AT-43 into the rotation. That would be awesome...but once bitten, twice shy.

So, it's worth it to me to be a vulture and pass on news about RE's future to see if anyone has any information to prove what the Sentinels told me is wrong...and so far, nothing concrete has been said. Someone needs to break the veil of silence around Rackham Entertainment that's been plaguing them since they were old Rackham. They need to start talking.

OK all you Negative Nancy's & Doubting Donna's Im going out on a limb here I really hope I dont get into much trouble for posting this .
It seems they do read this forum if your wondering....

Well, for those of you who were at GenCon, care to share what you do know? names deleted? (you seem to be a happy poster at DakkaDakka)? Perhaps even Martin?


Sure thing.

First, let me tell you I can only concur with what Cairnius says over there. Excellent advice. All of you who joined the Sentinel program did so because you were eager to support the game (or else something's wrong, but I don't see any of you joining for another reason) and the way to do so is to be as active as possible on a local level. I don't think either Cairnius or myself are really teaching you anything new there though

As for the rest of his little (well, in a manner of speaking I guess) speech, I have to disagree though...
AT-43 profitability has waned in the last two years because of numerous problems we all know of, the first of which was a near-stop to news releases. There was still a great potential to the game though and the company that bought Rackham from Jean did so because they believed in this potential he was telling them about. Had it not been the case, the cost-effective thing to do would have been to let Rackham just die and then hire the creative staff to work on other projects.

Want proof of this? I think army boxes are a pretty good one. They're an attempt to solve the big problem the game faced, that limited its number of players: complicated entry into the game (both the amount of money and boxes you need to start an army). Changing all production plans to releases these boxes rather than unit and hero boxes sure wasn't simple nor free, but it was worth it because it allows the player base to grow. And it's working: the boxes have already sold far more than the smaller boxes we were releasing in previous months. We're just waiting to see to what extent they will work. Would the company have done the extra efforts if it just wanted to sweep the game under the rug?
As a side note, the "the 8th race got cancelled because nothing was sculpted so far" doesn't hold anything. Know why? Because nothing's sculpted for Krygs either - they're just getting into actual designing phase. Paolo's supposed to start working on them tomorrow, in fact But would we start this 7th race if there was no intention to carry on?
(Besides, if it was all about no additional costs, you would never have seen the Cogs or ONI for that matter. Miniatures may be scuplted all you want, the real moment you start shedding cash is when you order production, which is still happening every month. I think 4 new armies launched into production in the second half of 2009 is no alarming record, on the contrary).

I'm definitely not claiming everything's doing perfect. There are indeed lots of things that need to be improved and some of them are already in the works - I'm thinking of the new website for example, that will have a regularly updated blog for the studio to keep the information flowing about what's going on. You can't imagine how much I want that site to go live... Which hopefully will happen in December.

With all that said - the game is on the upswing right now thanks to new products. It needs your help more than ever. It amuses me to no end that Cairnius "inside information" could be so wrong and his conclusions so right
_________________
Martin TERRIER - Rackham Entertainment community manager

Thank you very much for posting that, Saint. I still have questions, of course.

Why does Martin say that Paolo is supposed to start working on the Krygs when he left Rackham Entertainment already? Is everyone who said Paolo has left the company lying? I've even seen people talking about Paolo having left on the AT-43 forums and no one's corrected them...

As for the rest of what he said...talking about why the venture capitalists bought Rackham Entertainment doesn't speak to their reported desire to turn Rackham E. into a toy company. What they bought the company for in the past has no bearing on what they plan to do with it in the future.

If what Jean Bey said about their looking to turn RE into a toy company is false, I want to hear it from them. The Army Boxes aren't proof that this isn't true, and if what Jean Bey said about being locked out of business decisions is true then what belief they put into the potential of the game based on what HE told them doesn't really matter much anymore. I want to hear that he's still involved in these business decisions.

Martin's also doing a little bit of a straw man dance here...the Sentinels didn't say that the venture capitalists wanted to sweep AT-43 under the rug when they first bought the company. The decision to produce the Army Boxes would have been made like a year or so ago, right? In order to change over the production lines and do all that prep work? Again, that was then and this is now...according to Martin even RE doesn't know if the Army Box initiative is working yet, so that just seems to lend credence to what Jean Bey told the Sentinels.

From my understanding of business, the decision to launch 4 armies into production was made a while ago. What Jean Bey was talking about was the future, and attitudes within the company. Martin seems like he's doing a little bait-and-switch here and speaking to the past, not the present.

Also, if Martin is paying attention - you may want to get your Sentinel house in order. You have Sentinels feeding me information that you claim is false but they swear is stuff they heard from Jean Bey himself at GenCon. You can't both be right...and you obviously want to put the best light on the company that issues your paycheck. Can't blame you for it, but perhaps you can answer some of these other, obvious questions I've mentioned.

Especially about Paolo. I don't see how he's working on the Krygs when he's left the company.

ON EDIT:

Also, Martin - if AT-43 is really generating a profit in the United States, tell us! At least confirm some news I got that I thought was GOOD. I know you probably have to speak for the company's entire market, and may not want to focus on one region over another, but it seems like everyone already knows that AT-43 isn't selling as well in Europe because the American prices are just SO much better.

If Americans have the ability to keep AT-43 going strong by boosting sales here and proving that we're a strong market for the game, let us know!

Would it be to much to ask you to not reply on a first name basis. I know you know who i know and you know who I know that you know....lol