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Ian Sturrock wrote:Aren't Oblits caused by a disease...? Sounds kinda Nurgle-friendly to me!

Nope. They are caused by a daemon "tech-virus". Oblits are mainly ex-tech marines and mechanicum that have wandered into wanting more power or better weapons and have gave themself to chaos.

I always say use summoned lesser daemons with deathguard for the extra attacks when they get stuck in.

I say ... be careful.
No use in allowing the opponent to win combat if they direct attacks at the LD's and no the PM's...

But YMMV.

I generally leave my LD's to assault things solo...then again a 20 man squad can hold its own for at least 2 turns.

I always say use summoned lesser daemons with deathguard for the extra attacks when they get stuck in.

That sounds interesting.
The PM's can safely deliver the Daemons.

EzeKK wrote:

Ian Sturrock wrote:Aren't Oblits caused by a disease...? Sounds kinda Nurgle-friendly to me!

Nope. They are caused by a daemon "tech-virus".

Right. But daemons, presumably, are mostly aligned to one or other of the Chaos Gods, and you'd have thought that Nurgle had province over viruses, as a subset of diseases -- including computer viruses.

Or, at least, I personally wouldn't see a problem with a set of obviously Nurgley Oblits, oozing with slime and maggots, playing up the "infected" aspect. I wouldn't have a problem with the concept that even if the daemon tech-virus hadn't originated with Nurgle, it had at least been co-opted by him in one form or another, as another disease to spread for his own advantage.

This socalled 'tech-virus' is something different from the virus(es) from which the Nurgle Marines do suffer.

Another problem with PM’s delivering LD’s (besides the possibility of a horrible combat resolution) is the issue of delivery.
Sure they are tough, but generally that means lower model count.
Lower model count means that there could be some sniping if wound allocation goes round-robin.



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Oblits are their own cult in the old fluff and this fluff.
If one goes by pure fluff that GW gives then they are purely on their own and generally sell their services...

Just my 2 cents re: a pure Nurgle army.

My challenge is for you to create a CSM army that is not lead by a Daemon Prince. The winged Prince is obviously a really efficient HQ, but it would be interesting to see a force that is comprised mostly of Death Guard marines in power armor and terminator armor, accompanied by some Lesser Daemons and armor.

Chaos Lord in Terminator armor and daemon weapon(because he gets the best of the equipment)
Sorceror in power armor, maybe with palanquin mount because it makes for some cool conversion possibilities.

Lots of Death Guard in Rhinos with various loadouts
Maybe be crazy and have a giant squad of 20 Death Guard?

Nurgle-marked Terminators in possessed Landraider. Lots of good articles online about Nurgling up terminator armor.

Possessed that are heavily modelled up to be totally infested marines?

Taking advantage of the unit entry for Lesser Daemons. You can have a mix of Daemons models and other GW models, all in one big group (Plaguebearers, Vampire Counts Ghouls and Zombies, Nurgled up Daemonettes, etc.)

Defilers look great when Nurgled up IMO. You could even do one of those conversions where the upper half is a plastic GW giant!

Finally, re: the Obliterators. You could have them be the one mercenary element of the army and stand out with a regular Black Legion paint scheme.

Hope these ideas are helpful,

Blackbone

@Blackbone:

Terminators with icons are not really ‘pure’ nurgle.
Lesser daemons, are not really nurgle dedicated, nor are vehicles.

As others have said in the past, it’s ALL count as. These are not arbitrary restrictions…anything can be made fluffy these days as GW has almost just told us to take whatever and make up a story to make it make sense.

Termy armor is really a meh upgrade, the daemon weapon is ok, but meh.
Termies in a LR: is very, very, and sadly underwhelming.
The palanquin is IMO a waste of points.
Meh, keep to 7 and 14, can’t make a 21 man squad without an IC.

20 mans are ‘for the lulz’ but 14 is really enough for large footslogging purposes.

Possessed are again, not really pure Nurgle as they use the icon system.
PMs are points intensive already.
I would suggest Possessed if everything is meched. If you do go with slogging elements, I’d suggest against possessed and save the points for more bodies on slogging.

Lesser daemons: just keep consistant…

Defilers are ‘meh’ for pure DeathGuard, they are essentially Black Legion stuff gifted to everyone…and can’t be ‘dedicated’ to Nurgle in the traditional sense.

Again, pure Deathguard take no mercenaries…blah blah blah.

You are blending ‘pure’ and ‘count as’… it’s not pure.
Pure in the strictest sense would be anything with Mark of Nurgle and we’ll allow un-Nurgle-dedicated vehicles join the fray…the only ‘pure’ Deathguard these days are:

Daemon Prince, Lord, Sorc, Plague marines….then the vehicles.

Now… if you loosen the self-restrictions, it’s count as, bam… there you have it.

Lash Prince, Plagues, 9 oblits… GW will tell you, you can make it fluffy….

Trolling.

Opinion and helpful ideas were given.

- Blackbone

Well, my post was not controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant, or off-topic messages.

It's all about DeathGuard, cautions about using a combo that is questionable.
I was replying that everyone's definitions of DeathGuard are different.
One person's 'pure' is another's 'count as'.

The only time I addressed you directly was here:

You are blending ‘pure’ and ‘count as’… it’s not pure.
Pure in the strictest sense would be anything with Mark of Nurgle and we’ll allow un-Nurgle-dedicated vehicles join the fray…the only ‘pure’ Deathguard these days are:

Daemon Prince, Lord, Sorc, Plague marines….then the vehicles.

Now… if you loosen the self-restrictions, it’s count as, bam… there you have it.

That is the basics of my point of view. I didn't 'raise my voice' nor did I use any 'bad' words, or do any insulting.

So... my question now is what is your definition of trolling? It must be widely different than mine, much like our opinions of 'pure' DeathGuard...
So far you are the one doing name calling...
_______________________________________

If you don't like what I have to say, you don't have to reply to it, you can ignore me.
If I was so wrong, explain it so we may have a discussion about it... or we can take this to PMs.../shrug.


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Come to think of it, if I wanted to be a Troll I would have been banned a long time ago...maybe before post number 7...

Reminds me of that guy that was doing an "Iron Warriors" list which consisted of the best of everything in the CSM codex. That was a good laugh.

True, but it really depends.

I'm not joking about taking the most 'Ard lists and making them fluffy.
Fluffy is only restricted by the imagination.

I've read some crazy good stuff explaining a Dark Eldar and Tyranid team up for a Doubles Tounrey.

I can Fluff up a Lash Prince into a Nurgle army as well, it's not too hard.

Something on the lines of:

Not T6, cause he's just a bloated Sorc but with MC status.
MoS is actually cloud of flies (instead of you being faster, the opponent is slowed down).
Lash is the Nurgle power called Nurgle's Dance (it existed in the last codex)

Blah, blah, blah, basically Fluff and a competitivie list are mutually exclusive things.
Now... even 'fluff' has different meanings to different people.

There are those who are 'straight up fluff from the codex' to which they rate lists and such.
It depends on local gaming groups and how they approach issues like this that generally define what we mean by 'fluffy' lists.

I call my list competitive before fluffy, even though I've fluffed everything up, and truthfully, my list is DP, PM, Oblits... though I refuse to use lash princes...

Then there's the convertin aspect that can unify the whole army visually, if not army list-wise.


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Oh yea, it reminds me of the Chaos Hello Kitty Marine army...okkaaayyyy...(for the lulz obviously).

And if you are a true purist, then those plague marines had better be walking. Cause nurgle is all about the slow steady advance, bolters ablazing, and what not.

That's right, and a true DeathGuard player wouldn't use Typhus too, he's a dirty renegade.

Hence, I call my army a Nurgle Warband as GW has told us to . Death Dealers is the name, so it's all up to me really what is fluffy.

If Plague Marines had relentless...then I'll consider footsloggers seriously.
Otherwise, I reserve my 20 man foot squads in fun/casual/fun doubles tournys.

Your fluff definition is changed by the edition too. I'm partial to the 3rd ed book where half of chaos sounded like victim's of the imperium. The books are blurring together now, so some 4th book may slip in.

Each cult had a number, and that had benefits. Some units couldn't have certain marks, which I took to mean cult preference to that tactic. I think nurgle had troops and elites? Couldn't touch raptors and havocs. The fluff of the book was a foot slogging slow moving force. If you run with that logic you have the following options.

everything in 7's.
Demon Prince
Lord
Sorc
Terminators on foot
Maybe Possessed?
Dreads
Chaos Marines (no chosen, unless you do it without infiltrate)
Plague Marines
Lesser Demons
Bikes? Can't remember but leaning no
Spawn
Vindi's are borderline, but the slow rolling idea works.
Oblits are on the fence.
Other heavies, but remember vehicles used to be markable. +1 AV dreads? I miss you too old friend...

No Tzee.... whatever can't spell it.

Do you want your FOC to be fluffy? Your paint job? Your play style?

I'm a play style. I'm still walking my guys across. My other units float between 7 terms, 7 bikers, defilers or vindi's. Depending on my mood that week.

I think Possessed Chaos Space Marines with the MoN are under appreciated and often overlooked. They are a hard hitting assault unit and most if not all of the powers on their table are actually pretty darn good. Plague Marines are so darn good though for the points most players tend to overlook them.

The daemon prince with wings, MoN and warp time is awesome. I also think the summoned greater daemon is also a great choice and has a lot of synergy with the daemon prince... If you field both then you have some MC action going on which works great against a lot of armies.

G

Well, I don't know how frequently you read the boards, but Tri and I have been voicing loudly that Possessed are a functional unit.

8-10 in a rhino with whatever Icon (with remaining points most likely) and they are all set.

And a pet-peeve of mine, they purchase Icons and not marks.

I personally just go with 2 princes, no need to worry about delivery for the Greater daemon.

the_trooper wrote:
Running a fully mech plague marine list backed by oblits and calling it fluffy would pretty much get you the stink eye. I mean, at that point, just add a three eyed lash prince. Do what you will with your toy men but I have a feeling your opponent will think your fluff list is a hard as nails tournament list after he receives his beating.

ive yet to witness anyone giving me the stink eye for this. and adding a lash prince is completly different in this case. something non-cult (oblits) is a hit in the fluff department i do agree, but another cult is something totally different.

my deathguard are a mix of fluff (loads of deathguard) matched with competative aspects (princes and oblits). rhinos are basiclly a meta requirement, and though i have run the slogging list for a good 2 years without them, the curve of games won after including the rhinos has gone up considerably. and yes i know i know, winning isnt everything, but i do break out the flogger list on occassion for a trip down memeory lane.

if and when the deathguard legions codex is released, i wouldnt mind seeing oblits gone from it, hell i WANT to run chaos lords and sorcs, i want rhino slots to be fast attack only, i want plague marine havocs and MoN giving FNP to my lords, i want cult termies back. my major gripe with the current codex is FNP not tranversing over to the lords and sorcs, i know its just FNP, but its a big deal to me. my troopers have it, my lords shouldnt definatly have it.

I too am pretty annoyed about the lack of FNP on the HQs as it seems quite silly. The new Vraks book has a T5 (natural) sorceror who has FNP who now sees the field just about every game along side the plague drone.

It's like they have the icon (without the benefit of a teleport homer) but not the actual mark.

Plague marines are a competitive unit. An incredibly competitive way to use plague marines is to just load up on them. So many that they just don't have the guns take down. Plague marines are probably the best single troop choice in the CSM codex. It's not uncommon for me to field 42+ of the little jerks.

I guess all I'm trying to say (and justify with some obscure stories written by some British people) is that it seems almost unfair to plop down plague marines, one of the hardest and best all around units in the game, and obliterators, which are some of the best all around ranged units in the game. You throw the plague marines in rhinos and you just win in any game short of a tournament.

Can you think of any list that can stand up against 6 rhinos full of plague marines backed by defilers, dps with warptime and oblits? You saturate the field with the most resilient to small arms fire troops fieldable.

Well...nothing is unbeatable.
At the very least it's an annoying army to play against for anyone.

Well, I faced a foot slogging DG army at the GT heat 2008.
The army was centered around two large DG units and bolstered by Nurgle Bikers, Daemons, Greater Daemon, and two DP's.
The army lacked fire support such that my flying circus (mech Eldar) was able to pick it apart.

Pick it apart, yes.
But how big were the bikes...they at least had some speed.

In addition I don't usually see Eldar wipe stuff off the board with soley shooting unless it's something along the lines of mass warwalkers and vypers for some kind of alpha strike.

But if it's mechdar with multiple serpents then meh.

My last Deathguard vs. Thousand Sons public match had 3 10 man squads in rhinos and 2 14 man squads.
They were deployed and run like a reverse pincer...works crazy well for me that game and in the handful afterwards, but not too much exp. with it.

Well, it was a game in the 4th ed, April 2008.
The Bikers were used to deliver Daemons. I don't remember how large this squad was.
But my Fire Dragons, Harlies, Falcons, Serpents, and DA's took care of most of his force.

/shrug.
The CSM codex was this one or the last one?

I had a crazy mean list back then. Actually, many had mean lists back then, all unique too might I say. /sigh.

Well, the actual codices of CSM and Eldar, but in the 4th ed.