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If you are in college now I'd say finish it if you can and then join. Your options in the military tend to be greater if you have a college degree. It also gives you time to consider it. Is there anything like Reserve Officers Training Corp (ROTC) in Australian schools? In the US you aren't committed to the military until between your 3rd and 4th year when you have to go to OSC. If there is that might let you get a taste of it and see where you stand.

It's a tough call Cheese,as JD21290 stated the psychological impact of combat can be staggering.
My Father served in Vietnam,when he came back he had a lot of problems,he had become very abbusive,had substance abuse problems,various other issues witch ultimatly led to he and my Mother seperating...it took him years to "get passed" alot of what happened when he was over there.
Several friend of mine have served in the mid-east (various areas),two have been wounded in action,all have been deeply affected by what they have witnessed.
I'd think long and hard about it Cheese,whatever you decide I wish you the best.

I was in the marines for ten years, and i can honestly say i dont feel i "owe" my country anything. I think the whole concept is ridiculous. I mean, what is "your country" its a system ran by slimy politicians. They make us pay taxes, and we dont get to choose where they get spent.

I joined cos i wanted to join. Oscar Wilde said that patriotism is the virtue of the viscious, and i think never a truer word was spoken. I bet people in the BNP, Klu Klux clan etc all think of themselves as "patriotic"

Join if YOU want to join. But you dont owe anybody anything. My dad has paid half a million pounds in taxes over 40 years, i cant help feel like the country owes us. Not the other way around!

Ahtman wrote:If you are in college now I'd say finish it if you can and then join. Your options in the military tend to be greater if you have a college degree. It also gives you time to consider it. Is there anything like Reserve Officers Training Corp (ROTC) in Australian schools? In the US you aren't committed to the military until between your 3rd and 4th year when you have to go to OSC. If there is that might let you get a taste of it and see where you stand.

College is the end of school here. What you guys call 'college', we call 'TAFE' and 'University'. Private schools are also called 'colleges' here. You get degrees for completing a TAFE/Uni course. When you finish college, you get your TCE, which basically your graduation certificate.

Why not join the Air Force, Navy, firefighting, coast guard, etc?

You don't necessarily have to be a grunt or join the military if you want to have a secure government job that also looks good on a resume.

Hell even in the Army and the Marines you can get a job that'll put you well out of harm's way.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
My vote is for one of those branches (Air Force, Navy), great way to get a career started.

FITZZ: Dont want to intrude mate, but even though your dads passed it now, i take it he still isnt how he used to be?

Ill admit, ive changed alot, death and dying around me mean little unless its one of my unit, who are pretty much my only family now.

even though you get passed it, your never the same, its something thats with you for life.

I would say it depends...
If you wanted to pursue the military as a long-term career, you'd be better off getting some form of higher education in order to qualify for officer training. You can be a fighter-pilot with 3 A levels (IIRC) in the UK.
Also, being Australian you could join the British military as a commonwealth citizen - although this would mean an increased chance of seeing active service in Afghanistan.
How fit are you? Australia has an SAS - they're pretty awesome, by all accounts.

The Australian SAS? Oh man, special forces are for the best of the best, aren't they? I'm no longer unfit, but nowhere near what would be expected by them.

Cheese Elemental wrote:

Ahtman wrote:If you are in college now I'd say finish it if you can and then join. Your options in the military tend to be greater if you have a college degree. It also gives you time to consider it. Is there anything like Reserve Officers Training Corp (ROTC) in Australian schools? In the US you aren't committed to the military until between your 3rd and 4th year when you have to go to OSC. If there is that might let you get a taste of it and see where you stand.

College is the end of school here. What you guys call 'college', we call 'TAFE' and 'University'. Private schools are also called 'colleges' here. You get degrees for completing a TAFE/Uni course. When you finish college, you get your TCE, which basically your graduation certificate.

We call college Universities as well. There is a slight difference but usually they are used interchangeably. Either way, I think you understand what I am saying. Unless this is suddenly a thread about how words are used somewhat differently in different countries.

while the SAS is an option, the training is alot more advanced, its alot longer, and the tours of duty you do will be nowhere near the same.

In unit SAS are know as suicide drops, since they know theres a pretty high chance they wont be comming back.
To join the SAS you have not only got to be fit, but mentally unstable.
Im yet to see anyone join the SAS that doesent have a death wish or is even slightly stable.

dont get me wrong, im not slating them, they are an amazing unit, and the best in the world, but not really the best thing to throw yourself into.
They usually require you to have been in the forces 3+ years, and be within the top 10% of your unit before they will even consider taking you.
However, its not unknown for a new rec. to go straight into the unit.

I myself am happy with my tactical support role, its something i would reccomend if you do join, since you pretty much sit back, getting told what targets to pick out, what to watch for.
also, you get less recon duties, so out on tour you will spend more time in 1 place rather than walking around all day.

Yeah, I wouldn't want to be in the SAS anyway. If I was in the army, I'd be fine with a tactical support role.

You know what they should do? They should make a crack suicide squad, where if you survive the mission, they kill you anyway so you have nothing to lose.

That would be so grimdark.

I was just reading about the Coalition casualties in Afghanistan since 2001. The U.S. has had 848, and Australia has had 11.

I thought we'd lost a lot more than that.

JD21290 wrote:FITZZ: Dont want to intrude mate, but even though your dads passed it now, i take it he still isnt how he used to be?

Ill admit, ive changed alot, death and dying around me mean little unless its one of my unit, who are pretty much my only family now.

even though you get passed it, your never the same, its something thats with you for life.

No, he's nothing like he used to be,he's very distant and stoic,almost to a point of seeming emotionless (in 30 years he and I have spoken/visited maybe 20 times),when my Mother passed away he sent a card (very brief) ,no appearance at the funeral..no phone call,same thing when my Sister (his daughter) passed away.
I do my best to not judge him,as I havn't seen near the brutality he has,nor have I had to go through anything like he did.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:There are other ways.

Fire Service, Police, Ambulance Crew, Charity Work.

This.

The decision though, isn't something you can really ask for internet help on bud. It's not our life, and it might be the wrong idea to go on someone's life experiences for your own.
The best thing to do is to feel it out, talk to a recruiter and see what you can find out. Just remember: Their JOB is to get you to sign on the dotted line. They're not there to be your friend and coach you through everything. Some recruiters will be up front about it and answer you honestly. Others might not have that same moral fiber, and lie their ass off to get you in.

But going by what you've said...
If you're anti-war, you won't fit in. If you're fearful for your own life--you won't fit in well.
It's really that simple.

But if you want to be a journalist/freelance writer...there's a reason it's hard to break into. There's plenty of people who want to a fairly slack job like that. However, if you REALLY want a job that allows you to give something back...
Do what MDG suggested. Look into the police, look into EMT training, look into nursing, look into firefighting. They're rewarding jobs, if you have a needy streak for patriotism.

Do some research and make an informed decision. See: http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/army/Jobs/

Not all jobs in the military are combat oriented, and by no means does joining mean you will have to kill someone. I was in the US Army for 14 years and I was never put into a position where I had to kill someone. And I saw deployments to the Balkans, Kuwait, and Iraq.

You know what my reason for joining was? I wanted to get away from home and didn't know what I wanted to do. And when people say learn a trade, they don't mean learning how to lay bricks or pipe, or working on an engine. Some military jobs will get you computer certifications, business management skills, engineering skills, and communication skills.

Seriously, if it is on your mind, take a hard look at the opportunities they offer and ask some people who are actually in the AUS armed forces what it is like. Not a recruiter.

Yes it is....

Note that everything I know about the military is learnt from the documentary 'Starship Troopers'.
Watch it so you learn to kill bugs good.

Cheese Elemental wrote:Ugh, I don't want to learn a trade. I'd honestly rather be getting shot at in Afghanistan than laying bricks or fixing pipes.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with laying bricks or fixing pipes. Sounds like you have an attitude to me. To be honest I don't think the military is a good fit for you. You could easily end up doing something along the same lines.

G

And who didn't like building forts as a child?

Even soldiers question themselves if military was right for them.

If you have any doubt ( hence this thread )
then no military is NOT for you.

Its ironic really ( not just towards you ) , we grow up seeking freedom to do what we want , we defy what people tells us to do.

Yet you want to dive right into the military and obey orders like a good dog.

Its... just not suited for you really.

Whats going to happen ( the reality )

You will go into the military thinking its like some sort of Holy Crusade from God , that you are fighting for freedom , for rights.
Some where along the line you'll either realize wars are anything but a holy war , where there are really no difference between terrorist and freedom fighters.
Who is the opressed and who is the oppresser.

At the end of the day , you are just fighting for bunch of power hungry politicians.

Cheese, I'm guessing you've finished Year 12 recently, right? Wait for your HSC results, then decide if you can't get into the uni course you want. Although, I'm under the impression that it might be too late for the uni course...

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:Cheese, I'm guessing you've finished Year 12 recently, right? Wait for your HSC results, then decide if you can't get into the uni course you want. Although, I'm under the impression that it might be too late for the uni course...

No, I'm just about to finish year 10.

Cheese Elemental wrote:

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:Cheese, I'm guessing you've finished Year 12 recently, right? Wait for your HSC results, then decide if you can't get into the uni course you want. Although, I'm under the impression that it might be too late for the uni course...

No, I'm just about to finish year 10.

Why are you thinking of military already then?

Are there no professions that interests you?
You like warhammer? perhaps:

Arts
- Painter
- Illustraitor
- Sculptor

Writting Fluff

Game Designer

Cheese Elemental wrote:

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:Cheese, I'm guessing you've finished Year 12 recently, right? Wait for your HSC results, then decide if you can't get into the uni course you want. Although, I'm under the impression that it might be too late for the uni course...

No, I'm just about to finish year 10.

Ahh. Finish year 12 then decide. You have two more years to think about things.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Yes it is....

Note that everything I know about the military is learnt from the documentary 'Starship Troopers'.
Watch it so you learn to kill bugs good.

Would you like to know more?

LunaHound wrote:
Why are you thinking of military already then?

Becuase it has a lot to offer young men and women? It isn't unusual for young adults to think about it. It isn't as if people only go into the military if they have failed at everything else. He just isn't sure it is for him at this point and that is reasonable. It is a big decision and shouldn't be taken lightly.

LunaHound wrote:Are there no professions that interests you?
You like warhammer? perhaps:

Arts
- Painter
- Illustraitor
- Sculptor

Writting Fluff

Game Designer

Same problem, if not more so, than the one he is considering. You don't just get a job as 'sculptor'. There are thousands of people competing for 2 or 3 jobs. That doesn't mean it can't be done of course but you have to be smart about it. I have a friend who went to art school and got a Bachelors in Arts in Sculpting. He has won several awards and has aculptures here and there over town at key locations. What is his job? Car painter and auto-body repair. It can take years, if ever, to break into these kinds of positions, even with serious talent.

Cheese, I think your friends and family would know better than us if you've got a personality that could work with the military life. Listen to what they have to say.

In general, I'd just point out you've got a lot of freedom and you will be able to change lifepaths a whole lot over the next 15 or 20 years. If you want to join the army you can do so straight out of highschool, then look to tertiary education when you come back. You can also do it the other way around. Or you could blow off both and spend a year or two bumming around Australia or even overseas, then come back to join either the army or go to uni.

Just don't feel worried that you're unsure what you want to do with your life, hardly anyone really knows at your age and the ones who do are boring, boring people. Just remember that whatever you pick, it won't be the one and only choice you ever get to make.

dogma wrote:Are you a good student? Do you have any ways to fund a higher education?

You don't need a scholarship to fund higher education in Australia. We have a scheme where you are accepted based on your highschool grades and then government will pick up the tab, and you accumulate a debt as you learn (even then the debt is only around 1/3 of the actual cost of education). You are only required to pay the debt off once you earn enough money after completing your degree.

Kanluwen wrote:The best thing to do is to feel it out, talk to a recruiter and see what you can find out. Just remember: Their JOB is to get you to sign on the dotted line. They're not there to be your friend and coach you through everything. Some recruiters will be up front about it and answer you honestly. Others might not have that same moral fiber, and lie their ass off to get you in.

It's a little different in Australia, as we don't have anywhere near the proportion of our population in the army, so there's less pressure to get new recruits. As a result we don't need to set targets for recruiters. A few friends who looked into the army said the recruiters were almost more discouraging than encouraging.

I still wouldn't believe everything they say, but it isn't like the US where the pressure of recruitment targets means you're likely to be outright lied to.

LunaHound wrote:
Whats going to happen ( the reality )

You will go into the military thinking its like some sort of Holy Crusade from God , that you are fighting for freedom , for rights.
Some where along the line you'll either realize wars are anything but a holy war , where there are really no difference between terrorist and freedom fighters.
Who is the opressed and who is the oppresser.

At the end of the day , you are just fighting for bunch of power hungry politicians.

Luna, that is pure conjecture. I know I didn't go into the military thinking that, and neither did a lot of the people I served with.


The one skill you will get out of military service that will help you greatly throughout life, is self-discipline. The key ingredient in achieving anything in life.

A lot of you say that if he has to ask, then he shouldn't do it. I think if he has to ask, then he should do it. He wants to get opinions and information to base his decision on, which I think is key to making any decision that is this life altering. You've got two years to decide, Cheese, look into it and get all the info you can before making a decision. Also, a lot can change in two years. You don't know where or what kind of person you will be in that time. So wait and see.

sebster wrote:
You don't need a scholarship to fund higher education in Australia. We have a scheme where you are accepted based on your highschool grades and then government will pick up the tab, and you accumulate a debt as you learn (even then the debt is only around 1/3 of the actual cost of education). You are only required to pay the debt off once you earn enough money after completing your degree.

Christ, why didn't I get 'lost' there 12 years ago?

I knew there was a reason I wanted to go to graduate school down there. Well, that and women with Australian accents.

dogma wrote:Christ, why didn't I get 'lost' there 12 years ago?

I knew there was a reason I wanted to go to graduate school down there.

The scheme isn't often available for graduate education, and furriners have to pay non-subsidised, and pay up front. Hitting up Japanese and Indian students is how we keep the whole system working. It's still a lot cheaper than the US as our costs per student head are lower, but the difference isn't that big unless you're a resident doing undergrad.

Well, that and women with Australian accents.

Australian accents are attractive? The women are hot, I'll agree to that, but the accents?

sebster wrote:Australian accents are attractive? The women are hot, I'll agree to that, but the accents?

There aren't any Australian accents in Chicago. It is exotic and therefore enticing.