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So, due to some personal problems recently, I'm having a bit of a career crisis. I have a part-time job at my town's Blockbuster, but I might have to drop that next year when college (the last two years of school, 16-18) start. I wanted to be a journalist/freelance writer, but I hear that it's really hard these days and I don't think I'd get anywhere without a degree.

That's why I've started considering some time in the military (reserves, probably) after college. Men in my family, despite being 'academic' people, have a tradition of joining the military early in adulthood and staying on for a few years. Even my half-brother, a hardcore pacifist, signed up as soon as he could.

I'm just not sure if it's right for me though. I'm certainly fitter than I used to be, and I still have a couple of years to go (at a college with a free-to-access gym). So, Dakka, what do you think? Should I sign up for service and get things straight before moving on to university? I'm kind of anti-war (unless it's the best option), and I'm the kind of guy who fears for his own life, but there really aren't many Australian fatalities in the Middle-East. At first I though that frontline fighting isn't the only thing that needs doing, but I really don't have the skills (nor am I interested in them) to be a mechanic or anything like that, nor am I a good leader (so officer training is a no-go).

To be honest, I don't know much about how the military works, but I just feel that it's a good way to spend the beginning of my adult life.

Just don't die.

Would you have a problem with being ordered to kill another human being?

If so, then no, the Military is not for you.

PM JD121290 (UK) and JP400 (US) for military family perspectives.

The reserves dont seem like a bad idea, you get a sign up bonus, and it is less of a commitment then the full 4 year setup. You make less money in the long run but the continuing school is a good thing.

If you do like the military, then upon completing college you can make 2700 a month. Plus all the benefits that go with.

You may also get some journalism work.

I wouldnt go because your "out of options." There are always a way through dark patches in life, even if you need to work the corner a little bit.

You are unable to withdraw from a military contract, and the military mentality is forever, you can not undo any experience.

So go because you think its the best idea for you and your family, its up to you to figure that out for yourself.

P.S. Talk to your friends and ask them instead of telling your childhood buddy the day before you drop out of a top tier research school after completing the hardest things a university science program can throw at you...

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Would you have a problem with being ordered to kill another human being?

If so, then no, the Military is not for you.

Although this seems like an unfair question a first glance ("How can I answer that?") MDG is dead on here.

I'm probably going to join (US, though) through OCS after college, so if you enlist, I may be able to enjoy an all-expenses-paid vacation somewhere sunny with you.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Would you have a problem with being ordered to kill another human being?

If so, then no, the Military is not for you.

If there was no choice, e.g. a Taliban fighter pointing a gun at someone.

My grandpa was in the Merchant Marines during WW2 (he actually got pulled into the Navy later, due to the need for skilled men in the field); he came out of it with experience in engineering. I thought about joining myself recently, but I think I will stick to the straight and narrow instead... especially with the war and all.

If anyone has seen Mr. Roberts, the flick from the 50's, my Grandfather was on that ship (The USS Virgo). The guy he bunked with wrote the book/concept I think; Mr. Roberts was a character developed from stuff that actually happened on the ship.

Wait... the OP... right...

I don't think you are going to find a particularly solid answer for that here, and it is one hell of a commitment; even in the reserves.

My father went into the RAF straight after technical college; he became a wireless technician. Part of his motive was to avoid National Service. He also got a good technical education which he later used as a technical author in the electronics industry.

He was posted all over the world; Gibraltar, Aden, Ceylon, India -- this was the 1950s of course -- and learned a hatred of card games and foreign travel.

Cheese Elemental wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Would you have a problem with being ordered to kill another human being?

If so, then no, the Military is not for you.

If there was no choice, e.g. a Taliban fighter pointing a gun at someone.

But could you disassociate yourself from the action? The Military is often accused of dehumanising it's troops, but it's the only way you can not screw someone up for life. It might have been the only option at the time. It was most likely a kill or be killed situation, but even so, you'd still have killed someone.

I know I personally couldn't cope with such things. The Taliban aren't much more than Farmers with rudimentary training, whose general ignorance and lack of education are used to turn them into weapons for hate mongers and religious psychopaths. Unless training is exceptional, I fear that some part of me would still view it that way, and I'd end up with blood on my hands, no matter how judicious the killing was at the time.

I'm not saying only thickos or emotionally detached people are in the army by any means, just saying that I am most definitely not cut from the right cloth.

Cheese, It seems Im in the same year as you.

I see alot of people I know my age, thinking of joining the army, Because they have no idea what they want to do after they leave school.

I dont think you should join the army. Try an get a degree

I dunno. I really don't. I used to be fanatically opposed to that sort of thing, but... you gotta do what you gotta do sometimes.

From what I can tell from the Interweb, you seem pretty Intelligent Cheese.

If you wanna be a journalist, then get the degree you need.

Its better to stay in education these days. With the failing economy and dat.

Lord-Loss wrote:Cheese, It seems Im in the same year as you.

I see alot of people I know my age, thinking of joining the army, Because they have no idea what they want to do after they leave school.

I dont think you should join the army. Try an get a degree

You probably should wait a while, to be sure.

This is one of the biggest problems I had with High School; the lack of preparation for the 'real' world. It is pretty depressing to have most of my friends and acquaintances, that are my age, not having a clue what they are going to do over the next few years. Can't say I am that much better off really... but I have been thinking long term careers and goals, going on well past a decade now. At one point I wanted to do Marine Biology, sounded fun ya' know; but I decided to go with something a bit more practical. Ended up with Landscape Architecture... just need to finish this pesky degree now... .

Damn paper, telling me what to do with my life... grumble grumble...

Your Military service might only be a few years, but it lasts a lifetime if you get what I mean.

You mentioned that there aren't many Aussie Fatalities. Sure. Right now. But who knows about the next few years? No one predicted the 9/11 atrocity, nor that we would still be in Afghanistan 8 years later.

Trouble and Warfare can flare up anytime, and I would urge anyone considering joining the Armed Forces to contemplate this. Always assume you will see Front Line Conflict. Then, if you get through without a full on war zone deployment, you can count yourself luck rather than wind up gaking yourself due to an unexpected deployment.

Mate if your "kind of anti war" then the military is not right for you. I think you have to be 100% commited to want to do it.

I joined the Royal Marines after i read about the Luxor tourist massacre. I remember it clearly, i read the newspaper and it made me feel physically ill. It happened on November 17th 1997. I started my training on the 8th of November a year later aged 19.

I was filled with a burning desire to kill people. I was a teenager, it fired my blood, and that rage is what got me through the extremely difficult training.

Now im 30, i left last year. I feel very different, i dont think there is anything good to come out of my 5 tours, and i dont feel any better.

That said, 90% of the military arent combat troops. If you want to get into a trade, or something that you think could give you some real satisfaction, then maybe it would work out, such as working in a medical field or as an engineer or something, but you really should think long and hard about making such a big decision.

If it is simply a worry about getting gainful employment i would suggest you dont jump to any conclusions.

Im glad to leave school. The worst moments of my life has been in this hole.

Wrex, Im just gonna take a course which interests me.

mod: swear removed, just cos the filter doesnt catch them doesnt mean you should leave them in

My brother joined the army (the british one, actually, Royal Marines) and served in Afganistan. It's dangerous, sure, but not insanely so- western militaries are good at looking after their guys.

Is it a good life choice? I dunno, it certainly taught him how to keep his gak sorted and look after himself, but he also didn't enjoy some of the culture of the military until he qualified as a sniper. At that point people left him alone a bit more, but up until then it could be pretty tough. Lots of bullying and a fair amount of peer pressure to drink and act like a bit of an eejit around the town. From certain quarters.
Overall though his experience was positive, he got to go to some cool places and he learned a lot about himself and people in general. I think he finds a lot of what he learned useful even now, in his office job- lot harder to get intimidated by some middle manager after that.

I would say to you that in my opinion (which is based on my brother's experiences) you shouldn't join on a whim. Do some research, certainly talk to the lads on here who are in the army, and talk to your family members who've served.
My brother rated the aussies well enough though- especially for some jungle fighting stuff.
I hope this helps- I can pester my brother to register and give you some better advice too, if you'd like. I will say, you're quite young, and going to Uni is awesome . I went when I was 17 and it was the best time of my life.

Joining the miltary is one of the most difficult choices there is to make.

My brother joined the US Navy right out of high school and now he works for the FAA as an Air Traffic Controller.

My Uncle served in the US Army during Vietnam as an Infantryman.

My grandfather served in the US Army during Korea as an engineer [I think].

My great-grandfather served in the US Army during WWII as an Infantryman.

The reason why I'm telling you all of this: Every one of them had their reasons for joining. And every one of them wouldn't change it if they could. Simply put, if you are interested, you should research it as much as you can. Talk to every recruiter you can find. Research it as much online as you can. Find people who are serving now, and ask them about it.

Just don't jump into it un-informed. It will only make you hate it and bitter.

I have to admit that I also feel a sense of devotion to my country. It's been supporting me for my entire life, so maybe I should give something back.

There are other ways.

Fire Service, Police, Ambulance Crew, Charity Work.

Taxes.

Indeed.

Personally, I don't get the whole 'you owe your country' thing. I had no say in where I was born, nor do I have a say in whether or not I pay the taxes set by my Government.

You shouldn't feel the need to risk your life and or sanity just to repay some largely non-existent debt.

And it's your Parents who have supported you all your life (unless of course you are unfortunate to be parentless, in which case I apologise for the seemingly flippant previous comment) not your country. They assumedly paid their taxes, which would have paid for your education.

Well my country let me live here, didn't it?

It's a very difficult issue for me. I know that there are a fair few military/former military personnel here (jp400 etc) and people who don't even like the military (MDG), so I figured I'd get some good opinions here. My mother thinks it's a good idea, and my brother wants me to go along because he did and got through it just fine (although he is 6'5").

Besides, the army isn't the only option, right? There's always the navy and air force.

Learn a trade.

If I had my time over, I would have trained to be a plumber or a sparky or a carpenter or something.

You go self employed, you earn a fortune, you have a set of skills that go everywhere with you.

Ugh, I don't want to learn a trade. I'd honestly rather be getting shot at in Afghanistan than laying bricks or fixing pipes.

I don't so much not like the Military, as not like the idea of me being in the Military, whether through recruitment or conscription.

Just giving you a point of view from someone who only briefly considered the Military, in so far as once upon a time, I wondered how I might cope, with the immediate answer being 'I wouldn't'

If there was no choice, e.g. a Taliban fighter pointing a gun at someone.

Not allways as simple or easy as that mate, rules od engagement have changed from the old times, making things alot harder.

Also, its not just fighteres that will bear arms.
You will find most women and children will pick up a dropped weapon at thier husbands / fathers orders.
so, your no longer targeting a trained fighter, your fighting someone who was a civillian up until that point.
either way, its your ass or thiers, once the weapon is aimed at you and they refuse to step back you have no choice but to fire.

Also, its not the physical aspect of it that causes problems, one of my old unit was a fething great runner and regular weightlifter.
after a tour of iraq he ended up hanging himself due to the stress of it, so its the psychological section of it you have to deal with.
fitness wise, its easy, 99% of people will get in.

Just make sure you have your mind and heart set on this before deciding, there is no going back until you have finished your designated time.
also, due to constant changing on plans, the tours are messed up, people who were on leave got dragged back, newer recruits have been brought in with less training, its a mess.
I would avoid it to be honest mate, ive only got 1 year left on the paper, then ill possibly sign up for a few more depending on how things go.

Are you a good student? Do you have any ways to fund a higher education?

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Personally, I don't get the whole 'you owe your country' thing. I had no say in where I was born, nor do I have a say in whether or not I pay the taxes set by my Government.

You shouldn't feel the need to risk your life and or sanity just to repay some largely non-existent debt.

And it's your Parents who have supported you all your life (unless of course you are unfortunate to be parentless, in which case I apologise for the seemingly flippant previous comment) not your country. They assumedly paid their taxes, which would have paid for your education.

I'm not sure you can have legitimate gratitude towards a government; everything you get from one has been taken from other people. If it gives you money, it was taken from tax payers, if it gives you a service, it was bought for you with money taken from tax payers, if it lets you use some of the country's land the land was here before the country, etc. Compassion is impossible from a government because it has nothing of its own to sacrifice, so why be grateful to the government itself?

I can see why a person would want to "serve their country" though. It's not serving the government itself, but trying to serve the people of the country (who actually gave you the things the government issued to you) through the government.