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I need to get me a Cat of Doom and teach it to only kill HERETICS!

To be fair cats are usually a random occurance magically appearing on the table and scattering minis in random directions.

The BRB is fairly obtuse when it comes to such matters.

despoiler52 wrote:Can super heavies only be used in apoc games?
?

In general, that's the best place for them, but if your opponent agrees to it, you can do whatever you want. 2k points though is about the minimum you can go without a baneblade level superheavy completely upsetting the balance of the game, and your opponent should definitely be given a chance to optimize his list after he finds out there are structure points on the table. If you have more than 1 superheavy per side then you are probably going to be better off using the Apocalypse rules.

This was previously discussed here.
Simple answer? No superheavies, as that is no longer a standard game.
Long answer? Is in that linked thread.

To clarify my answer, that seems to have spawned a rather odd discussion...

The Forgeworld IA books are technically legal to use. At least according to (or so I've been told) a blurb in the front of them that says so. While some will contest that Forgeworld don't have the 'authority' to claim their rules as legal, it's really circular logic. The book would have to have been approved for printing at some point... if the studio didn't agree that Forgeworld should be game legal, it wouldn't be in there.

However in practice, it's worth keeping in mind that a lot of people do have an objection to having Forgeworld stuff sprung on them unannounced, simply because it's not as common, and they may or may not have ever seen the rules for that particular unit before, let alone faced the model on the table.

So from what I've seen both personally and from discussions online, Forgeworld effectively becomes 'opponent's permission'... regardless of what it says in the front of the book.

At the very least, the polite thing to do is point out before the game that you're using the Forgeworld 'Mk2 Uberdeathkillwagon' to give your opponent the opportunity to either read the rules or go find someone else to play who is using rules they're familiar with.


All of which is a little off track from the original question (which was specifically about super-heavies) which is why I didn't elaborate on it in the first place.

Yes, getting opponent's permission is courteous. FW is legal to use and any permission given isn't to bend the rules in allowing IA models and rules, but rather to have a game with your army (which is normally the case). I would expect the same if someone brings a completely cheesy army in a standard game, except that your regular selection of FW models would offer less of an advantage.

Ridcully wrote:I would expect the same if someone brings a completely cheesy army in a standard game, except that your regular selection of FW models would offer less of an advantage.

I agree that it's courteous to ask, if you have anything out of the ordinary. If it's all codex stuff, I have no problem with whatever the opponent decides to field, no matter how cheesy it is. I play at a club with a lot of tournament players that like to work out tough lists, within a codex, seeing as normally tournaments can have restrictions on what additional units (read FW) you can use.

Personally I play vanilla marines, Captain Shrike in lead with 10 pimped up vanguards (10 guys at 530pts) and a venerable dread in pod (AC - Hvy Flamer, armor). I have strong sentimental reasons for using the vanguards, even though most people laugh at how overpriced they are (until they experience them on the field), the dread is less than optimally equipped but has a motorized assault cannon... 'nuff said. I basically just build/paint stuff I think is really cool, and want to play with it, no matter if it's "good" or not.

Lately though, I've been getting a bit of flak for just how good my vanguards are, I mean they could be a lot better equipped, but along with Shrike (infiltrate or not) they do get the job done. Considering some lists I've met (even the guy who's been complaining lately) I don't think my lists are cheesy. I've been looking at some really cheesy lists/tactics though, but I'm sticking with what I love. That and I'm a slow painter and only play with figures that are fully painted, so trying new lists takes a lot of time and dedication in the painting department.

Asking permission to play a codex list has never really crossed my mind, as it's what I expect to face myself. Facing anything but, I'd prefer being asked for permission.

If one of my friends was to play a FW model or super heavy in a standard game I'd let them because they would do the same for me. I see no problem with it. Because if a player invests 500+ points into a model I can very easily invest 500+ points into many models and just focus on killing everything else.

As for the BRB argument, p.2, Rules section, last paragraph in the grey box:
"The most inportant rule is then that the rules aren't all that important! So long as both players agre, you can treat them as acrosanct or mere guidelines
- the choice is entirely yours."

That I believe makes FW legal.

insaniak wrote:
The Forgeworld IA books are technically legal to use. At least according to (or so I've been told) a blurb in the front of them that says so. While some will contest that Forgeworld don't have the 'authority' to claim their rules as legal, it's really circular logic. The book would have to have been approved for printing at some point... if the studio didn't agree that Forgeworld should be game legal, it wouldn't be in there.

That is very much a guess on your behalf.
I disagree. I don't think the studio "vets" anything from Forgeworld.

By your logic units from CC Services are legal because the intro say that they are.

Page 86 (hope I get the reference right this time) heavily implies that you use a single codex to pick your army from.
Ignoring that means that I get to cherrypick units from across several codexes to make my army.