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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/12/11 08:55:06
Subject: Help me with trukk boys.
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Executing Exarch
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@Grankobot: Well that is why people take things like lootas, deffkoptas, kanz, and kommandos. You put things on the board that the opponent has to sweat about, and is gonna have to worry about other then your trukks and such. A full squad of lootas or even two, could hit almost everything on that table, and cause some problems. 9 Kanz with GZs would force him to go after the kanz and keep them outta CC. Kommandos, esp. with Snikky, will make him fear the table edge. I mean the possibilities are endless, and the orks can adapt to almost any scenario. Maybe footslogging behind kans with some bikers would be better here. Even the tau will have problems with 120 boys on the table. I don't know what the answer is right now, but I will say this: I have never seen a list that the orks couldn't beat, and even beat well. If you are fluid in your preparation, tactics and strategy, and with a little luck, you can beat almost anything wif da boyz. Also, I love the maps and pics. How did you put that together?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/12/11 08:55:34
DR:80+S(GT)G++M++B-I++Pwmhd05#+D+++A+++/sWD-R++T(Ot)DM+
How is it they live in such harmony - the billions of stars - when most men can barely go a minute without declaring war in their minds about someone they know.
- St. Thomas Aquinas
Warhammer 40K:
Alpha Legion - 15,000 pts For the Emperor!
WAAAGH! Skullhooka - 14,000 pts
Biel Tan Strikeforce - 11,000 pts
"The Eldar get no attention because the average male does not like confetti blasters, shimmer shields or sparkle lasers."
-Illeix |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/12/11 11:46:05
Subject: Re:Help me with trukk boys.
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Major
far away from Battle Creek, Michigan
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Grankabot
1) the ork list is a bit strange. Three wagons + snikrot and kommandos would be more typical than two wagons and four trukks. Or you would just spam trukks outright and forget the battlewagons. As jeb said, a mechanized ork list will have either kommandos, koptas, or lootas. A kopta with a buzzsaw that goes first has a 42" assualt range and autohits S7 on rear armor after shooting twin-linked rokkits. Snikrot is the bane of Tau.
2) the trukks move 18" and the wagons move 13" with red paint. That's a 5" difference -- the trukks still have a 4+ cover save.
3) The lack of any terrain that blocks LOS is a big advantage to a gunline and I would certainly thank the tournament organizers for that table if I were tau or IG. However, if the ork player had lootas rather than snikrot he would certainly be happy with the table as well.
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PROSECUTOR: By now, there have been 34 casualties.
Elena Ceausescu says: Look, and that they are calling genocide.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/12/11 13:00:13
Subject: Help me with trukk boys.
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Fixture of Dakka
Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents
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Steelmage99 wrote:Dashofpepper wrote: Not to mention that any weapon range tends to go from 24" to 36", and anything less than 36" is probably unlikely to hit me because of my poor tactics giving me a 29" assault range.
You have said this a few times now. How do you figure that assault range?
13 ( RPJ move) + 2 (disembark) + d6 (run) + 6 (assault) = 22-27 inches
Or do you go;
move + road + disembark + full run + assault and say "thats a sure 33 inches of assault everytime"? (I know you don't  )
Or is it something in between?
I feel that Ghazghkull is mandatory in any mechanized list above 1,000 points, and that 1,000 points or less should not be mechanized, therefore Ghazghkull belongs in any army list with rims and hydraulics.
Trukk with Red Paint moves: 13"
Disembarking: 2"
Ghazghkull's 2" base: 2" (the back of his base touches the 2" mark giving you quite the disembarkment
Ghazghkull's Waaaugh!: 6" (auto-six, not D6)
Assault: 6"
That's 29" for Ghazghkull, 28" for every other ork without his big base.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/12/11 13:50:17
Subject: Re:Help me with trukk boys.
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Fixture of Dakka
Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents
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grankobot wrote:BIG POST
grankobot, theoryhammer has limited utility so I'm not sure how useful this is going to be but there are a few fundamental problems with the scenario you just outlined.
1. Your deployment and movement for the ork players presumes that the ork player is daft. I will NEVER run a fleet of vehicles up the middle of the board against a dispersed army. You've nicely spread your army across a wide front, and I'm going to happily oblige by scooting to an edge and taking a flank.
2. Terrain: If this is a friendly game, remember that the board should be 25% covered in terrain, meaning 6-7 pieces of terrain roughly 12" x 12" across the gaming surface (straight from the rulebook). If this is a tournament setting we make do with what we have, but THAT particular terrain setup is not likely to occur. You're created an optimized terrain board with a killing field in the middle. If I'm forced to play on a table like this...you can BET that I'm not dumping my trukks into the middle back edge of my table out in the freakin' open. Also, battlewagons go up front, not hiding behind trukks.
3. If this is a 1750 take-all comers list, in addition to those battlewagons and trukks (one less trukk methinks) you have Kommandos on your back table edge to worry about, and a single deffkopta. You're presuming that the ork player goes first, which means that my Deffkopta starts on the table. It scout moves up the board 24", flies over your Kroot, and on turn 1 assaults either your broadsides or your pathfinders. It'll tie up the pathfinders the rest of the game (eventually killing them), and tie up the broadsides for at least a turn or 2 (or longer). The real dilemma I'd face here is where to spend my Deffkopta. Snikrot and kommandos can deal with both the pathfinders and the broadsides by themselves, and I'd rather send the Deffkopta to go nuke your piranhas, but there's no guarantee that he'll come out on turn 2 to do so. I'd probably have it tie up your broadsides; I see those as the biggest threat. Turn2 or 3....Snikrot will come out, I'll have him join the Deffkopta with the broadsides, and with that setup, I'm going to have them multi-assault your pathfinders and the broadsides.
Either way, its safe...its SAFE to presume that your broadsides are a non-threat for the entire game.
4. Your piranhas blocking movement: I'm going to presume that while I took a flank, the piranhas moved over to join me on that flank. Since I decided to neutralize your broadsides on turn 1, I'm going to skitter 13" the OTHER way with my entire mechanized force, towards the table edge with your hammerheads. That puts me out of range of your pathfinders (sniper drones?), out of range for your piranhas to reach for turn 1 shooting, but out in the open for your broadsides to take a potshot at.
Turn1: Your shooting: 2x Hammerheads fire at me. As you stated, you want the battlewagon with the big mek in it:
3+ to hit: 66.7% chance to hit
4+ to glance: 50%
5+ to penetrate: 33%
Glancing: Things I care about: Immobilized, destroyed, wrecked. The rest don't concern me (although the big mek has a 50% chance to fix his immobilized result), 75% with a 5 point grot oiler...I don't always take an oiler though.
You get -2 for glancing, +1 for being AP1, +1 for being open-topped: You need 4+ to immobilize, wreck, or explode me. That's a 50% chance of doing so. Then, I have a 50% chance of ignoring it via a 4+ cover save.
Penetrating: Same as above: You get +2 for AP1 and open-topped, meaning a 2+ will do the trick. 83% chance of doing something significant, and a 50% chance to avoid it via a cover save.
All in all: You have an 8.3% chance of doing anything meaningful to me with a glancing hit.
All in all: You have an 9.1% chance of doing anything significant to me with a penetrating hit.
Statistically, I'm going to live through your first round of shooting unscathed....even with your peculiar terrain, and idealized army list. =p
Turn2 comes: 50% chance of getting Snikrot - I've already decided where to commit him. Despite your pathfinders being a non-threat and your broadsides being tied up, I play to table people, so I'm still going to commit Snikrot over there to make sure it happens. My army rolls forward to the screen of kroot blocking access to the hammerheads behind it and proceeds to drop 15 burna templates on them. Poof. The rest of my army drops small arms fire (big shootas from the vehicles) onto your piranhas, hoping for something to happen. Probably not, but it would be fun if it did.  Presuming that you moved them towards me to get next turn shooting, they're probably going to get boarding planked right now. It really depends on where you moved them to, and what's going on at this point of the game.
If Snikrot came out and has neutralized your pathfinders and broadsides, I'm comfortable separating trukks from the KFF to go kill your piranhas. If he hasn't, I don't want to put a couple of lone trukks into range of your pathfinders while they try assaulting your piranhas.
Needless to say, when your turn2 comes to shoot, you've got two hammerheads, a devilfish...and I've crossed into range of your crisis suits to open up with missiles on me, and maybe long range plasma. I'll cross my fingers and probably lose a trukk or two. I can live with it though - Half your army is dead at the cost of a couple of 35 point (45 with upgrades) transports.
Turn3 comes: Ghazghkull can cross 29" of space, the rest of my army can cross 28". I declare a Waaaugh! and everything piles into your suits, with some multi-assaults to put powerklaws next to your hammerheads; with the proliferation of burna power attacks, I don't need powerklaws on your suits.
If Snikrot hadn't come out yet, he's statistically more likely than not to have done so by now, and that'll deal with your pathfinders over there (or snipers?) Your kroot would have been backtracking to assist the suits because you saw my army going the other way, and they'd take two burna templates in the face if they were close enough, otherwise those would be power weapons to deal with the suits.
And...that's pretty much game.
This isn't even a "if the odds go my way" or "if I get lucky rolls" this is a certified, I can repeat this ad-naseum gameplan. This is what WOULD have happened if we had just played that game. A large part of why you would have lost is because you chose to deploy across your entire board. In doing so, you've given me the opportunity to do things like deny fire, neutralize your broadsides.
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If we turn this around, and I play the Tau and you play the Orks....
I should caveat that I would never have freakin' Kroot in my army, and I'm VERY unlikely to put hammerheads in there - broadsides are much better anti-tank, and I rely on physically obstructing firewarriors if needed, and my Shas'o with an airburst frag launcher and some flamers to deal with hordes....
But lets presume I play that same list:
I deploy my entire army into a corner in a tight box. Terrain favors a forward and flanking killing ground on the left side, so I pick the left side of the board. One kroot squad deploys in an upside down L across part of my front and down my left side (on the board edge) spaced 2" apart so that Snikrot can't come onto the board there. They'll get cover saves from attacks coming from anywhere but directly in front. The other kroot squad deploys in an upside down L down the other side, basically making three sides of an enclosed box. The back is open, but that's where my farkin' army is, lining the back table edge so you can't get to me there either. I'm not worried about the kroot not being in cover because those orks aren't exactly shooty, and by the time they get close enough to use pistols, I have other things to worry about.
This game would play out differently: Deffkopta can do what it wants - it can assault some kroot if it really wants to *laughing* in which case I'll destroy it. The ork fleet moves towards me at full speed....and then they're in range of the full arsenal of guns. The rest doesn't need explaining.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/12/11 15:52:21
Subject: Re:Help me with trukk boys.
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Regular Dakkanaut
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The kroot actually block off deffkoptas (or any fast moving scouts) from getting a turn 1 assault on anything valuable.
Kroot go 12" out from anything worth hitting. You can't move closer than 12" from any of my models during a scout move, there's no feasible way you can plonk your guy down in between my shooting units and my blocking units without being within 12" of something or other, so you have to stop in front of the kroot. What then? You move 12", you don't have charge range on a shooting unit. You move 24", you can't charge. That means my "useless" kroot, in addition to being a great speed bump, totally take the edge off of your deffkoptas thanks to being positioned in such a way that you can't move close enough to get a charge on anything but the kroot.
And honestly, kroot can beat one deffkopta in combat.
If I were planning for snikrot, my deployment would change a little bit. I'd use one kroot squad to line the board edge of the back left corner (and 22 dudes can stretch 66" while still maintaining coherency) and use the drones from the piranhas to keep the broadsides from being assaulted from their closest board edge.
Kommando threat neutralized. Yay.
Can your fire warrior speed bumps do all that? Yeah, don't think so.
As for spreading your units up, lol? I've seen the lists you advocate. They never have more than one big mek. KFF is 6". Do you have a specially modified 24" wide battlewagon? Because that's about what you'd need to keep your trukks in cover and no, the average terrain setup probably won't do it. Trukks are big. You have a lot of angles to hide with. I'm not going to let you set up perfect blocking areas at 12" and 18" in, because like you said, this is a "friendly game", which doesn't require me being stupid in your favor. Best case scenario - everything survives, you have a potential assault on anything in my army in turn 2. If you can turn all my shooting dice to 1s without me noticing maybe this will happen. The more likely case is that you'll wind up with some isolated pockets of walking boyz who will never do anything meaningful for the rest of the game. At least if they're blobbed relatively closely together I have to think twice before moving into rapid fire range, but if they're isolated I can pretty much count on wiping out a squad with no fear of reprisal.
Also, whoever used that unbeatable sword invincible shield analogy was right about you. Good grief.
You just spent about 9 paragraphs explaining how you could thrash a tau list with your ork army, and then took 2 to tell me how your inferior one could beat orks. You completely missed the rule about scouts and I have a feeling you missed the whole point to my deployment strategy for this scenario, which tells me maybe you don't play against serious players.
The term "big fish, small pond" comes to mind here.
Anyway, I said my bit. I feel I've made a very good argument, but I guess I can't back it up any more than I have without putting some plastic on the table (which I will be happy to do if you're around houston this summer)
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/12/11 16:00:54
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/12/11 16:11:29
Subject: Re:Help me with trukk boys.
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Major
far away from Battle Creek, Michigan
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...or you could just meet on vassal
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PROSECUTOR: By now, there have been 34 casualties.
Elena Ceausescu says: Look, and that they are calling genocide.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/12/11 20:55:08
Subject: Re:Help me with trukk boys.
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Fixture of Dakka
Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents
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grankobot wrote:
You just spent about 9 paragraphs explaining how you could thrash a tau list with your ork army, and then took 2 to tell me how your inferior one could beat orks. You completely missed the rule about scouts and I have a feeling you missed the whole point to my deployment strategy for this scenario, which tells me maybe you don't play against serious players.
*shakes his head*
I've said this before and I'll say it again....theoryhammer has very limited utility. There are so many variables involved that it makes this back and forth pretty useless. I responded to the scenario you put forth; figuring you to be knowledgeable about Orks, seemed like deffkoptas and kommandos are a pretty safe assumption to include in a list. Apparently you didn't figure for those - I have no idea why any mechanized ork player would run the list you just put up there on the table.
As for scouts...I don't have a mini-tape measure to hold up to the screen, but I saw a vast gap between your broadside suits and the kroot on the right side. You're welcome to tell me that you'd change your deployment, but like I said - theoryhammer goes back and forth and back and forth and ultimately is pretty pointless.
I *am* disappointed that you feel the urge to make guesses about the poor quality of people I play against as the only explanation for why I'm capable of winning. Let me counterpoint your inflammatory remarks with this: You're right.  I only play horrible players, who don't know how to deploy; there's no reason that you wouldn't school me.
Drive/fly up to North Carolina. We'll play a game. Beat me and I'll shake your hand and congratulate you warmly for teaching me something about my weaknesses and send you home as an all-expenses paid package. We need to play *for* something, so we can both toss in $100 or $250 paid by the loser for prize support / other. It'll cost you a full day's time if you take an early/late flight, and we can make the stakes what you like if you don't like the monetary suggestions.
I wouldn't have been offended if you were less offensive, but now the hackles are up. You're willing to lay into me as poor player without competition and no recourse but putting plastic on the table - here's your chance. Back up your smack as it were and it'll cost you nothing and net you a nice profit.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/12/11 21:23:52
Subject: Re:Help me with trukk boys.
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Regular Dakkanaut
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As for scouts...I don't have a mini-tape measure to hold up to the screen, but I saw a vast gap between your broadside suits and the kroot on the right side. You're welcome to tell me that you'd change your deployment, but like I said - theoryhammer goes back and forth and back and forth and ultimately is pretty pointless.
No need to change the deployment. The green rectangle on the tau side of the board measures the 12" deployment zone and there's a 6 and 12" measure on the top left (though I somehow deleted those and they're not in the second 2 shots). There's no room for scouts to land in between the broadsides and the kroot without being within 12" of something.
If I were deploying to guard the back edge with the small squad of kroot on the right, then the big squad would stretch down the center to protect against scout moves. They'll be out of cover, but that's ok because their most important job is during deployment.
I *am* disappointed that you feel the urge to make guesses about the poor quality of people I play against as the only explanation for why I'm capable of winning.
You brag about your ridiculous winning streaks and how you're on the verge of not getting any games because people are sick of losing against you, and then follow up with crappy lists and bad advice.
2 + 2
Drive/fly up to North Carolina. We'll play a game. Beat me and I'll shake your hand and congratulate you warmly for teaching me something about my weaknesses and send you home as an all-expenses paid package. We need to play *for* something, so we can both toss in $100 or $250 paid by the loser for prize support / other. It'll cost you a full day's time if you take an early/late flight, and we can make the stakes what you like if you don't like the monetary suggestions.
lol, yeah. My pride is so delicate that I have the need to make a road trip to defend myself in an argument on the internet.
I don't understand why the insinuation that you don't have any competitive games is so offensive - let's face it, the vast majority of 40k players are NOT competitive. Take a trip to the army list forums right here on this site and look at what people are running. It's not what you call ideal.
If anything, you should be proud to stand above the rest in your local scene - but jesus dude, that doesn't mean you don't have more to learn, both about your game and about taking someone else' advice.
Caught this bit from one of your earlier posts,
1. Your deployment and movement for the ork players presumes that the ork player is daft. I will NEVER run a fleet of vehicles up the middle of the board against a dispersed army. You've nicely spread your army across a wide front, and I'm going to happily oblige by scooting to an edge and taking a flank.
That makes sense. If you're psychic. If you get turn 1, you deploy first. What's the best way to defend against a shooting army when you've got a fast, CC army, especially one that wants to stick together?
You castle it. You castle it in a place where you can put an equal amount of pressure on me no matter where I put my dudes down, which means the middle. Or you could pick a flank and I could pick the opposite corner turning the 24" distance between us into closer to 40". Probably wouldn't work out well for you  Or you could deploy in the middle, and then react by driving down a flank? Um, please. Take an indirect route. I'm happy with that.
If you go second, it doesn't make a huge difference how you choose to deploy. The only way you'll reach my army reasonably intact is if there's a gigantic LoS blocking wall in the middle of the table. Of course, you could feasibly deploy second and then go first, but if your whole strategy hinges around rolling a 6 at the start of the game you're going to lose more than you win.
THIS kind of stuff is what I'm talking about when I say "bad advice."
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/12/11 21:43:07
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/12/11 21:53:13
Subject: Re:Help me with trukk boys.
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
Greenville, South Cacky-Lacky
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Dashofpepper wrote:
Drive/fly up to North Carolina. We'll play a game. Beat me and I'll shake your hand and congratulate you warmly for teaching me something about my weaknesses and send you home as an all-expenses paid package. We need to play *for* something, so we can both toss in $100 or $250 paid by the loser for prize support / other. It'll cost you a full day's time if you take an early/late flight, and we can make the stakes what you like if you don't like the monetary suggestions.
I wouldn't have been offended if you were less offensive, but now the hackles are up. You're willing to lay into me as poor player without competition and no recourse but putting plastic on the table - here's your chance. Back up your smack as it were and it'll cost you nothing and net you a nice profit.
Aw, hell YEAH!
THUNDERDOME!
TWO MEN ENTER! ONE MAN LEAVES! TWO MEN ENTER! ONE MAN LEAVES!
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Alles klar, eh, Kommissar? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/12/11 21:57:34
Subject: Re:Help me with trukk boys.
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Fixture of Dakka
Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents
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grankobot....I'm about to strangle you.
The initial response I gave is SPECIFIC to the scenario and terrain and deployment that you listed. YOU said how the board was set up, YOU said how the tau were deployed, YOU said how the orks deployed. YOU said who got first turn. I stepped in and said, "Ok, I'll work within the framework you've outlined, and here's how I'd play this scenario out."
You can't take the scenario you posted, the route to victory I outlined, and pick it apart with "What if you don't get first turn? What if they go first? What if they deploy differently?" This is a SCENARIO SPECIFIC issue for what you outlined. This is my frustration with theoryhammer and why you seriously need to stop attempting it.
I don't believe for a split second that I have nothing else to learn. I don't run around the forums here bragging about my winning streaks, or how I never lose....I *do* very, very well in every venue and the posts I've made are about how I can overcome this problem and make games more challenging; if you need to interpret that as epeen wagging to give you something to make a personal insult about that's your prerogative.
What's insulting about your posting is your ridiculous dismissal of a tactical outline with the response, "That would only work against stupid players, you must not play anyone good." I'm ALWAYS up for a challenge, and I'm willing to pay to learn things - that's what life is about. You pay for education and schooling, and I'm offering to pay for some more.
I prefer discussions and debates to leave personal insinuations out, and you seem more interested in tackling personal issues as a response to a game scenario than in addressing strengths and weaknesses of tactical advice. I'm out.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/12/11 23:01:56
Subject: Re:Help me with trukk boys.
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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grankobot wrote:Anyway, I said my bit. I feel I've made a very good argument, but I guess I can't back it up any more than I have without putting some plastic on the table (which I will be happy to do if you're around houston this summer)
Grankobot,
Those were great thoughts you put into your discussion, combined with really nice images.
I wanted to give you some advise. There are 2 rational reasons to debate online.
* To convince the person your debating that your reasoning is more sound.
* To convince those reading the debate of your point of view
When you start to move a bit to the personal attacks, you lose leverage on those 2 reasons. One might even say you attract more bees with honey than vinegar.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/12/12 00:59:50
Subject: Re:Help me with trukk boys.
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Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk
Wired into a deffdread
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grankobot wrote:Here's how I would fight mechanized orks....
Anyway, yeah. People don't take me seriously when I say I ain't skurrd of mechanized orks. This is why.
I wouldn't be scared of someone dumb enough to charge down the middle of the battlefield into the teeth of your perfect gun emplacements either. The KFF isn't the only plan at work in a mechanized list; it's the failsafe for normal movement and cover.
Just for beginners, any smart player will eliminate half of your shooting by racing down one side of the table edge to be out of range and/or hugging LOS-blocking cover. Then its his ENTIRE army of CC specialists against one third or so of your shooters. That portion of your army is gone and the orks now VASTLY outnumber you and you probably will be spending a turn just moving your guns to bear, at which point the trukks are moving again. This scenario doesn't include what happens if Deffkoptas scout move + shoot before your guns go, or if Snikrot appears behind your lines to multi-charge your gun lines or pop a tank or two, or if you deffrolla an infantry unit along the way.
So, yeah, you can prove your point in an unrealistic scenario, and I can math-hammer out how many kills I could get with trukk boyz against 1750 points worth of guardsmen with only lasguns. So what? A good player won't oblige you nearly that easily.
EDIT: Nevermind, DoP has explained it quite clearly. That's what I get for posting without noticing there's a second page...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/12/12 01:06:48
~4500 pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/12/15 02:38:16
Subject: Help me with trukk boys.
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Fresh-Faced New User
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I now have 5 trukks and 2 battlewagons and 3 looted vehicles. 3 deffkoptas and 2 warbuggies. I have ne dredds or kanz yet. I have no lootaz but I do have 15 kommandos with Snikrot and a few stormboys. Am I still going to get spanked. I also have a big mek with a KFF which might help but I think longfangs are still going to punish me. Should I always accelerate my trukks 18 in the first turn?
well I played my list and got killed by terrain and inexperience and although the KFF meant I was able to soak up two havoc squads, 3 rhinos and a landraider worth of fire. A squad of 20 'ard boyz made it across the table as did my nobz and a squad of shootas but I wasn't against a tau gunline. No army is unbeatable and specific scenarios will always knacker some armies. I don't want to play a mobile ork force because I think it is unbeatable (although that would be nice) I play because I love the idea and the fun. I want to be a better player and learn from everyone, including the people who say 'this doesn't work because...'. I enjoy playing well and not feeling like a dork, neither of which I have accomplished yet. EVERYONE here is more experienced than me so ALL advice is gratefully recieved.
Gunlines without Ghaz in the mix seem a bit more challenging. Any tips?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/12/17 07:11:43
cry havoc and let slip the poodles of war. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/12/19 08:17:46
Subject: Help me with trukk boys.
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Well we had a match vs Chaos. I learned a few things. 1.Battlewagons are cool and squads of 20 boys scare everyone.
2.Squads of 12 boys, even several at once aren't that scarey to space marines especially plague marines.
3. Nobody worries about deffkoptas (even squads of 4).
4.Don't waste Ghaz's waagh if you think you are going to win combat.
5. The elite maxed out nobz mob is cool and tough but a s**tload of points.
6. KFF is REEEEAALLLLYYYY cool.
7. Difficult terrain is a sod to charge through and losing all the bonus of the charge is horrible.
8. Being fearless kills your own squads (especially with orkish initiative).
9. Ramming with BW is fun, ramming with trukks is not fun.
2 questions though. How far can Ghaz move when assaulting? I assume it is 1D6
How far can a vehicle move and still enable it's passengers to fire? I assume 12" for fast and open topped. How about for BW? I couldn't find the page that explains it. Automatically Appended Next Post: olympia wrote:Grankabot
A kopta with a buzzsaw that goes first has a 42" assualt range and autohits S7 on rear armor after shooting twin-linked rokkits.
How do you work that out? Scout 12" +move 12" then assault 6"isn't that only 30" ?
Sorry to be asking stuff that everyone else knows.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/12/19 08:23:41
cry havoc and let slip the poodles of war. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/12/19 10:50:11
Subject: Re:Help me with trukk boys.
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Major
far away from Battle Creek, Michigan
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poodle,
as per the rule FAQ, units with scout are allowed to turbo-boost 24" their scout move if they have 'turbo-boost.' You have to stay 18" away from an enemy, but T1 you move 12" and assault 6". If you opponent is concerned that you have moved closer than 18" to a unit with your scout move then offer to measure it.
You mention that assaulting into cover loses the charge bonus. Actually, you attack at initiative one but you still gain the extra point of strength from furious charge and the extra attack for charging.
Also, only tanks may ram, not a trukk even if it has reinforced ram. A reinforced ram allows a trukk to tank shock but not ram. Some will disagree with this interpretation so be sure to sort it out before the game.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/12/19 10:51:46
PROSECUTOR: By now, there have been 34 casualties.
Elena Ceausescu says: Look, and that they are calling genocide.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/12/20 02:05:52
Subject: Re:Help me with trukk boys.
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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olympia wrote:poodle,
as per the rule FAQ, units with scout are allowed to turbo-boost 24" their scout move if they have 'turbo-boost.' You have to stay 18" away from an enemy, but T1 you move 12" and assault 6". If you opponent is concerned that you have moved closer than 18" to a unit with your scout move then offer to measure it.
You mention that assaulting into cover loses the charge bonus. Actually, you attack at initiative one but you still gain the extra point of strength from furious charge and the extra attack for charging.
Also, only tanks may ram, not a trukk even if it has reinforced ram. A reinforced ram allows a trukk to tank shock but not ram. Some will disagree with this interpretation so be sure to sort it out before the game.
That is pretty much true. But alot of people (including myself) like to ram with any vehicle that has an armor value (except walkers) Its just too damn fun to not allow. Other then that Olympia pretty much got everything on the nose.
Dashofpepper - I feel your pain man, he bashed me a few times, and swears they were not personal attacks. Its hard to not take things personal when someone insults your intelligence several times
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/12/20 04:14:29
Subject: Help me with trukk boys.
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Fresh-Faced New User
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I think they had defensive grenades? OK, I'm clear about the movement but how far can my battlewagon move and still have the troops inside shoot?
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cry havoc and let slip the poodles of war. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/12/20 13:39:45
Subject: Help me with trukk boys.
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Dashofpepper wrote:
I feel that Ghazghkull is mandatory in any mechanized list above 1,000 points, and that 1,000 points or less should not be mechanized, therefore Ghazghkull belongs in any army list with rims and hydraulics.
Trukk with Red Paint moves: 13"
Disembarking: 2"
Ghazghkull's 2" base: 2" (the back of his base touches the 2" mark giving you quite the disembarkment
Ghazghkull's Waaaugh!: 6" (auto-six, not D6)
Assault: 6"
That's 29" for Ghazghkull, 28" for every other ork without his big base.
Sorry for asking to a part way up in the thread, but what about a Mechanized Ork army without special characters?
Tournaments and house rules often try to lower the powerlevel of army lists, by restricting special characters somehow, or even banning all special characters outright. How then would your Mechanized Ork list look?
I mean, Ghazghkull is out, and with Snikrok out too, I presume that means that the Kommandos loose their appeal. So I was thinking something like this, but I'd very much like some advice on it still.
HEADQUARTER
-----------------
110 Warboss + powerklaw + attack squig + 'eavy armour + bosspole
90pts Big Mek + kustom force field + bosspole
ELITES
------
225pts 15xBurnas
150pts 10xLootas
TROOPS
---------
333pts 9xNobz
Painboy + Grot orderly
Powerklaw
Twinlinked-shoota
Waagh banner
Big Choppa
Big Choppa + kombi-skorcha
Big choppa + ammo runt
kombi-skorcha
9x'eavy armour
40pts 10xGrots + Runtherd
157pts 12xslugga&choppa + 1 nob + power klaw + bosspole + trukk + reinforced ram + red paint job + boarding plank
157pts 12xslugga&choppa + 1 nob + power klaw + bosspole + trukk + reinforced ram + red paint job + boarding plank
157pts 12xslugga&choppa + 1 nob + power klaw + bosspole + trukk + reinforced ram + red paint job + boarding plank
HEAVY SUPPORT
-------------------
105 battlewagon + reinforced ram + red paint job + big shoota (Burna boyz + Big Mek)
110 battlewagon + reinforced ram + red paint job + big shoota + boarding plank (Nobz + Warboss)
FAST ATTACK
----------------
45pts Deffkopta + Twinlinked rokkit launcha
70pts Deffkopta + Twinlinked rokkit launcha + Buzzsaw
1749pts
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The general idea being the same as any Mech Ork army, with the Lootas thrown in to handle opposing vehicles/hard targets and the Grots to screen them.
Any ideas for a list in a somewhat restricted environment?
*Okay, using the code tag to post lists was a bad idea.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/12/20 14:38:09
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/12/20 14:57:46
Subject: Help me with trukk boys.
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Yellin' Yoof
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Spiky Norman wrote:Dashofpepper wrote:
I feel that Ghazghkull is mandatory in any mechanized list above 1,000 points, and that 1,000 points or less should not be mechanized, therefore Ghazghkull belongs in any army list with rims and hydraulics.
Trukk with Red Paint moves: 13"
Disembarking: 2"
Ghazghkull's 2" base: 2" (the back of his base touches the 2" mark giving you quite the disembarkment
Ghazghkull's Waaaugh!: 6" (auto-six, not D6)
Assault: 6"
That's 29" for Ghazghkull, 28" for every other ork without his big base.
Sorry for asking to a part way up in the thread, but what about a Mechanized Ork army without special characters?
Tournaments and house rules often try to lower the powerlevel of army lists, by restricting special characters somehow, or even banning all special characters outright. How then would your Mechanized Ork list look?
I mean, Ghazghkull is out, and with Snikrok out too, I presume that means that the Kommandos loose their appeal. So I was thinking something like this, but I'd very much like some advice on it still.
HEADQUARTER
-----------------
110 Warboss + powerklaw + attack squig + 'eavy armour + bosspole
90pts Big Mek + kustom force field + bosspole
ELITES
------
225pts 15xBurnas
150pts 10xLootas
TROOPS
---------
333pts 9xNobz
Painboy + Grot orderly
Powerklaw
Twinlinked-shoota
Waagh banner
Big Choppa
Big Choppa + kombi-skorcha
Big choppa + ammo runt
kombi-skorcha
9x'eavy armour
40pts 10xGrots + Runtherd
157pts 12xslugga&choppa + 1 nob + power klaw + bosspole + trukk + reinforced ram + red paint job + boarding plank
157pts 12xslugga&choppa + 1 nob + power klaw + bosspole + trukk + reinforced ram + red paint job + boarding plank
157pts 12xslugga&choppa + 1 nob + power klaw + bosspole + trukk + reinforced ram + red paint job + boarding plank
HEAVY SUPPORT
-------------------
105 battlewagon + reinforced ram + red paint job + big shoota (Burna boyz + Big Mek)
110 battlewagon + reinforced ram + red paint job + big shoota + boarding plank (Nobz + Warboss)
FAST ATTACK
----------------
45pts Deffkopta + Twinlinked rokkit launcha
70pts Deffkopta + Twinlinked rokkit launcha + Buzzsaw
1749pts
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The general idea being the same as any Mech Ork army, with the Lootas thrown in to handle opposing vehicles/hard targets and the Grots to screen them.
Any ideas for a list in a somewhat restricted environment?
*Okay, using the code tag to post lists was a bad idea. 
Spiky Norman: If i were you i would repost that in a new topic. Either in Army Tactics, or Army lists. you'd get WAY more feed back there.
Automatically Appended Next Post: poodle wrote:I think they had defensive grenades? OK, I'm clear about the movement but how far can my battlewagon move and still have the troops inside shoot?
I am not sure on this one. I would think about the same as a trukk, but i could be wrong. We will have to wait on the more experienced players to weigh in.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/12/20 14:59:40
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/12/21 01:01:54
Subject: Re:Help me with trukk boys.
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Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk
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I'm not experienced, but as far as I read the rules passengers in a BW can only shoot if it moves up to 6". This apparently goes for all vehicles, whether fast, open-topped or neither.
Rulebook, page 66, "Fire points":
"Models firing from a vehicle count as moving if the vehicle moves, and may not fire at all if the vehicle moved at Cruising speed that turn".
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Paintin' the green tide... one Ork at a time. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/12/21 17:15:00
Subject: Re:Help me with trukk boys.
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Stabbin' Skarboy
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Personally I am just not a fan of trukk boyz. Battlewagon spam yes, trukks not so much, especially with space wolf popularity atm. Typical results when a trukk boyz unit charges a grey hunters unit is a 3 dead marines and a wiped out trukk squad. Also, I've never been beaten by an Ork trukk list, no matter what army I was playing, so I may be biased. I also personally haven't seen any trukk lists do well at big tournaments like 'ard boyz, but then again at that point level you can't field enough trukks even if you wanted to.
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