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FlingitNow wrote:

Suppose that a GUO(160pts) has a duel with a trygon. He hit you on 3+, wound on 2+.You hit him on 4+, wound on 4+, and he has 4+ isv.

Firstly we're both hitting on 4s but I get a re-roll, I have 7 attacks on the charge (I'm faster and have better ranged weapons so will get the charge) at S7 so I wound on a 3+. He only has 4 attacks and just 5 wounds. I strike first and you are ignoring the 12 shots I get to take at him before charging in... Why does he wound on a 2+ he's S6?

He should be 3 wounds down before he even gets his first attack assuming I have not shot at him or wounded him at all before (again I have an 18" shooting attack that is assault 12).

I had forgotten about the doubles but that is why this list need so many Tervigons. They are no slower than most other things in the army and you forget the Trygons!

Just for clarification, GUO will do serious work on a tervigon or a trygon prime.

GUO is WS6 so he will hit on 3+ and with noxious touch, wound on 2+, for both Tyrgon Primes and Tervigons.

Tervigons will hit on 4+ and wound on 4+. Also, smart daemon players always give GUO defensive grenades so 3 attacks, always.

Tyrgon Primes are WS5 so hit on 4+ and at S6 wound on 4+. And even with 6 attacks, GUO still has a 4+ invulnerable.

If you plan to defeat daemons dont rely on your monstrous creatures to win, its the gaunts and the large numbers that will kill daemons.

Honestly in all the 5th ed playing I have done I have not seen a single GUO played in a tourney... Ever.

I don't think its worth changing the list for.

No its not worth changing the list, but i have started playing daemons and they are the scariest monstrous creatures around. And i still believe that even with the new nids. And points should be made to show, your big things dont always kill their big things.

Except perhaps the swarmlord... he is dangerous.

Fateweaver is the scariest MC around.


As for GUO I don't think he has to worry since he will have hundreds of free tarpit units around to tie him up the whole game.


Here is the math for you...

GUO charges a unit of 10 guants surrounding the Terv.

Guants attack, 1/2 hit, 1/6 wound, 1 wound, 4+ save.

.5 wounds total

GUP attacks 5 attacks, 2/3 hit, 5/6 wound. 3 die.

Fearless 2.5 saves, 2 more die.


Yea hes a monster..... /sarcasm off

Clthomps:

You may want to consider both Nurgle's Rot and the Aura of Decay. At least you might be able to block Nurgle's Rot using the Shadow in the Warp. The Aura of Decay will cause automatic S2 AP- hits to every Tyranid model within 6", whether they're in combat or not.

I don't have a chaos codex in reach. When does the nurgle rot go off? Once on the nurgle players turn or every player turn?

If its only on the nurgle players turn then its not a huge issue. Seeing as the nids will get the charge 90% of the time due to fleet. (I was feeling generous in the math hammer above so I gave him the charge)

Its cast in the Chaos player's shooting phase. You may want to reconsider the Fleet thing because apparent its fairly restricted in the new codex as well. More to the point note that up to seven models in a Chaos Daemons list can have the Aura of Decay, three with Wings.

While I see that the aura can be a problem for the guants you have to remember the terv can spawn them when he wants.


I would just run up to said baddy barf up a unit and have them shoot and assault right there.

I assume aura of decay is a shooting attack so it can't be used in combat right?

That's the point both Nurgle's Rot and Aura of Decay, can be used in close combat!

well then it would be a problem for this list.

Lucky for him he will never see Nurgle army with seven models running decay.

Sure he will. Given that people will know that they need massive horde clearing capabilities thanks to Ork mobs, Imperial Guard platoons, and Tyranid swarms, they will be very much incentivized to bring the right tools for the job. These powers are just as effective against Space Marines and Eldar as they are against hordes because they hit automatically and can be used in close combat. Tyranid swarms will simply make the utility of such powers obvious.

I can also give the guants toxin sacs by having it on a Tervigon and then that GUO doesn't look so scary...

More to the point note that up to seven models in a Chaos Daemons list can have the Aura of Decay, three with Wings.

You can fit 7 such models in a 1,500 point game? What sort of size army would that be? Turning up peicemeal (as Daemons ALWAYS do) and not having much firepower are 2 things that this list would be very very fond of.

With this army I can throw out 5 S5 pieplates a turn each Trygon throws out 12 S5 shots plus all the guants with their fleshborers, your land in front of me and let me shoot you before charging you army really will struggle.

Oh yea I forgot the tervi also gives them counter assault LOL....

I agree that posion = game over, here is the new math hammer:

GUO charges a unit of 10 guants surrounding the Terv.

Guants get 20 attacks, 1/2 hit, 1/2 wound, 10 wound, 4+ save.

5 wounds total

GUP attacks 5 attacks, 2/3 hit, 5/6 wound. 3 die.

GUP is fearless takes 4 saves... 2 wound, and he dies.

Flingitnow:

That's another point about the Aura of Decay: You get to shoot with it when you land. Everything within 6" of the user gets hit automatically. It's easy enough to ensure that three or four Daemons with the Aura of Decay show up on the first turn, and then the other three or four come in where they're needed. Bringing them down in parts is only bad when you land them where they have to face the entire Tyranid army, rather than some isolated flank.

Three Daemon Princes and four Heralds would be easy enough to fit into 1500pts.

If you want to Great Unclean Ones and two Daemon Princes, that works too, particularly in freeing up points to add in screening units of Nurglings to surround them and screen them from Tyranid assaults.

By all means shoot the Daemons. They just get to shoot first and shoot better.

I don't know how a game between 2 generals of equal skill, 1 playing Nugle deamons, other playing Nid Guant spam would end. I think the nids get a very slight edge due to poison and speed, they are going to be hammering into a great unclean one from some distance out, speed bumps that will do a wound or two here or their with the adrinal sacks and poison. I don't think the shooting of nids will have much effect baring some amazing dice rolls, and 2 DP with wings counter acts lack of mobility..... alright I need to find people with these 2 armies and see this, that would one way or the other, be a very interesting and fun game to play/watch



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And with that math hammer, Does the great unlean one have FNP? Every other nurgly things tends to so I was curious, then with your mathhammer it should be draws in combat.

doubled:

You play Nurgle Daemons and you don't even know the rules for a Great Unclean One? Yes, it does have Feel No Pain.

More to the point, you assume players of equal skill, but you don't extend that assumption to using a skirmish screen to defend your monsters from his little critters in exactly the same way that he'd be screening his monsters?

Something I was thinking about while cooking dinner was a Chaos Space Marine army with Typhus in it. He can cast Nurgle's Rot without recourse to a psychic test, and a Daemon Weapon of Nurgle hitting at I5.

Or there's Ku'gath with his AP2 Poisoned Pie-Plates, but that's moreso something to cancel any Feel No Pain that opposing forces may use to cancel his own Aura of Decay.

My point is that Nurgle forces of both Chaos armies have the capacity for mass-destruction to provide a rock to the Tyranid Tervigon-backed paper.

I don't play Nurgle at all Nurglitch, just wondering match ups as I do in the dark recess of my mind.....scary place lots of space for rent lol. I myself don't like the Tervigon spam lists, not enough offence even with the Trygons, and you have the 44% chance every spawn to lose that ability, It is interesting, espeically for setting up on an objective in your backfield, but anything fast, CC oriented, or long range firepower will eventually kill it. Also using the couple ways to instakill the tervigon, force weapon, JWW, ect.


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As part of an army great unit, standing on it's own as a core of your army, not so much

doubled:

You're right: I read your post as as saying "I playing Nurgle Daemons" rather than "1 playing Nurgle Daemons".

Me, I'm still trying to figure out how to fit my previous army into the new Force Organization slots.

New FOC? Are you talking about 5th edition or am i missing something?

That's another point about the Aura of Decay: You get to shoot with it when you land. Everything within 6" of the user gets hit automatically. It's easy enough to ensure that three or four Daemons with the Aura of Decay show up on the first turn, and then the other three or four come in where they're needed.

This is hugely flawed you want to try to DS within 6" of my lines? Great have fun when half you army mishaps. Not sure how you can ensure you have a screen when DSing and DSing within 6" and then DSing a screen even closer than that? Good luck I imagine I'd win without having to kill anything myself.

I'd castle so all you could kill with Aura would be the replacable Termagaunts anyway. 6" shooting is not great and when everything gets hit by 70 Toxin sac Gaunts it is game over and the big beasties wouldn't even need to get stuck in...

Bringing them down in parts is only bad when you land them where they have to face the entire Tyranid army, rather than some isolated flank.

Which only exists if I deploy like a moron and don't castle...

You 6" shooting will mean that you will either have to DS out of shooting range or you will do as much damage to your own army as mine with your shooting. I can then shoot and assault you wounding on 4s with something in the region of 100 attacks ignoring all my monstrous creatures, of course assuming I went 2nd otherwise you are looking at 150-200 attacks depending on how many you kill hitting you in the face, plus 75-100 S4 shots at you...

Not going to end well I'm afraid.

Looks cool. Totally different to the one I just posted too.
Probably 100X better too. I'll play a game later & see how it works out!

@ Nurglitch aha, baffled you with those tricky number things lol.

@ OP The armies you need to watch out for as I see it are anything fast enough to get around your guants and trygon like mech eldar, anything with a ton of heavy weapon at long range, and anything with an specialised assualt troop. Stealers, Nobz, ect will take out your Tervigons and make you take the wound on all your spawned guy.

@ OP The armies you need to watch out for as I see it are anything fast enough to get around your guants and trygon like mech eldar, anything with a ton of heavy weapon at long range, and anything with an specialised assualt troop. Stealers, Nobz, ect will take out your Tervigons and make you take the wound on all your spawned guy.

Stealers and Nobz can take out the Tervigons but only if they can get at them. Which would require me being dumb (which I'm not )

Lots of long range firepower? Well then you ninja and come up through the Trygon holes.

Fast moving stuff is the thing this army will struggle with most, I have almost nothing that can hurt an Eldar flying circus except weight of fire from Gaunts if I can get at rear armour or trying to get into CC. But to be honest the only thing in the 'Nid army that is any sort of threat against Wave Serpents is the Hive Guard.

In my Meta game there are very few Eldar armies around, but I am definitely considering adding Hive Guard for this very reason.

Hmm you say that know, then my battle wagon tank shocks through all of your little gaunts and I unload and assualt you, or just take a squadren of war walkers and guide them making you take a heaping tonne of saves. JWW just eats them at 24 inches away. And what exactly is going to come up through trygon holes on turn 3 at best, remember they are going to sit there and do nothing the turn they come in, and you spawned dudes are not going to be able to use them. And a trygon coming in by itself is a target, 15 lascannons, (which is in a list of a guy I play against regularly) and bring it down eat any MC if it sits for a turn going grrr arg. As i said not enough tactical flexability to a fast CC or heavy weapon list. Maybe you should take a Venomthrope and make sure that you make your tervigon big enough for it to hide behind to help survivability.

Fair enough, but on the Trygon Holes you can bring up the Tervigon and it can then spawn and the spawned unit can then assault.

True a Trygon by itself is basically a fire magnet and will die to any heavy weapons army (or Sternguard heavy army they have enough Dakka to stop me). You have to be careful where you DS it. I'm not sure whether to go Ninja against heavy weapon armies or put the Trygons on to fire magnet whilst my Tervigons and Gunats advance. What do you think?

I could take and Venomthrope and then add Regen onto the Tervigons for one of the Trygons but I feel 1 Trygon is not enough like most things you need 2 for redundancy. Otherwise I'm eating into my Tervigon estate which is the corner stone of the army and again I want loads because they are pretty unpredicatble with their spawning rate.