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Here's a new list based on Tervigon spam, so I get 7 MCs and about 50+ gaunts added a turn. Here's the list what do you think?

HQ

Tervigon 160

Tervigon 160


TROOPS

11 Termaguants 55

10 Termaguants 50

10 Termaguants 50

Tervigon: adrenal glands,Onslaught 185

Tervigon: adrenal glands 170

Tervigon: adrenal glands 170

HEAVY SUPPORT

Trygon Prime: adrenal glands 250

Trygon Prime: adrenal glands 250

Army Total 1500

first thing that comes to mind... you're going to have to paint a lot of minis

All I know is... you better save your allowance lol.

Yeah I'd estimate I'd have to have about 200 Gaunts available plus what ever is in the list (except the Guants as they're included above). Do you think it would be effective? It is largely based on close assault and needs to get its hands (claws) on the enemy.

i think it would work just through the overwhelming force of sheer numbers. at the very least it would be fun to play with/ against

I haven't read much on the new MC's, but gauntspam would be fun, dunno about "effective" tho. One nurgle demon prince could easily kill your gaunts off (because you can't hurt the damn thing with str 3!), or an avatar. And mech lists would have fun focus firing down your MC's so you can't hurt their hefty armor. and everything I've heard on Trygons has been pretty negative... I'd have to see em in action myself, cuz I think they sound pretty rad personally (unless your foe runs around with instant death or force weapons a lot lol)

The idea is the enemy at first will concentrate on the Tervigons probably take out 1 a turn (they have 6 wounds each at T6 Sv3+). I'd keep the Onslaught one at the back for using the Power on the Trygons when they arrive so they can move run then shoot 12 shots (S5 AP5) and then assault! The MCs give me the hitting power and the numbers gives me the ability to overwhelm. I imagine a lot will depend on how many Tervigons he's destroyed by my turn 3 at the start of that turn I could easily have over 100 Gaunts already on the board and another 30-40 coming out that turn would probably do them in especially as by then I should have at least 1 Trygon coming in.

FlingitNow wrote:The ideas is the enemy at first will concentrate on the Tervigons probably take out 1 a turn (they have 6 wounds each at T6 Sv3+). I'd keep the Onslaught one at the back for usingthe Power on the Trygons when they arrive so they can move run then shoot 12 shots (S5 AP5) and then assault! The MCs give me the huitting power and the numbers gives me the abuility to overwhelm. I imagine a lot will depend on how many Tervigons he destroyed by my turn 3 at the start of that turn I could easily have over 100 Gaunts already on the board and another 30-40 coming out that turn would probably do them in especially as by then I should have at least 1 Trygon coming in.

Could work, not gonna say it won't, I think it really relies on the staying power of your MC's and weather or not your foe has something thats equally tough to kill. As I said, something like a nurgle demon prince would run through your gaunts pretty quickly. I'd say play test it before you invest too much into it, 100+ gaunts is no joke (monetarily)

something like a nurgle demon prince would run through your gaunts pretty quickly

He can only kill one unit at a time so if I don;t assault him that is a maximum of 55 Guants he can kill (assuming average unit size of 11). Whilst a Trygon would tear him to peices pretty easily.

At the moment this army is just a fun idea and I do want to see what people would make of it competitive wise. I do have other aries to build first and only so much time to paint and so much money to spend so it wouldn't be on the table for a while yet and I'd obviously try a 500 point build first and increase from there to see if it worked. Just wanted feedback on how competitive people thought is was and what they'd throw against it.

FlingitNow wrote:

something like a nurgle demon prince would run through your gaunts pretty quickly

He can only kill one unit at a time so if I don;t assault him that is a maximum of 55 Guants he can kill (assuming average unit size of 11). Whilst a Trygon would tear him to peices pretty easily.

At the moment this army is just a fun idea and I do want to see what people would make of it competitive wise. I do have other aries to build first and only so much time to paint and so much money to spend so it wouldn't be on the table for a while yet and I'd obviously try a 500 point build first and increase from there to see if it worked. Just wanted feedback on how competitive people thought is was and what they'd throw against it.

Not that optimistic...

Suppose that a GUO(160pts) has a duel with a trygon. He hit you on 3+, wound on 2+.You hit him on 4+, wound on 4+, and he has 4+ isv.

And 5 tervigons is too many, even for a tervigon-gaunt based army. If you roll multiple doubles(4/9 chance for each, is it correct?) in the first turn, you would got several MCs with no shooting and no enough speed to join close combat...and the most important, no other reliable units to escort these MC's into close combat.

Suppose that a GUO(160pts) has a duel with a trygon. He hit you on 3+, wound on 2+.You hit him on 4+, wound on 4+, and he has 4+ isv.

Firstly we're both hitting on 4s but I get a re-roll, I have 7 attacks on the charge (I'm faster and have better ranged weapons so will get the charge) at S7 so I wound on a 3+. He only has 4 attacks and just 5 wounds. I strike first and you are ignoring the 12 shots I get to take at him before charging in... Why does he wound on a 2+ he's S6?

He should be 3 wounds down before he even gets his first attack assuming I have not shot at him or wounded him at all before (again I have an 18" shooting attack that is assault 12).

I had forgotten about the doubles but that is why this list need so many Tervigons. They are no slower than most other things in the army and you forget the Trygons!

head on over to BOLS they did a really good review on the new nids etc

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/search/label/tyranids

Toss some toxin sacs and adrenal glands on the Tervigons - at least one, since what can make this army really effective is stacking up buffs for the hordes of gaunts pouring forth. And we'll see how the Great Unclean one enjoys dozens of gaunts wounding him on 4+!

The real challenge, I suspect, will be dealing with vehicles and mobile armies. Needing to chase down tanks with your MCs can be tough - the Trygons help, but thus will be a bit target for the enemy. I'm wondering if a better set-up might be to lose the two Tervigon HQs, use the points to get some more buffs on the remaining Tervigons (Catalyst, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs), and add in a Tyrant with a Venom Cannon (for some vehicle interference) and the upgrade that gives nearby units Preferred Enemy. You'll have a very scary force to get close to (with termagants able to take down more than their own cost in marines in combat, at I5!) And Feel No Pain will help give some protection in return for the loss of one MC.

Your numbers will drop, but suddenly everything you have will be much more dangerous, and I think that will be really key.

Toss some toxin sacs and adrenal glands on the Tervigons - at least one, since what can make this army really effective is stacking up buffs for the hordes of gaunts pouring forth. And we'll see how the Great Unclean one enjoys dozens of gaunts wounding him on 4+!

The termagaunts never get any biomorphs irrespective of what you give to the Tervigons.

Since it is free I'll take Cluster Spines on all the Tervigons so each throughs out an S5 pie plate .

Venom Cannon is only S6 that won't really help against Vehicles. Though the Zoanthrope with it's s10 Lance weapon is pretty frigthening (penetrates a landraider on a 3). Or do you mean te Heavy Venom Cannon which is S9 but a blast weapon with mixed with BS3 is not likely to hurt a lot of vehicles. Hive Guard are the best bet for taking on fast mech. But fast mech have to avoid 7 MCs which is not as easy as you'd think.

If the Tervigon take adrenal glands and toxic sacs gave those upgrades to their sqpawned nasties then yes you play would be pretty devastating but it doesn't work that way.

FlingitNow wrote:

Suppose that a GUO(160pts) has a duel with a trygon. He hit you on 3+, wound on 2+.You hit him on 4+, wound on 4+, and he has 4+ isv.

Firstly we're both hitting on 4s but I get a re-roll, I have 7 attacks on the charge (I'm faster and have better ranged weapons so will get the charge) at S7 so I wound on a 3+. He only has 4 attacks and just 5 wounds. I strike first and you are ignoring the 12 shots I get to take at him before charging in... Why does he wound on a 2+ he's S6?

He should be 3 wounds down before he even gets his first attack assuming I have not shot at him or wounded him at all before (again I have an 18" shooting attack that is assault 12).

I had forgotten about the doubles but that is why this list need so many Tervigons. They are no slower than most other things in the army and you forget the Trygons!

Noxious touch wound on 2+.

I supposed a trygon as example, not trygon prime...even trygon prime's shooting cannot harm a GUO. 12 shots, 6hit, 2wound, 0.5 hurt at average.

And since a trygon cannot charge the same turn it deepstriked...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FlingitNow wrote:

Toss some toxin sacs and adrenal glands on the Tervigons - at least one, since what can make this army really effective is stacking up buffs for the hordes of gaunts pouring forth. And we'll see how the Great Unclean one enjoys dozens of gaunts wounding him on 4+!

The termagaunts never get any biomorphs irrespective of what you give to the Tervigons.

Since it is free I'll take Cluster Spines on all the Tervigons so each throughs out an S5 pie plate .

Venom Cannon is only S6 that won't really help against Vehicles. Though the Zoanthrope with it's s10 Lance weapon is pretty frigthening (penetrates a landraider on a 3). Or do you mean te Heavy Venom Cannon which is S9 but a blast weapon with mixed with BS3 is not likely to hurt a lot of vehicles. Hive Guard are the best bet for taking on fast mech. But fast mech have to avoid 7 MCs which is not as easy as you'd think.

If the Tervigon take adrenal glands and toxic sacs gave those upgrades to their sqpawned nasties then yes you play would be pretty devastating but it doesn't work that way.

Hiveguards can do nothing helpful, when a LR with termies in it, driving towards your MCs.

Nothing.

Zoanthropes can do a lot.

Noxious touch wound on 2+.

I supposed a trygon as example, not trygon prime...even trygon prime's shooting cannot harm a GUO. 12 shots, 6hit, 2wound, 0.5 hurt at average.

And since a trygon cannot charge the same turn it deepstriked...

All I have to do is DS more than 12" from you. My list has Trygon Primes in it but Trygons have identical stats just no Synapse and half the shots. I was think 1 wound from the Primes shooting forgot fnp... The Prime will still get the charge and thus be favourite. And I've got 2

Also the GUO can't assault the turn it DSs either, but to be honest this arm would do exceedingly well against the piece meal attack of a Daemon army. Those tervigons will have plenty of time to crank out the swarm...

FlingitNow wrote:Or do you mean te Heavy Venom Cannon which is S9 but a blast weapon with mixed with BS3 is not likely to hurt a lot of vehicles. Hive Guard are the best bet for taking on fast mech. But fast mech have to avoid 7 MCs which is not as easy as you'd think.

Yeah, Heavy Venom Cannon on the Tyrant was what I meant - not great vs vehicles, but at least gives something that can help while you are closing in on them, and useful to continue the buff theme of the army.

FlingitNow wrote:If the Tervigon take adrenal glands and toxic sacs gave those upgrades to their sqpawned nasties then yes you play would be pretty devastating but it doesn't work that way.

Are you sure? I was pretty confident that they give those upgrades to all Termagants around them, whether they spawned them or not. That's really at the heart of what makes the Tervigon nasty - not just cranking out some more cannon-fodder, but making that cannon-fodder nasty in combat.

FlingitNow can you elaborate? I'm pretty sure what I saw in the codex allowed the Adrenal Glands and Poison purchased by the Tervigon to pass on to Termigant broods within 6". Also believe I read counterattack and LD passed on as well. With the new Space Wolf FAQ that was released, would equal 2 attacks (passing LD10) with furious charge bonus and poisoned.

I also wouldn't say a Trygon or Trygon Prime's shooting attacks can't hurt a GUO - I've had a Space Marine tac squad kill a bloodthirster in 1 round of rapid fire shooting. Just depends on the dice rolls. Trygon Prime - 12 shots - rolls good enough and you fail your invuls = dead GUO.

I don't remember the Daemons of Chaos special rules, but does Noxious Touch confer MC benefits? If it does - cool. Definately stacks it in favor of the GUO.

As far as termigants mobbing a Nurgle Demon Prince - T6 can still be wounded by Str 3. If they're within synapse range - so he kills 3 or 4 a turn. Then they take a couple of armor saves from being fearless - if it's a large enough brood, then can take it for several rounds. Thats providing he doesn't whiff with his combat rolls (and passes Warptime test on 3d6 from Shadows of the Warp).

Are you sure? I was pretty confident that they give those upgrades to all Termagants around them, whether they spawned them or not. That's really at the heart of what makes the Tervigon nasty - not just cranking out some more cannon-fodder, but making that cannon-fodder nasty in combat.

You're right I've only just got the codex and only read half the rule stopped reading after the benefit from it's leadership...

{quote]As far as termigants mobbing a Nurgle Demon Prince - T6 can still be wounded by Str 3.

Have you thought about giving them Regenerate?


With 6 wounds a piece you are going to get a lot of chances to gain wounds back.

I guess I need to have a look at the actual codex before I start spouting (sorry) but can the tervigons still get catalyst? Can it work on other MC's (is it prohibited to only gaunts?) to allow you to have a spider-network of FNP T6, W6 3+ mc's.

I would suggest adding two large squads of gaunts & a third mini-one. You may find lots of little squads harder to co-ordinate. Having two large squads to lead the assaults may prove easier.

A flyrant with a few buffing powers could happily replace a single tervigon to buff the rest, to a greater effect overall (although I assume would cost more than a upgraded tervigon...

Flyrant start at 230 points eek.

Catalyst can work on anything regenerate is 30 points per Tervigon. At the 1750 level yes that would be my first choice. However not convinced FnP is great for a T6 3+ model as so little will be wounding it that isn't AP2 or better except of course Tau.

No real advantage to the larger units of Guants as they will die very quickly and it is the replacement units that will actually get into battle and they will be 3d6 in size...

If have got my statistics correct, you would get:
1st turn ~30 termagants
2nd turn ~17 termagants
3rd turn ~10 termagants
4th turn ~6 termagants

Total 63 termagants in 4 turns, assuming that the enemy does not kill any non-exhausted Tervigon.

There are 216 possible outcomes with 3 dices, out of 90 are any kind of double roll. ~41% risk of rolling a double with 3 dices. Average total of 10.5 for each roll.
(http://homepage.smc.edu/mcgraw_colleen/math_52/dice%20roulette.pdf)

Your math is off. There are 96 possibles, not 90.

It's 44.4%

Drop a Trivigon for 2 zoanthropes perhaps ?.

well l counted then in the matrix. guess I missed some. But still it didnt improve the figures.

I think your maths is WAY off 5 x 10.5 is 52.5 not 30!

You have a ~45% chance of each one stopping so say 2 stop in that first turn. That is another 31.5 produced in Turn 2. Say you have 2 stop again then it is 10.5 and then 10.5 again assuming the final one stops on the 2nd turn of it being the last one producing. So I've had a total of 10 rolls to get 5 doubles (slightly worse than average). A total of 105 Gaunts.

Or another way 5/44.4% = 11.25 rolls = 118 Gaunts on average.

That's on average 100-120ish extra Gaunts not too bad in a 1,500 point game.

Remember I could also Ninja the entire army and have the Tervigons popping up from the holes vacated by the Trygons...

Upon playing a game or two with Tervs, I came to the realization that they should always have Catalyst.


ALWAYS!


If you have a unit of genestealers lying around why not give them a 66% chance of living small arms fire? Want to tar pit a killer unit? Give some free Terms FnP and let them fight it out for the rest of the game.


All for 15 points. Simply amazing.

Clthomps

Catalyst can be great but I have nothiing really worth using it on. A unit of 10 Gaunts? Not really going to effect much 10 FnP gaunts won't tarpit anything for very long whilst FnP on a T6, W6 Sv3+ monster is unlikley to help him against the fire he's likely to be receiving except Hellfire and Tau Pulse Rifles both of which are Niche enough for me to not want to spent 15 points on it in this list.

I'd consider dropping Onslaught for it but I've already dropped that (a long with 1 Gaunt) to Toxic Sacs on the HQ Tervigons.

You would be surprised how good FoP on guants is.

In CC the average meq squad gets 10 attacks, 2/3 will hit, 2/3 of those will wound. So 4 wounds total. 1/6 will save, 1/2 will FnP. So you will lose 2 Guants.

Now you attack with your 10 attacks, 1/2 hit, 1/3 wound. 2 Armor saves at 3+. One SM dies.

You lose combat by 1 but are fearless. Take your one save and FoP. You lose less than .5 guants.


Total SM <2.5 dead, Nids 1

Thats without a charge on either side.

Now with out the 15 point catalyst you end up with

SM 7 Guants 1


As the math points out the key to FnP is taking against those annoying fearless rolls.