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DC_Ravenor wrote:I went in store today and specifically I was told that you tank shock the pod it can't move it's immobile so has to do DoG which it passes because its fearless and so it is then hit by said tank and is destroyed/dies

that is wrong in so many ways.

Firstly - when Tank Shocked you must make a Morale check or fall back. You cannot Death or Glory if you fail this check. As the unit is Fearless it passes the check so either a)is moved out of the way by the tank or b) can CHOOSE to make a Death or Glory attack, at S6+2D6 (it could use a ranged weapon as well, but that would be...foolish as they are lower strength)

"has to do DoG which it passes" is a nonsense statement - Death or Glory is when you choose to attack the oncoming vehicle, you cannot "pass because you are feaqrless" as it is not a morale check.

Fishboy wrote:

Immovable object vs unstoppable force - an old question. The only reasonable way is to D6 it - on a 4+ the spore pod moves, 3- the vehicle comes to a stop in base contact with the pod. There is no RAW way to resolve the situation.

WTF?!?!? Not sure why this is so confusing but I am guessing people are thinking because it is a transport it must be a vehicle.
1). It is not a vehicle it is a MC
2). It is fearless so it would never fail the tank shock test.
3). It can do a death or glory
4). It can not move per the Codex (unless a special rule like the Mawloc rule affects it)
5). The vehicle can not stop on impassible terrain, which is what the Pod is

So your only real hope is to tank shock it, it fails to destroy or immobilize you and it dies. Otherwise you stop 1" from the model (a vehicle may not pass through impassable terrain unless it is a skimmer) so its pretty risky in my opinion.

The issue is that the Spore Pod's rules say it can not move, and that the Tank Shock rules say that if a TSing vehicle ends up on top of a unit, the unit is moved the minimum distance to place the vehicle. The rules are in conflict, and neither rule has superiority. Dicing off is the only fair way to handle it.

One is "the pod cannot move" the other is "the pod IS moved" - one is an action taken by the pod, the other is something that happens to the pod.

The pod is moved out of the way, as this does not conflict with the pods rules.

"A Mycetic Spore cannot move for any reason once it has entered battle." Being Tank Shocked would be a reason to move the Pod, but it cannot move for any reason.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:"A Mycetic Spore cannot move for any reason once it has entered battle." Being Tank Shocked would be a reason to move the Pod, but it cannot move for any reason.

The point is that an effect which causes a model to be moved (passive sense) can in fact be applied to a model which can not move (active sense). The relocation for tank shocking is phrased as "must be moved" rather than "must move" and would therefore avoid conflicting with the prohibition against (actively) moving.

solkan wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:"A Mycetic Spore cannot move for any reason once it has entered battle." Being Tank Shocked would be a reason to move the Pod, but it cannot move for any reason.

The point is that an effect which causes a model to be moved (passive sense) can in fact be applied to a model which can not move (active sense). The relocation for tank shocking is phrased as "must be moved" rather than "must move" and would therefore avoid conflicting with the prohibition against (actively) moving.

Solkan has it dead on!

The point is that an effect which causes a model to be moved (passive sense) can in fact be applied to a model which can not move (active sense). The relocation for tank shocking is phrased as "must be moved" rather than "must move" and would therefore avoid conflicting with the prohibition against (actively) moving

Heheh I play an online game called Call of Duty (been around for a while). We tend to try and run each other over in Jeeps causing our opponents to bounce off the jeep. Your quote drew a picture in my mind of 10 marines bouncing off the front of a TS landraider because they were "being moved" rather than having the smarts to "move" out of the way.

Someone said earlier that neither rule trumps the other so it comes down to the tourny judge or a dice off in a freindly game. I still think I am right (Big suprise huh ) but there is no real answer until it gets FAQ.

solkan wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:"A Mycetic Spore cannot move for any reason once it has entered battle." Being Tank Shocked would be a reason to move the Pod, but it cannot move for any reason.

The point is that an effect which causes a model to be moved (passive sense) can in fact be applied to a model which can not move (active sense). The relocation for tank shocking is phrased as "must be moved" rather than "must move" and would therefore avoid conflicting with the prohibition against (actively) moving.

Personally, I feel that the "for any reason" would override the Tank Shock rules.

We often hear that "specific overrides the general."

The Mycetic Spore's rules for movement only apply to the Mycetic Spore.

The Tank Shock rules apply to all instances of Tank Shock.

Therefore, the Spore's rules are more specific than the Tank Shock rules. (I really don't think that can be intelligently argued against; a rule that applies to one and only one unit in the entire game is, de facto, more specific than a rule that applies to all vehicle of the Tank sub-type in the game.)

I also don't buy the parsing of the language between passive and active voice. To me, it is an example of finding an easter egg; it requires needless over-examination of the rules and the inexact nature of GW's writing abilities.

The thing is....GW rules writing does indeed often require minute examination of the rules and precise parsing of the language used.

Move is an ability used by most units at various times during the turn, being moved is something else entirely. So there is indeed no conflict, the pod has no abilty to move itself however it certainly can be moved by outside forces.




Sliggoth

Specific > General where the language is the same.

The Spods rule says it cannot MOVE for any reason.
Tank Shocks say that the model IS MOVED.

Subtle difference, but key to understanding the solution.

What happens when a Monolith deepstrikes onto a Spore pod...... crap.

The table goes asplode.

why does GW make all these mistakes anyway?

They aren't mistakes, its just little things that people like to do every now and again.

DaKrumpa - first you roll oin the mishap table to see if the Monolith is destroyed. If it is misplaced or put back in reserves follow that.

If it is a "destroyed" result, the table collapses in on itself and the game is a draw.

nosferatu1001 wrote:DaKrumpa - first you roll oin the mishap table to see if the Monolith is destroyed. If it is misplaced or put back in reserves follow that.

If it is a "destroyed" result, the table collapses in on itself and the game is a draw.

If I'm not mistaken, the Monolith has an ability that pushes enemy units out of the way (if this is a lie, please let me know). This would mean that if it lands on a unit, the condition of being unable to deploy is actually false, as the Monolith can in fact deploy there, even though there is an enemy unit.

The fact that it says the Monolith is not destroyed does not mean other mishaps must still apply. It probably referred to different wording in 3rd edition.

beethoveN wrote:why does GW make all these mistakes anyway?

What would we do on a rainy Sunday afternoon if we didn't have all these rules to argue about? Go outside? Sod that for a game of soldiers!

I was told by a games-workshop Regional Manager that for all intensive purposes it is counted as impassible terrain and therefore cannot be tank shocked.
In simpler terms it is a cliff with guns as soon as it is deployed.

orksandcats wrote:I was told by a games-workshop Regional Manager that for all intensive purposes it is counted as impassible terrain and therefore cannot be tank shocked.

I am so glad we have a Facepalm orkmoticon now.


For the record, GW Regional Managers are, in general, dimwits who do not know the rules and exist only to make sure Plastic Krak is being sold, as proven now by the Regional manager being so wrong that it hurts.

Ignoring gwar for a few years, i am goind to reveiw the forgeworld rules for spores and see if any thing exists there.

Now back to you gwar... Yes i know the mangers are normaly quite intellectually lacking but to myself and my fellow players it was a quite logical solution.

The fact still remains that they know nothing more about the rules than my cat does, so their word is useless.

Gwar! wrote:

orksandcats wrote:I was told by a games-workshop Regional Manager that for all intensive purposes it is counted as impassible terrain and therefore cannot be tank shocked.

I am so glad we have a Facepalm orkmoticon now.

Whooaaa that facepalm is awesome!!

Gotta get one myself.

GG

thebetter1 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:DaKrumpa - first you roll oin the mishap table to see if the Monolith is destroyed. If it is misplaced or put back in reserves follow that.

If it is a "destroyed" result, the table collapses in on itself and the game is a draw.

If I'm not mistaken, the Monolith has an ability that pushes enemy units out of the way (if this is a lie, please let me know). This would mean that if it lands on a unit, the condition of being unable to deploy is actually false, as the Monolith can in fact deploy there, even though there is an enemy unit.

The fact that it says the Monolith is not destroyed does not mean other mishaps must still apply. It probably referred to different wording in 3rd edition.

Excpet it does - the rule speciifically stays "if it would be destroyed...." - now, this used to be automatic, now you need to roll for it. Does nto alter that it is a simple it...then statement, so you can only apply the "then" until you have fulfilled the "if". This means that you only move the models out of the way on a "destroyed" result on the mishap chart.

The fact it does NOT mention other results (yes, it could not, but that is irrelevant) DOES mean that other results apply - it does not override the mishaps table as it doesnt say it does.

in my opinion until this question is resovled, always form a death or glory with the mycetic spore when it is tank shocked to avoid unknown altercations.

But do Deff Rollas work on them?

orkcommander wrote:But do Deff Rollas work on them?

EOTFOFROFLMAOGG

<=D

orkcommander wrote:But do Deff Rollas work on them?

Why wouldn't they?

insaniak wrote:

orkcommander wrote:But do Deff Rollas work on them?

Why wouldn't they?

See aforementioned rage.

But seriously, Spods != Vehicle. Deffrolas work just fine against them.

I agree with Gwars ruling.